If only the files were unavailable for use or viewing for 24-72 hours after exposure to mimic a true analog experience. Maybe have a $10/per use unlock code to have 36 contiguous files available in 3 hours. A rush processing fee.
Take away the rear screen, and thus any menu at all, and charge you $400 MORE for it.
Leica says "lack of a display will help users focus on the elementary aspects of pictorial design such as composition, aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
We are gonna help you out, and you can give us $400 extra while we save even more money on a screen.
RWNPhoto wrote:
Take away the rear screen, and thus any menu at all, and charge you $400 MORE for it.
Leica says "lack of a display will help users focus on the elementary aspects of pictorial design such as composition, aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
We are gonna help you out, and you can give us $400 extra while we save even more money on a screen.
The extra cost is because of the low production numbers. I'm surprised it's only $400 more.
The menu is still there in the FOTOs app.
I take the opposite approach that Leica does when it comes to why someone would want to own one. To me, it's less about being able to focus than it is about not getting distracted. I can focus on the aspects Leica mentions with a rear screen, too, but I have zero willpower not to get lost in reviewing images while the world passes me by.
highdesertmesa wrote:
The extra cost is because of the low production numbers. I'm surprised it's only $400 more.
The menu is still there in the FOTOs app.
I take the opposite approach that Leica does when it comes to why someone would want to own one. To me, it's less about being able to focus than it is about not getting distracted. I can focus on the aspects Leica mentions with a rear screen, too, but I have zero willpower not to get lost in reviewing images while the world passes me by.
It's funny how Leica removes the LCD screen from their cameras to help us focus on taking pictures without distractions. Yet, our phones with their big screens keep buzzing and making noises, pulling our attention away.
I’ll be honest, I find the “D” models puzzling in much the same way I find special editions puzzling where the price is tripled or more just to make it a “collectible.” Want your reisssue Noctilux 1.2 in Silver? That’ll be an extra $42,000–thank you. I know—das Wesentliche. I even have an M11M which a lot of people would consider superfluous along side my M11. On both those cameras I can turn off the rear screen. But here’s the thing, my rear LCD is only a vague representation of final output. What appears great on the rear screen might fall apart when viewed on a larger monitor or, heaven forbid in printed form. And vice versa.
I’m also trying to understand a camera where many camera settings can only be done when hooked up to Leica Photos and making changes —through a small screen.
highdesertmesa wrote:
The extra cost is because of the low production numbers. I'm surprised it's only $400 more.
The menu is still there in the FOTOs app.
I take the opposite approach that Leica does when it comes to why someone would want to own one. To me, it's less about being able to focus than it is about not getting distracted. I can focus on the aspects Leica mentions with a rear screen, too, but I have zero willpower not to get lost in reviewing images while the world passes me by.
Don't really care. I'd rather have the older one WITH a rear screen, save $400 or more, and if I don't care to look at it (rarely chimp, especially if you want to imitate being a film shooter) I WON'T look at it.
I don't need Leica to not distract me from focusing on "just shooting"... while they fleece more money out of my wallet.
soarfm wrote:
I’ll be honest, I find the “D” models puzzling in much the same way I find special editions puzzling where the price is tripled or more just to make it a “collectible.” Want your reisssue Noctilux 1.2 in Silver? That’ll be an extra $42,000–thank you. I know—das Wesentliche. I even have an M11M which a lot of people would consider superfluous along side my M11. On both those cameras I can turn off the rear screen. But here’s the thing, my rear LCD is only a vague representation of final output. What appears great on the rear screen might fall apart when viewed on a larger monitor or, heaven forbid in printed form. And vice versa.
I’m also trying to understand a camera where many camera settings can only be done when hooked up to Leica Photos and making changes —through a small screen. ...Show more →
Very little about Leica makes either logical or financial sense. Yet, somehow it all works for many.
RWNPhoto wrote:
Don't really care. I'd rather have the older one WITH a rear screen, save $400 or more, and if I don't care to look at it (rarely chimp, especially if you want to imitate being a film shooter) I WON'T look at it.
I don't need Leica to not distract me from focusing on "just shooting"... while they fleece more money out of my wallet.
So what your saying is- The M11-D isn't your cup of tea?
RWNPhoto wrote:
Don't really care. I'd rather have the older one WITH a rear screen, save $400 or more, and if I don't care to look at it (rarely chimp, especially if you want to imitate being a film shooter) I WON'T look at it.
I don't need Leica to not distract me from focusing on "just shooting"... while they fleece more money out of my wallet.
RustyRus wrote:
So what your saying is- The M11-D isn't your cup of tea?
What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be anyones cup too tea... Why pay $400 more for no screen. Save $400 and get a screen and just don't look at it. But Leica fanatics are a different breed of humans.
RWNPhoto wrote:
What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be anyones cup too tea... Why pay $400 more for no screen. Save $400 and get a screen and just don't look at it. But Leica fanatics are a different breed of humans.
Can I ask you a question- You see from this thread, people are excited about it. Do you just wanna be a stick in the mud that you feel the need to tell people why they shouldn't like a product? Why insult people for no reason because YOU don't like a camera.
RustyRus wrote:
Can I ask you a question- You see from this thread, people are excited about it. Do you just wanna be a stick in the mud that you feel the need to tell people why they shouldn't like a product? Why insult people for no reason because YOU don't like a camera.
Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't know this was just a thread about people telling everyone why they would or should buy it.
RWNPhoto wrote:
What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be anyones cup too tea... Why pay $400 more for no screen. Save $400 and get a screen and just don't look at it. But Leica fanatics are a different breed of humans.
I don't see malice in your posts, but is a bit over the top to apply ones own value system to "everyone". I don't know any subject, thing, or activity where that holds up to even the most cursory examination.
It is a beautiful camera to look at and hold. It has a pure analog esthetic about it that many people really enjoy. Often based on a long history shooting analog cameras. Yet, between the high resolution sensor, and the Leica glass, it still produces digital image quality at the highest level.
It is a camera that many will find special, unique, and enjoyable to shoot. It can provide an experience that no other camera in the market, old or new can match. That makes it uniquely enjoyable for many. Enjoyment in photography is perhaps the most valuable specification a camera can have. For sure it is for me.
If we were to value cameras purley on technical specifications, and feature lists, there would be no Leica camera that holds up. The M11-D is not a camera for me. But I can appreciate the esthetic it provides, and am glad that my photography friends who see value in that have the opportunity to own a camera like the M11-D. It is as unique as they are, and that has incalculable value to me.
soarfm wrote:
I’m also trying to understand a camera where many camera settings can only be done when hooked up to Leica Photos and making changes —through a small screen.
Agree!
From the D series, I've only used the Leica M-D (Typ 262). It has no menu or settings to adjust and doesn’t support Wi-Fi, so there’s no FOTOS app. White balance is set to "auto", metering is "center average" and the file type is "dng" That's it. When you import your DNG files into LR, you can choose from the camera's WB AUTO setting or change to any other presets or manual values. In my opinion, the M60 and M-D offer the closest experience to shooting with film in a digital camera.
Starting with the M10-D,, Leica added Wi-Fi and options to adjust settings like white balance via a phone. I found this approach to be inconvenient and distracting while shooting. Sure, you can set these options and forget about them, but I prefer not having the option at all, as the simplicity was the whole point..
The list of settings to adjust and tweak, including resolution changes, grew even larger with the M11-D, likely due to requests for more features. So, although both the M10-D and M11-D lack a screen, the irony is that one still need a phone to make these adjustments. It’s as if you’re almost forgetting it’s not a film camera, only to be reminded with, “Hey, I can change this and that.” That illusion is instantly shattered!
If you want to get as close as possible to the experience of shooting film, I believe the original M-D and the M60 got it right. Each subsequent 'D' model has introduced more features and complexity, making the shooting experience less authentic compared to film, especially with the addition of an EVF!!
RWNPhoto wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't know this was just a thread about people telling everyone why they would or should buy it.
Good ridance.
I think this thread is balanced. While many of us are Leica fans, there are mixed opinions about the new M11-D. Your comment suggests that no one should want a digital camera without an LCD, but it’s important to respect that people might appreciate its unique design or experience.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I think this thread is balanced. While many of us are Leica fans, there are mixed opinions about the new M11-D. Your comment suggests that no one should want a digital camera without an LCD, but it’s important to respect that people might appreciate its unique design or experience.
No... my post suggests and says that no one should want to pay more to NOT have a screen. Let's say there are 2 identical cars, and one had no radio. Would you pay more for the one that costs more with no radio so you can focus on just driving?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Agree!
From the D series, I've only used the Leica M-D (Typ 262). It has no menu or settings to adjust and doesn’t support Wi-Fi, so there’s no FOTOS app. White balance is set to "auto", metering is "center average" and the file type is "dng" That's it. When you import your DNG files into LR, you can choose from the camera's WB AUTO setting or change to any other presets or manual values. In my opinion, the M60 and M-D offer the closest experience to shooting with film in a digital camera.
Starting with the M10-D,, Leica added Wi-Fi and options to adjust settings like white balance via a phone. I found this approach to be inconvenient and distracting while shooting. Sure, you can set these options and forget about them, but I prefer not having the option at all, as the simplicity was the whole point..
The list of settings to adjust and tweak, including resolution changes, grew even larger with the M11-D, likely due to requests for more features. So, although both the M10-D and M11-D lack a screen, the irony is that one still need a phone to make these adjustments. It’s as if you’re almost forgetting it’s not a film camera, only to be reminded with, “Hey, I can change this and that.” That illusion is instantly shattered!
If you want to get as close as possible to the experience of shooting film, I believe the original M-D and the M60 got it right. Each subsequent ‘D’ model has introduced more features and complexity, making the shooting experience less authentic compared to film, especially with the addition of an EVF!!...Show more →
Talk about distracting, look at how this reviewer is using the new M11-D . Exactly what this camera is NOT meant to be used for
RWNPhoto wrote:
No... my post suggests and says that no one should want to pay more to NOT have a screen. Let's say there are 2 identical cars, and one had no radio. Would you pay more for the one that costs more with no radio so you can focus on just driving?
I must say that I do not use the Fotos app on my M11 models. However, with the M11D I will have to use it since I only shoot WB Daylight unless inside where I probably will not use the M11D anyway. That and highlight metering I will change and then leave well enough alone. After that I do not plan to access the Fotos app often or at all. I will not use it while shooting, but only before leaving for a shoot so that I can concentrate on captures rather than chipping or whatever. Come to think about it I rarely chimp my M11 files. I do like to see the histogram for 1 second and that is about all. On my M11M I set the highlights to about 245-250 to be safe in protecting the highlights. Easy setup.
