flash wrote:
Copy and paste from LuF plus a few extras:
Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.
Things I like:
* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.
* I like the weight of the camera. Sure not Sony weight. But not Sony build either. It's a bit goldilocks(ish) so far. Ask me again in a month.
* Build quality. Everything on the market feels like a toy next to the SL3. Yup. Even you Z8 and R3. Sorry.
* Joystick is the best in the industry. Just is.
* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.
* Play button is where it should be.
* Flip screen
* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)
* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).
* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).
* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....
* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...
Neutral:
* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.
* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.
* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.
* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.
* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.
* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......
Dislike:
* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.
* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.
* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.
* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?
* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?
* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.
* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?
They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.
In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.
Gordon
p.s. This is not a cousin of the X2D. Same cost is about all they have in common. The X2D still beats the SL3 in absolute system IQ (with any lens), menus, EVF and handling. The SL3 thumps it in speed, versatility and functionality..
The Sony A7R5 evf is better on paper but basically the same in use. Panel is better on the Sony and optics are better on the Leica....Show more →
Great summary! Lack of EFCS baffles me too. Another comment indicated it's also not on the M11? I must have forgotten this.
rscheffler wrote:
Great summary! Lack of EFCS baffles me too. Another comment indicated it's also not on the M11? I must have forgotten this.
Are the DNGs lossless compressed or uncompressed?
Re: EFCS. Maybe they don't want to mess with adding a new shutter mode that auto-switches from EFCS to mechanical at higher shutter speeds, which is required to avoid bokeh issues when shooting wide open in bright light. Fujifilm does this quite well, but maybe Leica doesn't have the firmware expertise.
so we already know the sl3-s and what it does based on the Panasonic s5ii/x, I wonder how the s1r replacement will look like now that we know sl3! panasonic has always had very extensive menu which i both like and dislike (dislike is when I know of a feature and can't find it). i wonder efcs will show up or a deeper buffer. i opted for the panasonic version when sl2 rolled out, now wait and see what it looks like
if you watch the video by petapixel, it seems u need more than one battery, so u must buy the charger too, I am guessing at 250usd. all is normal in the Leica world. One thing is for sure, they make beautiful cameras like no other
matthewm wrote:
haha. The white on the EVF bump is obnoxious. I think they could drop the big red dot logo now that the camera is smaller, make the white text on the bump smaller, and give a nod to the M4 and M6 days with a little red dot on the lens release button. Just sort of make the whole thing a little less... "HEY IM SHOOTING WITH A LEICA!"
Leica schmeica…, a Sony A1 is $6500 and most people have no idea what a Leica or Sony A1is other than it’s not a phone. Most people, even working photographers, do not need a Sony A1 or a Leica to do their job.
But I have a Leica… Seriously, I do—but so what? I’d still have fun with a 5D.
soarfm wrote:
Leica schmeica…, a Sony A1 is $6500 and most people have no idea what a Leica or Sony A1is other than it’s not a phone. Most people, even working photographers, do not need a Sony A1 or a Leica to do their job.
But I have a Leica… Seriously, I do—but so what? I’d still have fun with a 5D.
I’m fine with the cameras being overpriced. It’s the price you pay for presumed build quality - and in the case of the M and the monochrome cameras, unique offerings - but I get angry when the back panel of my Visoflex 2 falls off and I have to put it back together with superglue. That thing is new $750 and not built to the presumed standard. Similarly, prices for batteries etc. rankle me as well.
I used to own Profoto lights and got rid of them not because I didn’t like them but because the cost of spare parts and accessories was too high to warrant owning them compared to other more reasonably priced lights. Apple falls in that category as well: great computers, but lousy overpriced cables etc.
johnvanr wrote:
Used to watch his channel. He’s a good photographer, but under the veneer of “I’m a professional photographer” he’s basically a Leica (and Wotancraft) fanboy and always finds a way to make a use case even when other brands are clearly better options. In one video about the SL3, he even says he’ll get the Leica but will have to add a Panasonic to make it work for him.
And I say this as a Leica and Wotancraft owner.
Yes, I saw the video where he stated that. But isn't that contradicting what you just wrote before, "even when other brands...". In think in this video he says that for video work Sony is clearly better. That's why he might use a Panasonic to compensate. I myself can to a certain extent understand his reasoning: he says he wants to have just one system for all. Panasonic also uses the L-Mount, so he could get rid of Sony. I also understand why someone would get rid of Sony. You see, I'm not that critical of his judgments or videos. In contrast, I really like that he doesn't focus on sensor etc. because it doesn't play a role for him.
And yes, I also like that he's a really good photographer. In most cases those guys on youtube are exactly the opposite. That's why they often read out specs in their videos.
This Red Dot Forum Camera Talk direct compare of SL3 and SL2 is for me, very encouraging. Even though the Leica SL3 is somewhat smaller and lighter ( approx. 20% smaller and 10% lighter vs SL2) it still appears to be a robust camera body and what looks to be... still a good balance for the exceptional Leica SL APO Primes. IMO access to the Leica SL Primes IS one of the primary reasons to shoot the Leica SL system.
*Otherwise Plenty, plenty of smaller, more compact alternative cameras and brands and very nice small/compact lenses all over the market at all price levels for those that need/want small and compact as a priority. Personally, I own small and compact too, the M11 rangefinder and the Sony A1--so I get it. But also I find going for Leica SL IQ as a priority with the SL system SL APO primes very manageable, very comfortable for multi hour carry via neck strap, even for long distance travel.
But no battery charger? Need to "digest" all the above and below information.
Dan
I think there was an EU mandate around chargers and it’s easier just to be consistent around the world. Every manufacturer is doing this and usb-c chargers are relatively cheap.
johnvanr wrote:
Used to watch his channel. He’s a good photographer, but under the veneer of “I’m a professional photographer” he’s basically a Leica (and Wotancraft) fanboy and always finds a way to make a use case even when other brands are clearly better options. In one video about the SL3, he even says he’ll get the Leica but will have to add a Panasonic to make it work for him.
And I say this as a Leica and Wotancraft owner.
I'll be seeing him tomorrow. And I've met Justin before.
He's exactly like his videos. And kind and generous. A properly nice human. And his wife is an absolute legend.
LBJ2 wrote:
Apparently slightly thicker and slightly shorter. As I wrote--still "appears" to be a good balance with the finest FF lenses Leica has ever made.
soarfm wrote:
Leica schmeica…, a Sony A1 is $6500 and most people have no idea what a Leica or Sony A1is other than it’s not a phone. Most people, even working photographers, do not need a Sony A1 or a Leica to do their job.
But I have a Leica… Seriously, I do—but so what? I’d still have fun with a 5D.
flash wrote:
Balance is improved. Feels better to me.
Gordon
one of the slight SL2 annoyances when i set it on a table with any of the APO primes mounted, it tips over...it's probably par for the course since they're a bit longer...but i still find it slightly annoying. is it the same with the SL3?
re: UI. the SL2 is very lacking when it comes to macro photography (screen has no visual indicator for macro distance EXCEPT the distance indicator on the top LCD which is not very convenient because you need to half-press the shutter button to even see it)...did Leica add anything for SL3? it would be really disappointing to REVAMP the UI and icons without improving the macro UI experience.
on that note, I would be ok with the lack of pixel shift they would at least add focus shift/bracketing for macro.
Has anyone seen a review that focuses on the SL3 Eye AF capabilities for wildlife? With Sigma's new 500/5.6, I could shed a lot of weight with this combo in the field.
Bob, have you divested from Sony? If not, wouldn't the FE mount version be a better solution for you? Based on what Gordon wrote earlier, sounds like a Canikony camera will likely still be a better 'action' AF solution. Particularly if you also want higher fps with AF.
tzhang4284 wrote:
I think there was an EU mandate around chargers and it’s easier just to be consistent around the world. Every manufacturer is doing this and usb-c chargers are relatively cheap.
I can understand and appreciate the reasoning for this with respect to devices with sealed internal batteries. However, a camera with removable battery, where some users will use it intensively from time to time (all-day events, jobs, outings, etc.) and multiple batteries will come into play, in-camera charging simply is not sufficient. While you can charge the battery while using the camera, having a cable sticking out of the camera is a suboptimal experience, and depending on the situation, risks damaging the USB port (and likely the underlying circuit board). I understand there will be an accessory dual-battery charger available for purchase, but...
That said, it's Leica and you know you're paying a premium for a minimalist experience, so spending a few hundred extra (guessing) for an accessory a possible minority of SL3 users will need, is par for the course.
Seriously, I do—but so what? I’d still have fun with a 5D.
