p.9 #1 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
freaklikeme wrote:
I do wonder if the EFCS only is a result of its size. The 6700, overall, is roughly the same size, but has a much smaller sensor and shutter. It was probably easier for them to move the energy created by the movement of that small shutter away from the sensor. The larger shutter in an equally small space may have presented problems greater than the bokeh issue we get with a rear curtain-only arrangement. They took a lot of heat with the performance of the full-mechanical shutter on the original a7r. Maybe they think it's best to avoid that here....Show more →
This makes sense as an explanation. Perhaps Sony is preventing the shutter shock that plagued the original A7R.
p.9 #3 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
freaklikeme wrote:
So what we really need them to do is introduce a line of small, high performance lenses with central shutters, then everyone's happy. Right?
The super compact full frame RX1 series managed to avoid this challenge by incorporating a leaf shutter into the lens, resulting in a completely different design.
There are methods to address the rendering issues associated with EFCS. These problems tend to become noticeable at higher shutter speeds, generally exceeding 1/2000s. Therefore, when working with a shutter speed of 1/2000s or faster, the use of an ND filter would slow down the shutter speed. This, in turn, prevents any degradation in the quality of the background blur.
However, using an ND filter to slow down the shutter speed might not be the best choice, especially for capturing sports, wildlife, or fast-moving scenes that require very high speeds to freeze motion.
p.9 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
So currently have added the A6700 and have my A7C for sale (here on FM B&S forum). Considering both the A7C II and /or the A7CR. Neither is to replace the A7RV I own that has too many additional features I use. If I get one I will probably sell off my A7IV since I have two A1 I can use for events but not for light travel. I need to sit down and compare the A6700 features line by line. I'm nervous since the published specification from many places have errors, even from B&H.
I am leaning toward the A7C II since, as I already said, I plan on keeping my A7RV. Its not as good of a deal but is less expensive and though you can get a nice A7IV, like I already have for less it has extra features like improved IBIS, AF functionality, and small size that you trade off against the one card slot and small EVF. As far as lenses go I had bought smaller f/2 lenses for A7C so I still have these. If I also sell the A6700 I can sell off my APS-C lenses. Not planning on using any of my GM glass on these.
p.9 #5 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
Hey the release of the A7r5 started a bitch session about why the A1 could not get a firmware upgrade with the added features in the A7R5. That’s just the way people are…getting out of bed with the glass half full.
the A1 and A7siii are far behind in firmware updates and that goes back way before the A7R5. The A7iv on the other hand, even if it doesnt have/wont get firmware updates to match, it's pretty darn comprehensive to complain about.... and I'm sure folks will complain, if not already, but it's not much of an issue.
for the Cii and CR, what's the deal with NOT having dynamic stabilization? it is a clear notch above active stabilization and approaching gopro hypersmooth version 1...... I guess if that was included, A7iv/A7rv users would be kicking and screaming
p.9 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
... I have a paid off A7RV and having the hump for Pro works is not an issue.
Congratulations for this great camera!
...For hobbyists that don't have the A7RV already and want to get up to 61mpx then maybe the A7RC makes some sense..
You've got it!
...Im more a little pissed off at Sony for NOT addressing the EVF and I think we all should be as well. Thats not listening to your customers and that bugs me.
Ooh, you've got it not ...
You have the A7R V and you're happy with it.
A small body needs some restrictions to keep the size. A bigger EVF panel needs a bigger body. Be realsitic!
So: Why whining? Keep your A7R V and everything is o.k. for you.
A lot of people like and prefer the small bodies of the "C" line ...
p.9 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
treacle wrote:
In the end I ordered both the a7CII and the a7CR but I will cancel one before they ship. I just couldn’t decide. I think the CR is more fairly priced but the CII is overpriced by about $200-$300. I travel often and that is when I take 95% of my photos now but I’m not convinced I need 61 megapixels either.
you can choose lower resolutions at a hit of burst speeds
p.9 #8 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
freaklikeme wrote:
I do wonder if the EFCS only is a result of its size. The 6700, overall, is roughly the same size, but has a much smaller sensor and shutter. It was probably easier for them to move the energy created by the movement of that small shutter away from the sensor. The larger shutter in an equally small space may have presented problems greater than the bokeh issue we get with a rear curtain-only arrangement. They took a lot of heat with the performance of the full-mechanical shutter on the original a7r. Maybe they think it's best to avoid that here....Show more →
I think that makes sense and as you suggest is a trade-off that probably also enhances sharpness by avoiding first curtain shutter shock.
The bokeh "issue" of EFCS doesn't bother me. My concern is mostly about banding that occurs under LED lights when using full-electronic (silent) shutter. The only good solution to this problem in my view is a very fast sensor read-out as one gets with a stacked sensor. But that would raise the price of an A7Cxx camera considerably and Sony has chosen not to do that.
Even the variable shutter of the A7RV doesn't really solve the LED/banding/silent shutter problem, at least for me and my way of shooting. It requires that you be in either shutter priority or manual mode and that you check images to see if it is working satisfactorily which may be hard to determine from the LCD. It also impinges on one's choices about aperture. I don't now own an A7RV, so I can't tell how well it might work for me in practice, but I am not encouraged by all the caveats about its use.
This is why I have retained my A9. The autofocus and real-time tracking are very strong and the fast read-out of the stacked sensor has avoided banding in all the circumstances that I shoot under. Its only limitation from my point of view is that it is not at the highest levels of resolution. But it is a very good camera in use. It even is smaller than the current Sony form-factor, a big plus in my view.
I recently sold my mint A1 to a very good member who can put its capabilities to excellent use on safaris to Africa and shooting leopards. I am trying to decide whether to replace it with two A7Cr bodies for travel or with one A7Cr and one A7RV. Or, I also think about just pairing my A9 with a new A7RIIIa and its beautiful image quality and small size.
p.9 #9 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
Congratulations for this great camera!
You've got it!
Ooh, you've got it not ...
You have the A7R V and you're happy with it.
A small body needs some restrictions to keep the size. A bigger EVF panel needs a bigger body. Be realsitic!
So: Why whining? Keep your A7R V and everything is o.k. for you.
A lot of people like and prefer the small bodies of the "C" line ...
FWIW, sony DID address the EVF, maybe not enough for anyone's liking, but .59 vs .7 mag
p.9 #10 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
A small body needs some restrictions to keep the size. A bigger EVF panel needs a bigger body. Be realsitic!
The EVF doesn't need to be bigger, it just needs to have more resolution - at least enough that you can actually tell if you have the subject in focus.
p.9 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
Congratulations for this great camera!
You've got it!
Ooh, you've got it not ...
You have the A7R V and you're happy with it.
A small body needs some restrictions to keep the size. A bigger EVF panel needs a bigger body. Be realsitic!
So: Why whining? Keep your A7R V and everything is o.k. for you.
A lot of people like and prefer the small bodies of the "C" line ...
It's not about a bigger EVF the physical size is fine it's the resolution that they certainly could have addressed and that's been the issue all along for 3 years. I am certainly not whining at all but I've been at this for decades taught many many hobbyists on workshops.What my comments are about is Sony is really not listening as well as they could. I get the money issues and layout to trim sizing and parts but you also have o think about your bottom line US. This complaint has been as constant as you can get and very wide spread all over the map about the EVF. Im just the asshole that will bring it up and tell YOU ALL about it. Im seriously qualified to express my views and im rarely wrong with photography , Thats not a pat on the back but 50 years as a Pro gives my great perspective on this industry.
p.9 #12 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
molson wrote:
The EVF doesn't need to be bigger, it just needs to have more resolution - at least enough that you can actually tell if you have the subject in focus.
Thats the issue and gets wiped off the conversation. It's about better not bigger and I shoot manual focus a lot and it's hard without better resolution. Can I get by most certainly I can and do but get us better in the zone would be helpful.
p.9 #13 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
engel001 wrote:
A7cR does have menu items for anti-flicker and variable shutter items. Do these not suffice even if it only has second mechanical curtain?
That is the question, and you may be right. Where did you see the A7Cr menus? I hadn't seen that the Cr has variable shutter.
p.9 #14 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Charlie N wrote:
you can choose lower resolutions at a hit of burst speeds
I hardly ever shoot at high frame rates, I like to choose the moment. But I think the a7RC goes down to 26MP (I have to look at the videos again). I would rather have 61 MP, 41-45 MP would be optimal.
p.9 #15 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chiron wrote:
That is the question, and you may be right. Where did you see the A7Cr menus? I hadn't seen that the Cr has variable shutter.
Im sure it does as it's really a take off of the latest A7RV and even the 6700 which im looking at now but how this relates to the Mechnical shutter is still the question mark.
Just looking at my 6700 with mechanical shutter on I get variable shutter and I also get target variable shutter to test it. I also get anti - flicker but I need to be in M mode with shutter on mechanical for variable shutter wont work in A or whatever mode.
Now my question is on the 6700 does it really have a mechanical shutter and different than the new A7C models. If the A7C is no mechnical it may not have variable shutter in it
p.9 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Okay im looking
Here is the 6700 spec
Exposure Control
Shutter Type
Electronic Shutter, Mechanical Focal Plane Shutter
Okay A7CII
Shutter Type
Electronic Shutter, Mechanical Focal Plane Shutter
Shutter Speed
Mechanical Shutter
1/4000 to 30 Seconds
Electronic Shutter
1/8000 to 30 Seconds
1/8000 to 1 Second in Movie Mode
The A7RC
Shutter Type
Electronic Shutter, Mechanical Focal Plane Shutter
Shutter Speed
Mechanical Shutter
1/4000 to 30 Seconds
Electronic Shutter
1/8000 to 30 Seconds
1/8000 to 1 Second in Movie Mode
They sound identical . Not sure what we are reading about this is correct as the specs dictate otherwise
p.9 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Fred Miranda wrote:
The super compact full frame RX1 series managed to avoid this challenge by incorporating a leaf shutter into the lens, resulting in a completely different design.
There are methods to address the rendering issues associated with EFCS. These problems tend to become noticeable at higher shutter speeds, generally exceeding 1/2000s. Therefore, when working with a shutter speed of 1/2000s or faster, the use of an ND filter would slow down the shutter speed. This, in turn, prevents any degradation in the quality of the background blur.
However, using an ND filter to slow down the shutter speed might not be the best choice, especially for capturing sports, wildlife, or fast-moving scenes that require very high speeds to freeze motion....Show more →
Agreed. And, while I can't imagine either of the new cameras being anyone's primary choice for fast moving action, the benefit of the EFCS when it comes to reduced VF blackout versus full-mechanical without the rolling shutter problems in ES beats any impact to the bokeh for my uses.
p.9 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
GMPhotography wrote:
When I read these words Mechanical Focal Plane Shutter to me that is a mechnical shutter
According to Sony's spec sheet for the 6700, you can turn on/off EFCS so it must have a full mechanical shutter or you wouldn't have the on/off option. That's different than the C line which doesn't offer the on/off.
