p.14 #1 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
steamtrain wrote:
I'm wondering:
When mounting this lens at an A7CII or A7CR, how much would it suffer from cut of bokeh at shutter speeds over 1/1000th using EFCS at f/1.8?
The "suffering" happens at wide apertures with any lens shot at f/2 or wider when using EFCS at high shutter speeds. Switch to electronic shutter at high shutter speeds if your camera doesn't have a mechanical shutter.
p.14 #2 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
philip_pj wrote:
Was there a market for a fast 28-45mm? They did it anyway, and will reap the rewards of critical acclaim at least, if not sales. It's an ART series with lavished attention in design and finish, where the 28-70mm is a DG DN Tamron competitor with attendant shortcuts built in.
My reasoning, if you can call it that, is that the three variables are: aperture, range and weight. So if (IF) they can replicate the image quality of this breakthrough lens, they have to vary the mix. I'm thinking aloud above.
I figure the main barrier to greater acceptance is the size and weight, nothing new there. If they could have done a wider range - which would gain them more sales interest - at even the current weight, they would have done so. But it would have become a Canon-esque 1500 gram item, for elite event pros.
Aperture does seem to be sensitive, even critical, doesn't it? And that is how they are promoting this one, and you see people's bokeh images here. But at 28-45mm there is real resistance too. So if they relax the aperture a little and keep the image quality over a more central range, that's my thinking for more acceptance.
Weight is a understated reason to nix a lens, but it's very real. If you have two lenses, one at 950g and the other at 650g, it's an easy choice. I want to see them go from a quality first angle of attack, trading off the variables to get the best result. This one is just too large/heavy for travel for one thing, and its range means you would be often swapping out other lenses. Zooms are very hard, and they are pioneering novel focal length ranges to see what happens. What would you want if you were in this market sector? ...Show more →
Well, from my point of view there was indeed a market for the f/1.8 zoom. Sigma isn't Voigtlander to just pull a weird design out of a hat and manufacture it simply because it delights their CEO. And now that the f1.8 exists, I think that changes the situation.
But hey, if Sigma wants to make another similar wide aperture Art zoom lens, I'm all for it. I would prefer f/2, though. A maximum aperture any smaller just doesn't seem right for an Art lens to me, but I guess they could break their own paradigm.
Me personally, I would rather see if they could make a 28-70 f/2 to rival or exceed the performance of the Canon RF lens but do it in a smaller and lighter package. I think that would sell like crazy. The Sigma 28-45 is indeed a great lens, but I did start to really notice the zoom stops before I want it to a lot of the time. Even 65 at the long end would be great.
Sep 25, 2024 at 09:06 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.14 #3 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
tsdevine wrote:
What samples would you like to see? Not making any promises, but if the opportunity presents, I can provide more. Just want an idea of what you'd like to see.
Logically I would compare it with the Sigma 28/1.4, CV 35 APO, and CV 50 APO, like I did in the first few posts in this thread. I have more apertures for those test shots, but didn't post them. I assume it's not just different apertures you want to see, but also different backgrounds or distance to subject?
I could also compare it to the Sigma i45 (whether or not that makes sense...but bokeh is one of its strong suits.)
No need for new tests as you have done a huge amount already and what I would like to see are things I think you don't typically shoot. I am particularly looking for examples of portraits from fairly close distances and confined spaces. For example, it was my partner's birthday this weekend and I think this lens could have been good for pictures of her blowing out candles on the cake and portraits of the family members there, etc. and it is bokeh in those situations that I am most interested in seeing. Fred sometimes has such shots in his reviews and I find them useful. I am sure such samples will emerge over time and there really is no need for you to do them unless that is something you would shoot already.
p.14 #4 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Yes, you are right......I don't do much of that type of shooting.
We have some other people posting samples here from the lens. Over time hopefully we'll see more. Fred seems to shoot more Leica now, although he still has E mount equipment. He might have a Leica L mount cameras as well. But this lens doesn't seem like something that would pique his interest in either E or L.
While the subject matter and style of my shooting doesn't lend itself to your desired usage, I will say that I think your assessment you surmised in an earlier thread will probably turn out to be accurate.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Tim,
No need for new tests as you have done a huge amount already and what I would like to see are things I think you don't typically shoot. I am particularly looking for examples of portraits from fairly close distances and confined spaces. For example, it was my partner's birthday this weekend and I think this lens could have been good for pictures of her blowing out candles on the cake and portraits of the family members there, etc. and it is bokeh in those situations that I am most interested in seeing. Fred sometimes has such shots in his reviews and I find them useful. I am sure such samples will emerge over time and there really is no need for you to do them unless that is something you would shoot already....Show more →
p.14 #5 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
It will be interesting to see if the rumored 24-70/2 GM comes to fruition. I think it would be heavier and probably larger than the 28-45, just due to expanded focal range. If it turns out to be smaller and lighter than what I'd guess (lighter than the Canon RF 28-70/2), then I'd wonder how much it relies on digital distortion correction (barrel at 24, pincushion at 70.....similar to the Sigma but probably stronger). I'd also wonder how much optical vignetting and cat's eye there'd be. I suspect Sony is trying to one up the Canon RF 28-70/2 more than the Sigma.
There are always tradeoffs....it's interesting to see what each lens trades off, as each manufacturer is trying to make the "right" set of tradeoffs for some target market they are going after.
The tradeoffs will never please 100% of customers though.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Well, from my point of view there was indeed a market for the f/1.8 zoom. Sigma isn't Voigtlander to just pull a weird design out of a hat and manufacture it simply because it delights their CEO. And now that the f1.8 exists, I think that changes the situation.
But hey, if Sigma wants to make another similar wide aperture Art zoom lens, I'm all for it. I would prefer f/2, though. A maximum aperture any smaller just doesn't seem right for an Art lens to me, but I guess they could break their own paradigm.
Me personally, I would rather see if they could make a 28-70 f/2 to rival or exceed the performance of the Canon RF lens but do it in a smaller and lighter package. I think that would sell like crazy. The Sigma 28-45 is indeed a great lens, but I did start to really notice the zoom stops before I want it to a lot of the time. Even 65 at the long end would be great....Show more →
p.14 #6 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
tsdevine wrote:
It will be interesting to see if the rumored 24-70/2 GM comes to fruition. I think it would be heavier and probably larger than the 28-45, just due to expanded focal range. If it turns out to be smaller and lighter than what I'd guess (lighter than the Canon RF 28-70/2), then I'd wonder how much it relies on digital distortion correction (barrel at 24, pincushion at 70.....similar to the Sigma but probably stronger). I'd also wonder how much optical vignetting and cat's eye there'd be. I suspect Sony is trying to one up the Canon RF 28-70/2 more than the Sigma.
There are always tradeoffs....it's interesting to see what each lens trades off, as each manufacturer is trying to make the "right" set of tradeoffs for some target market they are going after.
The tradeoffs will never please 100% of customers though.
p.14 #8 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Could anyone compare distance bokeh with the GM 35mm 1.4?
I am seriously thinking about replacing my Sony lens with the Sigma. But on the A7iv it is only a minor crop to 45mm.
For +450g weight im basically only missing out the 28mm range. The hitrate of my is like 100%, not sure how that Sigma performs in that aspect... choices.
p.14 #9 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
GoroMajima wrote:
Could anyone compare distance bokeh with the GM 35mm 1.4?
I am seriously thinking about replacing my Sony lens with the Sigma. But on the A7iv it is only a minor crop to 45mm.
For +450g weight im basically only missing out the 28mm range. The hitrate of my is like 100%, not sure how that Sigma performs in that aspect... choices.
I didn't take comparison shots with 35GM, but my impression of the Sigma is that, especially at 35mm, it's bokeh is not at the same level as top primes. Maybe because, it's the sharpest at 35mm, but bokeh does get a bit crunchy in my eyes.
I have a couple 28/35/45 comparison shots from the Sigma where I tried to capture bokeh / rendering (shot from the same distance though), but I need to compile them to post them.
Keep in mind, this is my personal opinion and I'm not trying to be argumentative, just providing my take on this.
Here's a non-extreme example, 28-35-45 @1.8 center of the frame:
p.14 #10 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
I can't be of much help either. I don't have the 35 GM.
Different lenses can have busier bokeh at certain distances with certain structure in the background. I think someone would need to make a direct comparison.
Even the 35 GM can look crunchy at times if you look at the test over on Phillip Reeve. It's a very sharp lens as well.
p.14 #11 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
I've seen worse than this from the Sigma as well...you did say it's a non-extreme example.
The lack of noticeable bokeh fringing is worth note. Busy is one thing, busy with bokeh fringing really draws your eyes to it.
j4nu wrote:
I didn't take comparison shots with 35GM, but my impression of the Sigma is that, especially at 35mm, it's bokeh is not at the same level as top primes. Maybe because, it's the sharpest at 35mm, but bokeh does get a bit crunchy in my eyes.
I have a couple 28/35/45 comparison shots from the Sigma where I tried to capture bokeh / rendering (shot from the same distance though), but I need to compile them to post them.
Keep in mind, this is my personal opinion and I'm not trying to be argumentative, just providing my take on this.
Here's a non-extreme example, 28-35-45 @1.8 center of the frame: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54023628794_5f96656b5c_o.jpg...Show more →
p.14 #12 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
mojoh wrote:
Interview w Sigma CEO on 28-45 T2 Cine & 28-105/2.8 DG DN Art..
Kazuto Yamaki is so proud of the 28-45 and this prototype does confirm my suspicion that it was cine grade to begin with.
The 35 GM I was using exclusively as my main. From what I remember the IQ is similar, maybe a touch sharper, but I don't really notice busy bokeh in the sigma even though i shoot distant foliage bgs sometimes. i guess if you dont need the 28, it might make more sense, but the 28 here is so good that it was worth it for me
p.14 #13 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
tsdevine wrote:
I've seen worse than this from the Sigma as well...you did say it's a non-extreme example.
The lack of noticeable bokeh fringing is worth note. Busy is one thing, busy with bokeh fringing really draws your eyes to it.
I'm really not trying to pick on the Sigma as I think it's an amazing and unique lens, with great bokeh for a zoom. I personally just don't believe it reaches the level of the best primes, when it comes to rendering smoothness. Of course, 35GM is also not the best at this, but then you can stop down and enjoy rounder bokeh balls ...
Anyways, here's a more "extreme" example:
Edit: I hate those comparison shots TBH, so a couple of "rendering" pics I snapped when I had the lens:
ƒ/1.8 45.0mm 1/640s ISO100
ƒ/1.8 28.0mm 1/320s ISO100
ƒ/1.8 45.0mm 1/80s ISO100
ƒ/1.8 45.0mm 1/125s ISO200
ƒ/2.8 29.1mm 1/125s ISO200
ƒ/1.8 34.8mm 1/320s ISO100
ƒ/1.8 28.0mm 1/500s ISO100
And here's one of the "non-extreme" comparison shots I posted crops above:
ƒ/1.8 45.0mm 1/400s ISO100
p.14 #14 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
I did not intend to come across as disagreeing. The bokeh is what it is.
The only prime I can compare it to is the CV 35 APO….which is also known for having crunchy bokeh at times. It is what it is, so your samples help inform decisions.
And the Sigma can't do f/1.4, so there is an advantage a faster prime has, that shouldn't be ingored.
j4nu wrote:
I'm really not trying to pick on the Sigma as I think it's an amazing and unique lens, with great bokeh for a zoom. I personally just don't believe it reaches the level of the best primes, when it comes to rendering smoothness. Of course, 35GM is also not the best at this, but then you can stop down and enjoy rounder bokeh balls ...
Anyways, here's a more "extreme" example:
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.14 #15 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
j4nu wrote:
I'm really not trying to pick on the Sigma as I think it's an amazing and unique lens, with great bokeh for a zoom. I personally just don't believe it reaches the level of the best primes, when it comes to rendering smoothness. Of course, 35GM is also not the best at this, but then you can stop down and enjoy rounder bokeh balls ...
Anyways, here's a more "extreme" example:
Thank you for these shots as I find them helpful as I begin to think about the bokeh of this lens. It seems to have a bit of outlining of the bokeh balls, but that seems about the worst of it. There are some cat's eye shapes as well but they don't extend too far into the frame. I think the bokeh is not bad at all for a lens that has this much contrast and resolution whether it is a zoom or a prime, but that is of course just my opinion as these matters are quite subjective. It is also a plus there seems to be nearly zero axial CA fringing in the bokeh.
By the way, that is a cute dog. Is it a Jack Russell? If so, I have one too.
p.14 #16 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thank you for these shots as I find them helpful as I begin to think about the bokeh of this lens. It seems to have a bit of outlining of the bokeh balls, but that seems about the worst of it. There are some cat's eye shapes as well but they don't extend too far into the frame. I think the bokeh is not bad at all for a lens that has this much contrast and resolution whether it is a zoom or a prime, but that is of course just my opinion as these matters are quite subjective. It is also a plus there seems to be nearly zero axial CA fringing in the bokeh.
By the way, that is a cute dog. Is it a Jack Russell? If so, I have one too....Show more →
Yes, it is. Thanks. A bit crazy at times .
And yes, the bokeh is really good. I think it's better than my Tamron's 35-150, and that lens is definitely not that sharp wide open.
p.14 #17 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thank you for these shots as I find them helpful as I begin to think about the bokeh of this lens. It seems to have a bit of outlining of the bokeh balls, but that seems about the worst of it. There are some cat's eye shapes as well but they don't extend too far into the frame. I think the bokeh is not bad at all for a lens that has this much contrast and resolution whether it is a zoom or a prime, but that is of course just my opinion as these matters are quite subjective. It is also a plus there seems to be nearly zero axial CA fringing in the bokeh.
By the way, that is a cute dog. Is it a Jack Russell? If so, I have one too....Show more →
But I'll need to take more pictures at 35mm. My (good? bad?) habit with zooms that I always end up at one end or the other and often forget about the middle.
p.14 #18 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Thee are some fine portraits earlier in the thread. In general, do you think people images need attention in post? See the images of the girl from this page:
p.14 #20 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
j4nu,
So as I was looking at the two super low sidewalk shots with the pup (Love that you got down that low!!) I was thinking "Thats some odd lens flare..." Then realized it was the leash
...
