I had a look at DPR's sample gallery, shot on the SL 90 APO. 60MP doesn't appear to even come close to taxing the lens!
If I had the budget, the Summicron-SL primes and some of the zooms (90-280) are why I would get an SL camera.
You guys are piquing my curiosity. Would/could these lenses adapt well to FE / GFX bodies?
I haven't heard of L mount lenses used on other systems.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Regardless, for $7K, I’d rather get a GFX 100 II.
Fred Miranda wrote:
This likely appeals to many photographers. You're getting a superior EVF, medium format sensor, and 100 megapixels for a similar price. The lenses are also less expensive, but there's a drawback: there is an increase in weight by about 180 grams, which is significant. However, considering what you're getting, the overall system is still relatively lightweight. Also Leica M lenses won't play well on that sensor which is one of the benefits of the SL series.
Overall system size will also be larger with the Fuji and if you're reliant on AF for moving subjects then perhaps not quite as usable as a FF 35mm system, though no idea how PDAF on the SL3 compares to Canikony options.
At some point you just have to make a decision, pick a system and go with it. There will always be something better, at least on paper. But yeah, budget-wise, a Fuji kit will be cheaper than the SL3 with a set of Leica lenses (though there are lower cost L mount options).
genjy wrote:
The regular tilt screen is surprising because a good chunk of this camera's audience is probably portrait photographers. The tilt screen is not useful for handheld vertical shooting.. it's better than a fixed screen, but still eh. I guess for landscape and street shooters?
Does anyone shoot verticals any more? Just crop from horizontal. 60MP, so lots of pixels to work with. (kind of joking)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I just realized that the SL3 is actually 8mm thicker than the SL2. It seems like all the discussion about the new camera being smaller has taken a different turn...
I cannot help but think that Leica is making a mistake with the SL line. It’s a great looking camera, but purely based on specs this camera makes little sense compared to other high-resolution FF cameras. You must really believe in some special Leica sauce to choose this over more capable cameras from the competition that cost a few thousand dollars less.
I only looked at the SL line as a platform for M lenses, but think my Canon R kit is a better overall setup when it comes to AF shooting.
rscheffler wrote:
Does anyone shoot verticals any more? Just crop from horizontal. 60MP, so lots of pixels to work with. (kind of joking)
That's what I am thinking too.... I do that with even fewer MP, so 60MP should be way more than enough to crop from horizontal to vertical, but sometimes it wouldn't work that well when you want headroom in the images so you gotta move back more or use a wider angle lens.... or AI fill.
I installed the new Fotos App. It screwed up my link between the phone and camera. Then it locked up the camera. I had to take the battery out and reset, then relink the camera to Fotos. Now all seems to work Ok again. Shees Leica? You need to fire some of the programmers and project managers that keep screwing up otherwise amazing cameras.
One of the main pain points for me in my M11 is the absolute shit implementation of User Profiles. There so much potential in what properly implemented could be such a powerful feature. But, I cant get it to persist to the user I want. It keeps randomly resetting to the Default user and my camera doesn't behave the way I set it up to. What user Profile the Icon shows doesn't reflect which setting the camera is using. Really Leica? These should be simple things.
Get your shit together guys!!!!
Fred Miranda wrote:
This likely appeals to many photographers. You're getting a superior EVF, medium format sensor, and 100 megapixels for a similar price. The lenses are also less expensive, but there's a drawback: there is an increase in weight by about 180 grams, which is significant. However, considering what you're getting, the overall system is still relatively lightweight. Also Leica M lenses won't play well on that sensor which is one of the benefits of the SL series.
Or the X2D where you don't pay as much of a size/weight penalty as the GFX100II, though lose the superior AF & EVF. However you do get Leica-esque design/haptics/menu interface.
Stephen G wrote:
Or the X2D where you don't pay as much of a size/weight penalty as the GFX100II, though lose the superior AF & EVF. However you do get Leica-esque design/haptics/menu interface.
While that's true, the X2D tends to be a bit pricier. Leica, much like Hasselblad, has a loyal community of photographers who favor their systems. However, for photographers already shooting with M-mount lenses, the SL series seems to be a better choice, given that its sensor works great with M-mount lenses. I thoroughly tested this, and it's actually the case. While M-mount lenses may not perform as well as on a Leica M, I'd say the SL series is the second-best system for adapting them..
While I can't say for certain about the SL3 sensor and M-mount optimization, I have faith that Leica wouldn't mess this up!
Agreed, SL excels in the niche of Leica owners already in the Leica ecosystem who want to use their M lenses on a mirrorless body. I've purchased each generation SL with that intention previously. I just wish they aspired to broaden it a bit more.
Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.
Things I like:
* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.
* I like the weight of the camera. Sure not Sony weight. But not Sony build either. It's a bit goldilocks(ish) so far. Ask me again in a month.
* Build quality. Everything on the market feels like a toy next to the SL3. Yup. Even you Z8 and R3. Sorry.
* Joystick is the best in the industry. Just is.
* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.
* Play button is where it should be.
* Flip screen
* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)
* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).
* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).
* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....
* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...
Neutral:
* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.
* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.
* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.
* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.
* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.
* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......
Dislike:
* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.
* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.
* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.
* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?
* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?
* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.
* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?
They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.
In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.
Gordon
p.s. This is not a cousin of the X2D. Same cost is about all they have in common. The X2D still beats the SL3 in absolute system IQ (with any lens), menus, EVF and handling. The SL3 thumps it in speed, versatility and functionality..
The Sony A7R5 evf is better on paper but basically the same in use. Panel is better on the Sony and optics are better on the Leica.
flash wrote:
Copy and paste from LuF plus a few extras:
Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.
Things I like:
* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.
* I like the weight of the camera. Sure not Sony weight. But not Sony build either. It's a bit goldilocks(ish) so far. Ask me again in a month.
* Build quality. Everything on the market feels like a toy next to the SL3. Yup. Even you Z8 and R3. Sorry.
* Joystick is the best in the industry. Just is.
* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.
* Play button is where it should be.
* Flip screen
* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)
* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).
* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).
* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....
* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...
Neutral:
* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.
* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.
* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.
* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.
* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.
* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......
Dislike:
* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.
* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.
* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.
* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?
* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?
* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.
* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?
They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.
In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.
Gordon
p.s. This is not a cousin of the X2D. Same cost is about all they have in common. The X2D still beats the SL3 in absolute system IQ (with any lens), menus, EVF and handling. The SL3 thumps it in speed, versatility and functionality..
The Sony A7R5 evf is better on paper but basically the same in use. Panel is better on the Sony and optics are better on the Leica....Show more →
Gordon, the lack of EFCS on the SL3 is unbelievable and really concerns me also. Especially when we have reports of the SL3's shutter being louder than the SL2's, that could also indicate increased shutter shock.
Some would say just use ES more often below 1/250 to eliminate shutter shock. Unfortunately the SL3's (Sony) 60MP sensor has a very slow scan speed of 1/10th second and we know what that often will bring on. At least the SL2's ES scan speed is up around 1/40th second so it is somewhat of a workable option (for me).
Unfortunately unless Leica stops being stubborn and offers EFCS, the SL3 is a no-go for my pixel peeping standards. A possible future SL3S with Sony's 33MP sensor could get my interest for its other attributes in low light and higher ISO.
i wasn't surprised for the lack of EFCS given that it's the same sensor as the M11/Q3. if it was possible it would have been implemented in the M11 which needs it more.
i was hoping that there was at least 16-bit color mode even if it's 1fps or even slower.
lighter/smaller at the expense of downgraded IBIS and removal the multi-shot mode is a disappointment.
i don't like the flippy screen implementation; it's half-assed if you ask me. i don't quite understand why the articulation is so limited but it's not flushed to the body, ruining the overall design...they had to extend the EVF as a feature...but reality is because the screen is not flushed to the body...if the articulation is at least similar to the Z9/Z8 maybe i'll let it slide...but if the lowly Fuji X100V can have a similar articulation and maintain the sleek design...i can't see why Leica can't do the same.
the new UI is nice, tho.
with all the complaints aside.. i'll probably end up getting one anyway.
zeitlos wrote:
I just saw that there‘s another one by Justin Mott:
Unfiltered First Impressions | LEICA SL3
Used to watch his channel. He’s a good photographer, but under the veneer of “I’m a professional photographer” he’s basically a Leica (and Wotancraft) fanboy and always finds a way to make a use case even when other brands are clearly better options. In one video about the SL3, he even says he’ll get the Leica but will have to add a Panasonic to make it work for him.
dalegaspi wrote:
i wasn't surprised for the lack of EFCS given that it's the same sensor as the M11/Q3. if it was possible it would have been implemented in the M11 which needs it more.
i was hoping that there was at least 16-bit color mode even if it's 1fps or even slower.
lighter/smaller at the expense of downgraded IBIS and removal the multi-shot mode is a disappointment.
i don't like the flippy screen implementation; it's half-assed if you ask me. i don't quite understand why the articulation is so limited but it's not flushed to the body, ruining the overall design...they had to extend the EVF as a feature...but reality is because the screen is not flushed to the body...if the articulation is at least similar to the Z9/Z8 maybe i'll let it slide...but if the lowly Fuji X100V can have a similar articulation and maintain the sleek design...i can't see why Leica can't do the same.
the new UI is nice, tho.
with all the complaints aside.. i'll probably end up getting one anyway....Show more →
I also wish they had added a 16-bit mode. The sensor can do it so why not offer it to those who want to use it? Would have loved to use if for portrait/landscape.
Would/could these lenses adapt well to FE / GFX bodies? 