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Archive 2023 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"

  
 
tonychen
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p.11 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Even without edu, a7rv is heavily discounted brand new. B&S used listings have drop their price accordingly too.

I don't understand why the price drop so much for a one-year old fantastic camera.

chiron wrote:
With EDU pricing, the A7RV is currently selling for about $300 less than the A7Cr at B&H. $2718 vs $2998.




Dec 23, 2023 at 10:50 PM
nhsonyshooter
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p.11 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


tx1oops wrote:
The A1 is quite literally that camera — what isn’t it suitable for?


It can't be smaller. Which is the whole point of the "C" line of cameras.



Dec 23, 2023 at 10:54 PM
aloy99
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p.11 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


tuomkok wrote:
EVF quality is a concern but Sony could do much to improve mf. For years I have wondered why the camera does not recognize faces when in mf. There should be an option where area of magnification (normally in center) jumps to a face when recongnized. This would hugely help using mf lenses in people photography.


I think that would be great, it seems the Nikon Zf is able to do that now which I much appreciate.
Another feature that would really help, is the ability to assign my AF-On button to perform AF-On in AF-C or AF-S, but punch in when in MF. I find it quite unfortunate having to use two function buttons to focus, one of which is useless in MF, while the other is rarely useful in AF.

tuomkok wrote:
Just use af button for focus. Then you can go AFC all the time and forget AFS. DMF is a sometimes useful focus mode, though.


I picked up an A7c and used this setup as recommended by yourself and many others. It seems to be true that AF-C is best in most cases, but I found it giving false focus confirmation in low light, or hunting and completely failing to acquire focus. Switching over to AF-S allowed me to acquire focus fairly quickly and accurately, which I'll keep in mind for such edge cases.

However, this failure does leave me a bit hesitant to trust AF-C entirely, especially when it's hard to tell in the EVF where my exact plane of focus is (which was my initial source of hesitation with switching to the A7cii and A7cr). Perhaps this issue might be more common on my older A7c.




Jan 12, 2024 at 12:18 PM
Matt Kerby
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p.11 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


^^ I pretty much live in AF-C , but, If you're in really low light having problems locking focus, easy enough to hit the function button and switch to AF-S or DMF.

I've had the a7cR for about a month. I love it, it's turned into my go-to mirrorless..I always loved small powerful cameras like the RX1RII, tons of punch in a tiny package. The fact that I can switch lenses, unlike the RX's and the Q's is a major benefit.
Folks can bitch about it not being the a7rV...But it's not supposed to be. The one weak spot of course is everyone else's, the EVF. But to me it doesn't take the joy out of shooting it, especially looking at the results in Post.



Jan 12, 2024 at 12:41 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


It's good you like it, for these personal reasons. However, disagreement is not, as you put it, 'bitching', such a lovely word. And in this context it carries implications as to what you think of those who disagree here.

It's a discussion that involves differences of opinion. No one expects the new camera to be a replica of the R-line flagship. They do think the key component is less functional than it should be, and they take the time to explain why they feel this way.

What assists in persuading others in these chats is facts. An example would be telling readers why you feel as you do with your 'I' sentences above. Facts are impersonal, and they have always worked very well in getting to the bottom of things. cheers.



Jan 12, 2024 at 04:07 PM
Matt Kerby
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p.11 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Sorry about that, you're right I guess I did sound like an ass and I don't think the folks here who disagree are wrong. But I do think a lot of folks expect it to match many of the specs of the R line.
I was trying to explain a simple way to make it easier to deal with AF, but I guess I didn't do a good job
cheers

Edited on Jan 12, 2024 at 08:45 PM · View previous versions



Jan 12, 2024 at 04:50 PM
chiron
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p.11 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Matt Kerby wrote:
^^ I pretty much live in AF-C , but, If you're in really low light having problems locking focus, easy enough to hit the function button and switch to AF-S or DMF.

I've had the a7cR for about a month. I love it, it's turned into my go-to mirrorless..I always loved small powerful cameras like the RX1RII, tons of punch in a tiny package. The fact that I can switch lenses, unlike the RX's and the Q's is a major benefit.
Folks can bitch about it not being the a7rV...But it's not supposed to be. The one weak spot
...Show more

I do feel that people seem to go out of their way to criticize the A7Cr camera with more feeling than seems to make sense, especially since many of the critics don't seem to own it and haven't used it. But many of them do seem to own the A7RV. So there may be some element of sour grapes or competitiveness or FOMO in many of the more persistent non-owners' objections.

I have the A7Cr and I have just gotten but not yet used the A7CII. The big thing about both cameras is their size. It is remarkable how much technology has been put into a small body. Enhanced AI autofocus and seven stops of IBIS! As a travel, take-along, and documentary camera, it works very well for me.

There are two weakness for me. One is the EVF, which is perfectly useable but not the gorgeous wonder that the A7RV has. The A7Cr's EVF has 2,359,259 pixels and .70 magnification. Ok, but not great. But the Leica M11's optical viewfinder has a similar .73 magnification. These characteristics may matter to you or they really may not. It happens not to matter much to me. I'd prefer a better EVF and LCD but I am usually grabbing a picture quickly and don't have long to look through the EVF. If you compose slowly, as on a tripod, and study your EVF for longer periods, it might well not be for you.

The other weakness the A7Cr shares with almost every other camera out there is that it does not have a stacked sensor. I strongly prefer to shoot with an electronic silent shutter. The A7Cr and the A7RV have the slowest sensor readouts of any Sony camera, primarily because they have the highest resolution.

There are a couple of reasons i want to try out the A7CII. First, I'm not sure I need 60mpix, though they have their uses. Secondly, the A7CII has a better AF system than the A7Cr (or the A7RV). Both of the latter have 693 AF points and 79% coverage. The A7CII has 759 AF points and 94% coverage. Better. Also, the A7CII's sensor sites are significantly larger than the A7Cr's sites. This should make the A7CII more sensitive to light with less noise. Finally, because the A7CII has fewer lines to be read out, its sensor readout time should be quicker than the A7Cr's and the A7Rv's. Whether this degree of difference makes any real difference to the problems of a non-stacked sensor, I don't know.

What really appeals to me about these cameras is what they seem to share with the 35mm rangefinder tradition--a small, unobtrusive, high quality interchangeable lens camera that can shoot quickly, be handled nimbly, produce very high quality images, and be taken anywhere. Perfect for travel, documentary, street, and candids. But with modern autofocus and IBIS. This is what Sony mirrorless was originally all about, as in the NEX-7.

But damn the non-stacked sensor.



Jan 12, 2024 at 05:02 PM
Tarekith
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p.11 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chiron wrote:
I have the A7Cr and I have just gotten but not yet used the A7CII.


I would LOVE to see like for like comparison images from the two bodies with the same lens if you ever get a chance. I'm going to be getting one of these bodies in a few months (miss my OG A7C after selling to fund the A7IV) but still torn on if I want to go with the higher res A7CR. I know the theoretical benefits of a larger sensor when it comes to things like cropping, but being able to see side by side exactly just what that extra resolution actually looks like would be a big help.

👍🏼




Jan 12, 2024 at 08:16 PM
chez
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p.11 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Tarekith wrote:
I would LOVE to see like for like comparison images from the two bodies with the same lens if you ever get a chance. I'm going to be getting one of these bodies in a few months (miss my OG A7C after selling to fund the A7IV) but still torn on if I want to go with the higher res A7CR. I know the theoretical benefits of a larger sensor when it comes to things like cropping, but being able to see side by side exactly just what that extra resolution actually looks like would be a big help.

👍🏼



For me there are two benefits of the extra resolution.

1. It allows me to print large if I need to.

2. It allows cropping which at times reduces the need to carry more lenses.

The only benefit I can see with a lower resolution camera is shooting high iso and possibly better dynamic range. However today’s cameras are so good at both these aspects that I find n real world shooting, they don’t affect my photography.



Jan 12, 2024 at 08:36 PM
Aztatlan
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p.11 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


If the A7CR had two card slots I could probably live with it’s compromises versus the RV, but as it stands it just isn’t cheap enough (IMO) for the fairly significant compromises it makes in every area. In my country an RV is selling for $4500AU new right now versus around $3900 for the CR.


Jan 12, 2024 at 09:43 PM
Tarekith
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p.11 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Again, I KNOW the benefits in theory, I want to actually SEE the differences with my eyes. Just how different do the images actually LOOK when the only difference is the larger sensor in otherwise identical cameras. I’m surprised more people aren’t a little more curious about this tbh.


Jan 12, 2024 at 09:46 PM
tschopp
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p.11 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I compare 24mp to 60mp exact same location. Even when the 60mp was downscaled to 24mp there was still a visible difference. For me the most important thing was cropping ability. I would upload samples for you but on travel for the next week. I no one gives you actual photos to look at I will when I get home.


Jan 12, 2024 at 09:55 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.11 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Dpreview has their Test Scene as part of their reviews, both the A7Rv and A7CR are available on it now and it seems they've revisited them after a bit of a problem with the move of the test facility and some of the testing. The A7Cii has the same sensor as the A7iv so there's some comparison possibilities there, too.

I have the A7Riv and like the extra resolution for crop at times. I added it while using aps-c so no experience with the lower res FF sensors/camera nor comparisons to share.



Jan 12, 2024 at 10:51 PM
bluehawaii
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p.11 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chiron wrote:
I do feel that people seem to go out of their way to criticize the A7Cr camera with more feeling than seems to make sense, especially since many of the critics don't seem to own it and haven't used it. But many of them do seem to own the A7RV. So there may be some element of sour grapes or competitiveness or FOMO in many of the more persistent non-owners' objections.

I have the A7Cr and I have just gotten but not yet used the A7CII. The big thing about both cameras is their size. It is remarkable how much technology
...Show more

The A7Cr EVF is 0.76mp.

The rear screen is 0.35mp.

Quoting DPR from their piece on the A7Cr:

"My biggest criticism about the a7CR is the rather low-resolution viewfinder and rear display. For a camera with the best full-frame resolution in the biz, it's darned hard to get a sense of the detail you're about to capture while composing a shot. The same goes for viewing results in-camera. But, maybe this is a good thing? Ansel Adams, after all, never pixel-peeped his shots."

Where is the 'FOMO', 'bitching' or 'sour grapes'?

I'm not seeing it.



Jan 13, 2024 at 07:40 AM
Jonas B
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p.11 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Craig Gillette wrote:
Dpreview has their Test Scene as part of their reviews, both the A7Rv and A7CR are available on it now and it seems they've revisited them after a bit of a problem with the move of the test facility and some of the testing. The A7Cii has the same sensor as the A7iv so there's some comparison possibilities there, too.

I have the A7Riv and like the extra resolution for crop at times. I added it while using aps-c so no experience with the lower res FF sensors/camera nor comparisons to share.


I'm not sure but It still seems as they didn't nail the focus. That usually doesn't matter but in this case it does.



Jan 13, 2024 at 07:55 AM
Jonas B
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p.11 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
The A7Cr EVF is 0.76mp.

The rear screen is 0.35mp.

Quoting DPR from their piece on the A7Cr:

"My biggest criticism about the a7CR is the rather low-resolution viewfinder and rear display. For a camera with the best full-frame resolution in the biz, it's darned hard to get a sense of the detail you're about to capture while composing a shot. The same goes for viewing results in-camera. But, maybe this is a good thing? Ansel Adams, after all, never pixel-peeped his shots."

Where is the 'FOMO', 'bitching' or 'sour grapes'?

I'm not seeing it.


I thought we had left the "bitching" part behind us.
Anyway, my impression is the same as Matt Kerby's about some people in this long thread being overly negative at the same time as they never tried the camera. And why would they, or some of them; the A7CR doesn't seem to be aimed at their needs.

Maybe some really hoped for a smaller and more light weight version of the A7RV, a cooler camera offering the same features? When disappointed we humans sometimes express ourselves in ways that aren't exactly objective. (I know I sometimes do.)

Now, the A7CR is a very cool camera only, not a small A7RV.
I also agree with philip_pj about facts and opinions and see no reason to discuss "bitch" any longer.



Jan 13, 2024 at 08:09 AM
bluehawaii
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p.11 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I see the thread title then I see a discussion about the A7Cr.

No need for personal attacks if meaningful discussion is a desired outcome.


I'm ducking out on this one.

Enjoy your cameras






Jan 13, 2024 at 08:19 AM
Jonas B
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p.11 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
[...]
Enjoy your cameras


Yup, whatever the model is!



Jan 13, 2024 at 08:23 AM
bluehawaii
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p.11 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"




Jonas B wrote:
Yup, whatever the model is!


100%!



Jan 13, 2024 at 08:24 AM
lightskyland
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p.11 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I have an A1with VG for all those use cases people are complaining about the A7C bodies not meeting.

I'm replacing my A7R4 with the A7CR because when I am hiking I want something small and compact, not a big body with all the bells and whistles.



Jan 13, 2024 at 08:58 AM
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