p.6 #1 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
retrofocus wrote:
Yes, this issue was often mentioned in recent past. I still don't buy it - I remember just about 10 years ago many voices (and experts) said that > 60 MP on a full-frame sensor can't be done. Simply that technology improves and things get smaller. I predict the same to happen with IBIS. With Leica M maybe not in the next 2-3 years, but then I am quite sure it will be there in the same body size as currently used in M10/M11 cameras.
I don't doubt someday it will be done, but it would have to be a unique IBIS design that somehow positions the bulk of the IBIS mech toward the front of the camera on either side of the sensor versus the rear across the back of the sensor.
p.6 #2 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
I am sure Leica has torn down Fuji XT-5 models with the expecation that someday IBIS will fit into an M with FF sensor versus the APS-C sensor of the Fuji. Not to mention IBIS works in the SL now.
p.6 #4 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
algrove wrote:
I am sure Leica has torn down Fuji XT-5 models with the expecation that someday IBIS will fit into an M with FF sensor versus the APS-C sensor of the Fuji. Not to mention IBIS works in the SL now.
The problem isn't the size of the body, and they don't need to learn how to make IBIS smaller. I'm sure they can do that. The problem is the M sensor is so far back from the mount that there is no room between the sensor and the rear of the M camera. You can't add room for IBIS without making the camera thicker. IBIS not only needs a cage to hold and move the sensor, it needs room behind the sensor to actually move! Fujifilm APS-C cameras may be smaller, but like all other mirrorless cameras besides the M, they have a short distance from sensor to mount, which leaves room behind the sensor.
p.6 #5 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
highdesertmesa wrote:
The problem isn't the size of the body, and they don't need to learn how to make IBIS smaller. I'm sure they can do that. The problem is the M sensor is so far back from the mount that there is no room between the sensor and the rear of the M camera. You can't add room for IBIS without making the camera thicker. IBIS not only needs a cage to hold and move the sensor, it needs room behind the sensor to actually move! Fujifilm APS-C cameras may be smaller, but like all other mirrorless cameras besides the M, they have a short distance from sensor to mount, which leaves room behind the sensor....Show more →
Very cool illustration. I'm wondering if there's still room for more mechanical improvements in the rangefinder. The M10 got better, but the M11 didn't. What will Leica do with the M12? It's unclear and hard to predict the future of M bodies in the next 5 years.
p.6 #6 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
Yes, great illustration for sure. This now makes me wonder if an M body with EVF is closer to realization just as Overgaard somewhat suggested in one of latest comments.
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p.6 #7 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
algrove wrote:
Yes, great illustration for sure. This now makes me wonder if an M body with EVF is closer to realization just as Overgaard somewhat suggested in one of latest comments.
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My biggest fear about an EVF-M isn't that it might push out the optical rangefinder version but that like the original Q, Leica wouldn't be able to catch up on demand for years.
p.6 #8 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
Fred Miranda wrote:
Very cool illustration. I'm wondering if there's still room for more mechanical improvements in the rangefinder. The M10 got better, but the M11 didn't. What will Leica do with the M12? It's unclear and hard to predict the future of M bodies in the next 5 years.
Completely re-working the rangefinder optics so it could accommodate a built-in diopter would be a huge improvement.
p.6 #10 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
highdesertmesa wrote:
The problem isn't the size of the body, and they don't need to learn how to make IBIS smaller. I'm sure they can do that. The problem is the M sensor is so far back from the mount that there is no room between the sensor and the rear of the M camera. You can't add room for IBIS without making the camera thicker. IBIS not only needs a cage to hold and move the sensor, it needs room behind the sensor to actually move! Fujifilm APS-C cameras may be smaller, but like all other mirrorless cameras besides the M, they have a short distance from sensor to mount, which leaves room behind the sensor....Show more →
Add 3mm to the depth of the lens mount ring and you're good to go. Not sure many people would even notice.
p.6 #11 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
flash wrote:
Add 3mm to the depth of the lens mount ring and you're good to go. Not sure many people would even notice.
Gordon
Did we already forget that M camera between the M9 and the M10? M users notice every millimeter.
3mm is just for movement – 2mm for travel and 1mm for buffer. How small could they make the IBIS cage? It has to be at least 1 or 2 mm thicker than the sensor assembly. I think we'd be looking at 4-5mm extension in thickness, which you definitely won't be able to hide as a mount that extends past the front of the body.
For reference, the M flange distance is 7.8mm longer than L and RF mounts, 9.8mm longer than E, and 11.8mm longer than Z. It's even 1.1mm longer than the GFX G-mount!
p.6 #15 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
I will go out on a limb and guess Leica will add autofocus to the M.
Keep the rangefinder and add electrical contacts and weather sealing to the M mount. A new line of autofocus M mount lenses based on reengineering the mounts of the CL lenses with M mount and electric contacts and Presto you have autofocus lenses for the M11 while maintaining rangefinder focus for traditional M lenses. The new lenses would be kept small but necessitate crop to 24 mp. You could add focus conformation in the optical viewfinder and change the lcd overlay in the optical viewfinder to match or use the visoflex. Leica already has the autofocus software and hardware from the SL, CL, and Q3 and lens designs and the M11 has most all the hardware. Just match the camera and lens mounts and presto--you keep traditional rangefinder focus and and an answer for all those that say their eyes are getting too old to rangefinder focus. Sell a ton of new lenses. Wouldn't that be fun.
p.6 #16 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
I doubt they would put auto focu on a digital M. They never added autofocus on their film M cameras why would the on their digital M? My eyes are old but I can see the DoF scale just fine.
p.6 #17 · The Leica M11-P is expected to be released by November 2023
airfrogusmc wrote:
I doubt they would put auto focu on a digital M. They never added autofocus on their film M cameras why would the on their digital M? My eyes are old but I can see the DoF scale just fine.
My prediction:
M11-P:
Black and silver (brass)
256GB internal memory
Sapphire LCD
No red dot
Leica engraving on top
M users notice every millimeter.
