p.2 #1 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
IBIS added around 150 grams to the Sony EVF cameras. For M cameras' major usage pattern, it may be best to omit IBIS. I hope they also do a deep think about giving users discreet options to customise their EVF screens.
It's very easy to overdo the focus aids as well, their user base would prefer subtlety in this aspect of design. A little goes a long way, particularly in the first-to-appear transition model. Differentiation from S/N/C is highly desirable.
p.2 #2 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
I would have really welcomed this before I bought a Leica M11 but after learning to rangefinder focus, I think I prefer it to an EVF - nothing beats real-time feedback. I bought a Nikon ZF (and returned) and now a Nikon Z6III and it has its uses with AF lenses but manual focusing on it quite frankly bores me compared to just using my Leica M even with the focus aids.
I think an EVF-M camera will just lead me back to a proper AF camera cause why bother when the experience is so similar or something I welcome if my eyesight gets poorer from getting older. The only other benefit I can think of is lens calibration is annoying on the M11. It's a joy when the rangefinder and lens is perfectly calibrated and definitely frustrating when it's off.
I'm actually more curious what Leica is thinking for a M12 to justify the upgrade
p.2 #3 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
It's exciting to hear. I was just gonna keep using RF non-IBIS until my eyes and hands gave out, but now I have hope for a longer M ownership. Appreciate SL but Leica will always be M for me.
p.2 #4 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
Would love a high res EVF only M camera. Offering up “rangefinder style focus, as well as all the manual focus assist options that the Nikon ZF has (eye tracking, green box assist, trap focus, etc), would make for an excellent option.
Not loving the “no buttons on back” though. They should mirror the current M11 setup.
A few mentioned it would be priced about an M11? I would expect it to be much less expensive than the current M’s since the costly OVF and rangefinder are removed. A Q camera with beautiful lenses are much less than an M11.
p.2 #6 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
As long as Leica don't do away their classic M!
raizans wrote:
Is it too much to hope that once the EVF-M comes out, we won't have to argue so much about things that aren't really that controversial?
I for one don't really care about the tech, if anything the classic RF make me more engaged in actual photography just because of its limitations that forced me to be more engaged in thinking and be creative with how I use the camera.
p.2 #7 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
raizans wrote:
Is it too much to hope that once the EVF-M comes out, we won't have to argue so much about things that aren't really that controversial?
You know someone’s going to complain about the AF speed, don’t you?
p.2 #9 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
RichardPhota wrote:
EVF version could be fun to use but what is the point of not using rangefinder for manual focusing lenses?
You get to see what the lens sees, which means:
– 100% view makes accurate composition a breeze compared to a rangefinder.
– The same effective viewfinder size for all focal lengths.
– No parallax error.
– DOF preview.
– Flare shows up in the viewfinder so you can avoid it.
– Exposure preview.
– You can focus on any part of the image, so that you don't get focusing errors by using "focus and recompose" with the center of the view.
– Lens distortion is visible in the viewfinder.
– The lens will not block the view, regardless of its size.
Also, no delicate optical mechanism that can go out of alignment for no reason.
p.2 #10 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
+1.
No more investment in M bodies for me if the future is just an EVF camera.
tzhang4284 wrote:
I would have really welcomed this before I bought a Leica M11 but after learning to rangefinder focus, I think I prefer it to an EVF - nothing beats real-time feedback. I bought a Nikon ZF (and returned) and now a Nikon Z6III and it has its uses with AF lenses but manual focusing on it quite frankly bores me compared to just using my Leica M even with the focus aids.
I think an EVF-M camera will just lead me back to a proper AF camera cause why bother when the experience is so similar or something I welcome if my eyesight gets poorer from getting older. The only other benefit I can think of is lens calibration is annoying on the M11. It's a joy when the rangefinder and lens is perfectly calibrated and definitely frustrating when it's off.
I'm actually more curious what Leica is thinking for a M12 to justify the upgrade...Show more →
p.2 #11 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
it's a very good idea, I've been waiting for years for such a camera with the best matrix for M lenses. Nikon zf has two problems, the viewfinder is below 5 Mpix and the matrix is only 24 Mpix and it is known that the best for M lenses are leica M matrix
p.2 #12 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
This is interesting, as i have been wondering if the “Leica M body” buisness model has reached its plateau with the M11 (60MP, triple resolution,touch-screen, usbc, decent battery life, etc) parking the initial software issue..
Many people state 24Mp is enough, others say 40MP is the sweet spot, others say it is never enough lol?
In absence of an EVF, what other compelling updates could they do with the future “Leica M body” models to draw strong future sales?
This could draw both Q owners and current M owners to an “EVF M” model, it may also draw new EVF owners to rangefinder M models…
p.2 #13 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
Manson wrote:
This is interesting, as i have been wondering if the “Leica M body” buisness model has reached its plateau with the M11 (60MP, triple resolution,touch-screen, usbc, decent battery life, etc) parking the initial software issue..
Many people state 24Mp is enough, others say 40MP is the sweet spot, others say it is never enough lol?
In absence of an EVF, what other compelling updates could they do with the future “Leica M body” models to draw strong future sales?
This could draw both Q owners and current M owners to an “EVF M” model, it may also draw new EVF owners to rangefinder M models…
The mistake of applying capitalist logic to a product based on myth is precisely that: always looking for the next iteration. M models probably don't need to evolve any further, just as film cameras haven't and yet are still selling. An M with EVF is just a different thing, and maybe the only way Leica has found to sell more and more and close the gap between the Q series and this M-ish family, transforming it into a more mainstream product and keeping their revenues on the rise.
p.2 #14 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
Its been debated endlessly in the forumns. i dont think itll be groundbreaking though.... Remove the rangefinder in place of an evf is what it boils down to.
However if its a STACKED sensor like the z9 so itll be a zero lag & zero blackout free evf, and with an in built-in techart like L adapter to allow for AF, it could then well be a game changer. Espcially with aging eyes Leica fanboys like myself lol....Alhough am i wrong to say stacked sensors and evfs dont do well in low light?
Perhaps a digital ranfinder patch similiar to how fuji has a digital focus prism?? Interesting
p.2 #15 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
While I will PROBABLY buy one (I fall prey to Leica-itis and buy everything they come out with - then sell half of it), they could very easily goon this up. I hope they listened to users and judiciously picked the features that are wanted and not a bunch of useless stuff.
Yes, EVF (if the focus peaking works very well - a really solid in-focus indicator with changeable colors, etc), maybe IBIS, etc. IBIS will add lots of volume in terms of body and Ms are already SWaP (size, weight and power) sensitive.
What is exciting though is that Leica could come out with both new wide and long M lenses - 200mm+. Keep the body roughly the same size and use the same battery as the M11s (so tired of constantly changing batteries - they got it right with the Qs and SLs).
I do worry though that this will hurt Leica from a marketing perspective. Rangefinder M and Q sales would drop for what's already a relatively small sales volume. The new balance of sales between models will be interesting to see.
p.2 #16 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
I have it on the very best authority (my highly respected opinion ) it will not be a M camera, I just don't see them watering down the M brand. Rather I think they'll bring back the CL of sorts, maybe 40mp, tilt screen, and could be crop or full frame sensor. Sort of like an interchangeable lens Q.
p.2 #17 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
brick33308 wrote:
I have it on the very best authority (my highly respected opinion ) it will not be a M camera, I just don't see them watering down the M brand. Rather I think they'll bring back the CL of sorts, maybe 40mp, tilt screen, and could be crop or full frame sensor. Sort of like an interchangeable lens Q.
As I was reading through this thread, I was thinking... "Didn't Leica already try this?"
In many ways, the CL Digital is the camera that people are looking for, but Leica abandoned it just as the format was beginning to get some attention. While the CL Digital is an APC camera, it was designed with rangefinder styling and essentially used the UI of the M10/SL2 series cameras. Of course this camera was an autofocus body and designed to use SL/T series lenses, but it was a starting point for what might be rangefinder-type camera.
If Leica wants to maintain the purity, "mystique" and retro-functioning of a manual system, they should not mess with the existing M-series camera... sure an EVF would be nice, but this style camera with interchangeable lenses have not done as well as companies thought they would. Other than the X100 series... which in Leica terms is a budget camera... there have been the X1-Pro and XE fuji bodies, neither of which seem to be continuing in the Fuji line.
As for Leica, they could create an EVF body built around the CL design ethos, make it full frame, and create a few manual "M-style" lenses that could be used directly on the SL mount. As a selling point, they could release the "Street Shooter's" model with a manual focus L-Mount Summicron 35mm f2 (price it a the Q3... or slightly above level), and it would sell like hotcakes. Users of this body could choose to use the autofocus L-mount lenses or the few special edition manual focus L-mount lenses.
This would be a great second camera for SL-series users, M-mount users, or a logical upgrade path of Q users.
I'm not sure an EVF M would have the enduring devotion of M shooters, but I could be wrong.
p.2 #18 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
FINALLY some talk about which sensor will be out into an EVF sized M. After using/liking the SL2S/SL3S, 24MP would be fine for me. For MP chasers then they could offer low and high MP models just like with the SL cameras.
p.2 #19 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
for example, only a large touchscreen LCD without buttons."
This could be very problematic for me. I’ve not so far experienced a touch screen that is anything but inconvenient. Keep the buttons of the M11! Bumping touchscreens and changing settings without wanting to is an interface nightmare. Ergonomics are paramount.
As for Leica, they could create an EVF body built around the CL design ethos, make it full frame, and create a few manual "M-style" lenses that could be used directly on the SL mount.
I really hope it is NOT the above. The parallels with the CL and Fuji cameras are also badly off - they are all AF cameras, so not even slightly relevant. Just buy a Fuji or a secondhand CL. The whole point of this camera, and what many people seem to have been asking for, is an EVF camera that is small and works seamlessly with Leica M lenses. Obviously, to sell well, the manual focusing would need to be accurate, fast and intuitive, with an excellent and intuitive user interface.
I fear though that in one or two ways Leica will deliberately cripple it, or do the usual and stubbornly listen to no one.
