p.12 #1 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
My comment was strictly giving you a reference to Sigma's list of discontinued lenses....no more than that.
j4nu wrote:
Thanks, didn't know that!
I'm not sure how this is related to my comment about cropping a wide fast prime to 45/1.8 equivalent but it's good to know nevertheless.
p.12 #4 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
1. We are fast reaching the point where we have many more lenses at more or less the same performance level - speaking of the best ones here. At that time, other factors will come more prominently into play.
'there is no improvement in sharpness and contrast anywhere on the frame as you stop down'
2. You can go too far though, can't you? In the design process.
Leica did exactly this with their self-proclaimed hero lens, the SL 35/2 APO - see below the loss of 10-15% of performance moving from wide open to f5.6, at all spatial frequencies too. Oops.
I would prefer a 35mm to be best where it is most needed, for almost all uses - at ~f5.6. Zeiss took a different approach and specifically detuned several Otuses and Milvuses - managers actually stepped in and ordered their designers to do 'rounded sharpness', not ultimate performance at wide apertures!
3. To be fair to our friends at Cosina, they use the *name* 'APO-Lanthar' to indicate these are their best lenses, as a class. They talk only about 'apochromatic design' and do not overplay the claim, IMO anyway.
Many lenses are just fine for LoCA, leaving aside Fred's chrome surface torture tests. I'd not like to see people overly infuenced by 'APO-ness' at the expense of desirable other qualities, no need to list them.
Leica SL 35/2 APO, 40 lpmm - f2: 90%; f5.6: 83%. Why stop down? Never mind the DOF, feel the bokeh!
p.12 #5 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
And Cosina are not really interested in the arms race of ultimate performance levels. If they were so inclined, they would win handsomely. They are effectively a 'Leica M and flow-on lens company' these days. Meaning, if it does not first appear in M-mount, it's not happening. Lots of design constraints there, like a throttled down venturi in a sports car's carburettors.
Their two most complex lenses are both much less elaborate designs than those used by Sigma. The 21/1.4 is a 13/11, the 110/2.5 is a 14/12 design. Sigma's 40/1.4 is all of 16/12, and 'features' an 82mm filter thread and 1200 gram weight.
A 16/12 APO-Lanthar would be a sight to behold, the 35/2 APO is a measly 11/9 (Leica repurposing, remember). The nearest lens they have manufactured (not designed) is Zeiss's 100/1.4, a 14/11 design. That one approaches perfection. But 86mm filters and 1400 grams.
We need the great lenses, even at the weight/size, for flow on design nous for future lenses of more modest proportions.
p.12 #6 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
I'm definitely not trying to cut down the CVs. More just providing comparisons. There are a number of people who don't like the wide open well corrected look. They often look at other lenses in the CV line up. (You are far more knowledgeable than I am...so I'm not really speaking to you here.)
At the end of the day, each lens has to be evaluated on its own merit. And you could have 3 people look at 3 lenses and rank them 3 different ways.
Just some fun little tests and comparisons. For various reasons, I just haven't been able to find time to do more actual shooting. But I still try to get out when I can.
I've usually gravitated to primes as I can learn them more easily than zooms. You get a feel for a lens, and then apply that knowledge when you use it.
These shots are sort of part of that process for me to get to know this zoom, which I find more challenging than primes.
philip_pj wrote:
1. We are fast reaching the point where we have many more lenses at more or less the same performance level - speaking of the best ones here. At that time, other factors will come more prominently into play.
'there is no improvement in sharpness and contrast anywhere on the frame as you stop down'
2. You can go too far though, can't you? In the design process.
Leica did exactly this with their self-proclaimed hero lens, the SL 35/2 APO - see below the loss of 10-15% of performance moving from wide open to f5.6, at all spatial frequencies too. Oops.
I would prefer a 35mm to be best where it is most needed, for almost all uses - at ~f5.6. Zeiss took a different approach and specifically detuned several Otuses and Milvuses - managers actually stepped in and ordered their designers to do 'rounded sharpness', not ultimate performance at wide apertures!
3. To be fair to our friends at Cosina, they use the *name* 'APO-Lanthar' to indicate these are their best lenses, as a class. They talk only about 'apochromatic design' and do not overplay the claim, IMO anyway.
Many lenses are just fine for LoCA, leaving aside Fred's chrome surface torture tests. I'd not like to see people overly infuenced by 'APO-ness' at the expense of desirable other qualities, no need to list them. ...Show more →
p.12 #7 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Frankly I'm a little bummed with Cosina, to your point. They seem to be a bit less interested in E mount. I would have loved a 28 in the vein of the 35 and 50 ALs.
philip_pj wrote:
And Cosina are not really interested in the arms race of ultimate performance levels. If they were so inclined, they would win handsomely. They are effectively a 'Leica M and flow-on lens company' these days. Meaning, if it does not first appear in M-mount, it's not happening. Lots of design constraints there, like a throttled down venturi in a sports car's carburettors.
Their two most complex lenses are both much less elaborate designs than those used by Sigma. The 21/1.4 is a 13/11, the 110/2.5 is a 14/12 design. Sigma's 40/1.4 is all of 16/12, and 'features' an 82mm filter thread and 1200 gram weight.
A 16/12 APO-Lanthar would be a sight to behold, the 35/2 APO is a measly 11/9 (Leica repurposing, remember). The nearest lens they have manufactured (not designed) is Zeiss's 100/1.4, a 14/11 design. That one approaches perfection. But 86mm filters and 1400 grams.
We need the great lenses, even at the weight/size, for flow on design nous for future lenses of more modest proportions. ...Show more →
p.12 #8 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
You've done some of the most worthwhile real world photography here. I just add these things for people who might be interested.
It's musing, nothing else. Most of the long term people understand most of it, but many do not. It's all a lot of fun, I agree. Not something to get your knickers in a knot over, for sure. Good day to you, sir.
p.12 #9 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Definitely nothing to worry about, not meaning to come across as bothered. I appreciate you commenting here! It helps me learn and maybe rethink what I'm saying or how I present something.
philip_pj wrote:
You've done some of the most worthwhile real world photography here. I just add these things for people who might be interested.
It's musing, nothing else. Most of the long term people understand most of it, but many do not. It's all a lot of fun, I agree. Not something to get your knickers in a knot over, for sure. Good day to you, sir.
p.12 #10 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
We have to enjoy ourselves! And learn from each other along the way. We don't want to fight a never-ending battle against encroaching reality, which is what happens when we get too wound up about things. Call it human frailty.
p.12 #11 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
j4nu wrote:
Thanks, didn't know that!
I'm not sure how this is related to my comment about cropping a wide fast prime to 45/1.8 equivalent but it's good to know nevertheless.
Maybe I misunderstood you.
You wrote:
“The thing is, there is no 1.4 prime you can crop to 45mm and get the same level of detail as this zoom at 45mm. The closest would probably be Sigma's own 28/1.4 but it's not much lighter/smaller than the zoom.”
My suggestion was, if I want an f1.4 equivalent of 45mm then I would not crop the 28/f1.4 to 45mm but instead the 40mm/f1.4 to 45mm (That way I do not lose as many pixels due to cropping). 40/f1.4 comes quite close to a hypothetical 45/1.4
Or you take any of the excellent 50/f1.4 if that is not too tight.
p.12 #12 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
Knut. wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood you.
You wrote:
“The thing is, there is no 1.4 prime you can crop to 45mm and get the same level of detail as this zoom at 45mm. The closest would probably be Sigma's own 28/1.4 but it's not much lighter/smaller than the zoom.”
My suggestion was, if I want an f1.4 equivalent of 45mm then I would not crop the 28/f1.4 to 45mm but instead the 40mm/f1.4 to 45mm (That way I do not lose as many pixels due to cropping). 40/f1.4 comes quite close to a hypothetical 45/1.4
Or you take any of the excellent 50/f1.4 if that is not too tight....Show more →
But you don't have the wide end then...
That was my point, if not made clearly , that the range of the zoom is so small that you could be ok by taking a fast wide and cropping to 45mm if needed... but there's no such wide prime that cropped would give you as much detail as 45mm on the zoom.
p.12 #13 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
I got you now: You were thinking of a SINGLE focal length which could be cropped to the focal lengths included in the 28-45 zoom and maintain comparable performance levels to the 28-45.
p.12 #17 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
If you know, you know. I think it is a sleeper lens.
ftllens wrote:
Lol this lens is so good I've been too busy shooting video with it. Literally one of the endgame lenses for Sony FE.
If DJI releases next gen 4D I'm gonna test it on there.
Sep 23, 2024 at 07:01 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.12 #18 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
tsdevine wrote:
If you know, you know. I think it is a sleeper lens.
Thanks, Tim for pointing out this lens. It certainly has me thinking. I was strongly considering the 35 f/1.2 Art, but this is only a little bit longer and lighter. I don't think in practice it would be any harder to use ergonomically. The range and aperture would be great for indoor events and portraits.
p.12 #20 · Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 DG DN Art Prime Comparison / Image Thread
.6 inches longer and 130g lighter, like you say, I doubt the handling would be much different. I guess it may depend on where the weight falls when comparing the two lenses. Looks like it's closer to the camera at the wide FL and similar to the 35/1.2 at the tele end.
One nice thing is that it's excellent prime sharp wide open, so you don't have the penalty one often things of when shooting wide open.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks, Tim for pointing out this lens. It certainly has me thinking. I was strongly considering the 35 f/1.2 Art, but this is only a little bit longer and lighter. I don't think in practice it would be any harder to use ergonomically. The range and aperture would be great for indoor events and portraits.
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