p.8 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
At this point, I feel like all of us are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Sony has options for everyone and we should just be happy about that. If it was up to us to build cameras, I'm sure we would come up with an A9III in A7C's body with a great EVF/screen that tilts in every axis defying physics.
Want a fast camera: A9III
Want a high resolution camera with great EVF/screen: A7RV
Want a great hybrid camera: A7IV
Want a great hybrid camera in a smaller body: A7CII
Want a high resolution camera in a smaller body: A7CR
Want a basic/compact full-frame camera: A7C
Want a great small camera: A6700
A camera is only better if it has what you want. Just because it DOES NOT have what you want DOES NOT make it a bad camera.
p.8 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nepali wrote:
At this point, I feel like all of us are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Sony has options for everyone and we should just be happy about that. If it was up to us to build cameras, I'm sure we would come up with an A9III in A7C's body with a great EVF/screen that tilts in every axis defying physics.
Want a fast camera: A9III
Want a high resolution camera with great EVF/screen: A7RV
Want a great hybrid camera: A7IV
Want a great hybrid camera in a smaller body: A7CII
Want a high resolution camera in a smaller body: A7CR
Want a basic/compact full-frame camera: A7C
Want a great small camera: A6700
A camera is only better if it has what you want. Just because it DOES not have what you want does not make it a bad camera....Show more →
I think you're probably right. It is far from being a bad camera, quite an incredible one actually.
p.8 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
The A9 is targeted at fast action with typically big lenses. Who do you feel the market would be for a miniaturized version of the A9…surely not those sitting on the side lines with their 400 2.8 lens.
Nobody *wants* mechanical shutters. They're noisy, unreliable, and cause different IQ problems with EFCS or full mech shutter.
The A9 and A1 aren't just used with telephoto lenses, or just for action. With LED lighting becoming the norm, shooting silently with a fast readout becomes very desirable.
How many street/event/family/hobby shooters wouldn't want a small, inconspicuous, silent camera? Stacked sensors are pretty much at the point where they can deal with most lighting now, with minimal DR hit. Getting rid of of the mechanical shutter altogether would allow them to either make their C line even smaller and lighter, or else add more tech/IBIS in to the same space. I suspect an A9C or an A1C would have been more interesting and better received than the A7CR. I love my A7C - it's a really fun camera, but I use it in silent mode 90% of the time - I only ever switch it to mech to deal with LED lighting.
p.8 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
Where are you getting the A7r5 weight from. It is 723gm not 658gm.
Also, the weight difference that counts is not in the bag but hanging off your wrist.
My bad - I should have double checked these figures. The weight from this graphic is misleading as it supplies the weight for the A7RV without the battery and the A7CR weight with the battery. According to B&H, with batteries, the A7RV weighs 723g, the A7CR 515g for a 208 gram difference. 208 grams isn't much - the Sony 28/2 and the Sigma 45/2.8 (without the hood) both weigh about 200g. The iPhone 15 weighs 221 g.
Again, stick them each in a bag with batteries and lenses, and I would defy anyone to guess which held the A7RV and which held the A7CR.
If I am carrying one lens and one body, then the weight hanging off my wrist is the most important.
If I am carrying additional lenses and/or bodies and/or accessories, then the total weight is what counts.
p.8 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Jonas B wrote:
It's interesting observing how much attention the A7CR gets. So many _absolutely_not interested in the camera having to tell the world that it's much better to buy an A7RV instead.
All kind of forum tricks... not for the pros (a pro.... who decides what is for a pro or not?), you can't use it with a 600mm f/4 lens (as if the A7RV is comfy with the same lens, lol) the half shutter makes the camera unusable (while the A1 is fine), and so on. As a last possible solution, you may, if nothing else exists, perhaps use it as a backup for the first backup.
In the mid 70's the Olympus OM-1 caused a similar reaction...
I want a small and light weight camera with the maximum amount of pixels. That's it. We are all different. Our cameras may be different as well.
Keep it coming... ;-) Just try to at least keep the numbers right....Show more →
1) The question that started this thread asked why so many people weren't buying the A7CR.
2) Lots of people listed the reasons that they were or were not buying the A7CR.
3) You and Chez and others get all pissed off that the people who don't want to buy the A7CR told you why they preferred other options.
p.8 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Crazy topic I guess.
I've owned most all the best gear, the fastest, sharpest, the most robust the smallest, the heaviest and lightest. I still own like 4 systems. What brought me back to Sony was the a7cR. I already owned the r3 and all the Zeiss primes, but never really used them and preferred my Leica gear.
The new Ai AF combined with the smaller form factor changed that and to me, beats down the Q series for travel. It's just way more versatile, I can choose to throw a zoom lens on if i want.
I love that it can be as small or even smaller than anything available (except my CL), comes with 60mp's and AF that just doesn't let you down (which is why I wanted a CL2) or I can throw the grip on it and use my GM Zooms or bigger primes and be perfectly content shooting a soccer game.
I don't need the R5 or an a1 or an a9, I didn't even want to keep my r3, this little a7cR feels like the perfect balance.
p.8 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Jonas B wrote:
the half shutter makes the camera unusable (while the A1 is fine)
I don't agree with many arguments here but let's don't mislead people.
The reason why A1 (or Z8/Z9 for that matter) gets some slack for missing full mech shutter is because their fast sensors allow them to use electronic shutter in nearly all conditions. It's only in special cases (e.g. faster flash sync for A1) that mech shutter gets any use at all (and it should have been full mech for the price )...
p.8 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
smpetty wrote:
My bad - I should have double checked these figures. The weight from this graphic is misleading as it supplies the weight for the A7RV without the battery and the A7CR weight with the battery. According to B&H, with batteries, the A7RV weighs 723g, the A7CR 515g for a 208 gram difference. 208 grams isn't much - the Sony 28/2 and the Sigma 45/2.8 (without the hood) both weigh about 200g. The iPhone 15 weighs 221 g.
Again, stick them each in a bag with batteries and lenses, and I would defy anyone to guess which held the A7RV and which held the A7CR.
If I am carrying one lens and one body, then the weight hanging off my wrist is the most important.
If I am carrying additional lenses and/or bodies and/or accessories, then the total weight is what counts.
I disagree with you about things evening out if carrying a bag. I travel with multiple bodies and lenses, most of which are in my backpack…but I always have a camera and lens in my hand ready to take a photo. So even though the weight difference won’t be felt in the pack…it will definitely be felt on your wrist…especially at the end of a long day.
p.8 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Matt Kerby wrote:
Crazy topic I guess.
I've owned most all the best gear, the fastest, sharpest, the most robust the smallest, the heaviest and lightest. I still own like 4 systems. What brought me back to Sony was the a7cR. I already owned the r3 and all the Zeiss primes, but never really used them and preferred my Leica gear.
The new Ai AF combined with the smaller form factor changed that and to me, beats down the Q series for travel. It's just way more versatile, I can choose to throw a zoom lens on if i want.
I love that it can be as small or even smaller than anything available (except my CL), comes with 60mp's and AF that just doesn't let you down (which is why I wanted a CL2) or I can throw the grip on it and use my GM Zooms or bigger primes and be perfectly content shooting a soccer game.
I don't need the R5 or an a1 or an a9, I didn't even want to keep my r3, this little a7cR feels like the perfect balance. ...Show more →
That’s the intriguing thing with the A7cr…it can be a small compact camera by marrying a nice small prime with it and go for a day of street shooting…or you can add a grip and put on a GM prime and do a portrait shoot…or just set it up on a tripod and use some great manual focus lens and take landscape photos.
If you start with a compact camera, you can always add some bulk to it. Starting with a bulky camera…you can only get bulkier.
p.8 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I still don't understand all the various arguments about size and weight where some are suggesting it's trivial. There's entire industries based on making stuff light weight and more portable and people pay a lot of $$ to save a few grams and lose functionality and durability. You want all the bells and whistles? great get your big comfy car camping tent. But perhaps you want something that is super light and fragile sometimes because it enables optionality of bringing it places you might actually take it and thus might get more use or enable a trip that wouldn't with the car camping tent.
Same thing here. The A7C series is lighter weight and smaller in volume (based on % these are very significant reductions in volume and weight). That reduction in weight and size increases your opportunities that you might grab your camera: by increasing places it might fit, lightens load of it being on your neck all day, or perhaps you just feel more socially comfortable without a big pro looking cam. If you're only rocking big GM lenses then this camera won't change much and probably doesn't make sense. I personally found myself grabbing my A9 over my A9ii almost always unless I was pairing it with 50 1.2 or 70-200 type lenses. The A7Cr further creates more opportunities where I'll elect to take my camera over leaving it behind particularly with a lens like the 45 sigma I almost never hesitate to bring it just in case now.
I think some of the complaints of the A7Cr are valid(EVF and LCD res, joystick), price is a bit high in some regions, but overall it's a great camera if you enjoy the options reduced size brings. I'd love to see an A1C to get even more compact by ditching the shutter and bring out a 28 or 35mm G true pancake lens option. Maybe sony could engineer a rock solid housing-like body that the A1C could be inserted into to provide even larger grip, extra battery, more custom bottons, and maybe even a large EVF, make it Z9 size. Then everyone could be happy.
p.8 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
tsdevine wrote:
Fred should add a "Hide this thread" feature to FM.
There is one very simple solution, but you already know it. Don’t visit this post. You complain about it…yet you are visiting on multiple occasions…what does that say?
p.8 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
At some point people will realize they have different priorities. These threads tend to go on a long time, often turning into people arguing their viewpoint, sometimes in such a way that it seems they are presenting it as the "right" viewpoint. With some reasonable people trying to point out that everyone has different wants and needs, and that's okay.
My comment wasn't directed at you chez, it just happened to fall right after your post.
Everyone, please ignore my earlier post. By the tone I obviously upset people here. I didn't mean to disrupt the constructive conversation going on.
chez wrote:
There is one very simple solution, but you already know it. Don’t visit this post. You complain about it…yet you are visiting on multiple occasions…what does that say?
p.8 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I understand the argument that if I replace my A7RV with an A7CR in my usual backpack that I use for most of my landscape shooting trips, the change will not even be noticed - 7.33 ounces removed from a 25-30 pound pack is trivial to me.
I also understand the argument that if I have a camera in my hand for many hours in a day, those 7.33 ounces in weight savings could make a big difference.
I purchased an A7CII a few months back hoping to use it as my non-landscape walkaround cam when I travel, but unfortunately for me the ergonomics made it very uncomfortable to hold (my A7RV is much more comfortable to carry in-hand for my walkarounds).
I like that Sony is offering these two compact fullframe models. I have a longstanding relationship with my dealer whose on the west coast where I used to live and he was good about allowing me to send it back, but if the ergos had suited me I would have happily kept it. YMMV.
p.8 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I think my biggest concern with the A7cii and A7cr is whether I can consistently nail critical focus with the relatively poor EVF, LCD and magnified live view resolution as compared to my X-T5. (I've tried them in a store and it was substantially harder to manual focus with)
I would consider them still, as I can get AF options for all of my desired lenses (unlike on Fuji).
Sony's AF is known for its reliability in AF-C with moving subjects, but how about AF-S on static landscape subjects? Would I be happy relying on AF all the time? It might sound like an absurd question, but I've had issues with Fuji's AF-S reliably with wider lenses for years now.
p.8 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
AF is Sony's thing, so a solid Yes. (The caveat being lens size/weight.)
You'll find great variation in how people adapt to EVFs in general, and of course Sony pioneered the feature and they know all of it. Some people need high resolution large magnification EVFs to feel comfortable, others are happy with what we have had for over a decade now. Some need greater eye relief, for glasses.
Some are agnostic about placement of the EVF - far left, or near centre of the back panel. Also in line with the top panel or in a hump. Also, inside a luxurious surround, or in a small component nearly hidden from front view, which harks back to NEX days. So there are many variables, which is why I posted three of Sony's early EVFs on page four of this thread.
To help MF in any of the Sonys, keep your eye dead centre, use a hat or similar, get the diopter perfect, and practice the ergo. Because magnification is fundamental, the EVF should be acceptably comfortable for you to use. All do the job for the same reason - available magnification.
It's highly personal, but I would not buy one of these to use many manual focus lenses on, either. Maybe a slow 15/21/28 for landscapes/city, 35/50 is marginal, but not a portrait lens of 75/85/100; longer than that is probably best regarded as heroic, if anyone is looking to do this on a regular basis.
It's tough for Sony because they want everyone to buy their AF lenses and the new G/GM ones are very good, so producing an MF-friendly EVF is counter-productive. Not that any new MF lenses are being made for Sony, I mean good ones. So what you have is what you can get, from now moving forward. Other brands are moving ahead fast for MF, using traditional qualities well-blended with new AF aids tech.
More even than with lenses, look past any camera's release PR, reviews and the 'thrill of the new' and consider what you are going to do with it (and what lenses to use) before buying in. Resale may not be kind in 1-2 years' time. Sony has form for making all kinds of cameras at any one time just to see what happens, from the very start.
p.8 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
aloy99 wrote:
I think my biggest concern with the A7cii and A7cr is whether I can consistently nail critical focus with the relatively poor EVF, LCD and magnified live view resolution as compared to my X-T5. (I've tried them in a store and it was substantially harder to manual focus with)
EVF quality is a concern but Sony could do much to improve mf. For years I have wondered why the camera does not recognize faces when in mf. There should be an option where area of magnification (normally in center) jumps to a face when recongnized. This would hugely help using mf lenses in people photography.
aloy99 wrote:
Sony's AF is known for its reliability in AF-C with moving subjects, but how about AF-S on static landscape subjects? Would I be happy relying on AF all the time? It might sound like an absurd question, but I've had issues with Fuji's AF-S reliably with wider lenses for years now.
Just use af button for focus. Then you can go AFC all the time and forget AFS. DMF is a sometimes useful focus mode, though.
p.8 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Toyed with the idea of it when it was released and I was looking to trade my well used A7r3 but in the end it just lacks much of what I need in the larger A7 series so went with the A7r5 instead. I work with 2 cameras and now have the A1 and A7r5 as my setup and really neither of them are that large compared to a DSLR or some of the other mirrorless cameras. For me the main setback with the 7C series cameras is the lack of customisable buttons which I find to be vital to quickly change and enter my main settings. Also I want to work with 2 cameras with very similar controls. Also I really don't like LCD screens that flip out to the side and just having 1 SD card slot is concerning. Once you have used the high resolution EVF on the A1 and A7r5 there really is no looking back. Basically it just is a less versatile camera
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