p.8 #1 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Alan Parker wrote:
...
Could you also ask if that grip they launched is compatible with other camera models?
At the 5 min mark in Mark Galer's review there is a note on the screen that the grip extension GPX2 is not compatible with the A7C or the A6700. Note sure about the dimensions of the 6700 but the A7C is not quite as deep as the CII or CR.
p.8 #2 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I have both an A7C, an A6700 and it’s clear on the A6700 shutter that EFCS can be set to On/Off when the Mechanical shutter is enabled like the A7RV. The A7C shutter has no e-front curtain shut menu entry or even mechanical. It just has a setting for silent shutter On/Off. Both the A7IV and A7RV have a Mechanical shutter selection and an On/Off setting for e-Front Curtain Shut.
So seeing real examples of the menu will help. I can’t trust any of the store sites to get it right. Same with maximum shutter speed. The YouTube reviews are so shallow. Now that I have more than an hour I will try to watch Mark Galer to see if he covers this.
p.8 #3 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
From the Chris Nicholls/Jordan Drake video review on Petapixel, EFCS only on both:
"Another interesting change is the implementation of electronic first curtain shutters exclusively in both cameras. This means there is no fully mechanical shutter mechanism although there is a fully electronic shutter mode if desired. This EFC-only shutter makes the cameras very stable to shoot at slower shutter speeds due to the lack of slap caused by a traditional mechanical shutter. On the other side, it cause bokeh to render with a truncated look. Worth nothing, but it only occurs when shooting lenses with very bright maximum apertures — arguably a very rare occurrence."
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No fully mechanical shutter on both, not surprising since everything outside of the sensor is probably identical to keep development costs down as much as possible.
p.8 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Ayoul wrote:
There was no way that the A7CR and A7CII could have a great EVF, a great LCD, a full mechanical shutter in a compact body without being even more expensive than the A7RV and A7IV. Sometimes, people dream with their eyes open.
Some people want what they want and don’t care what it costs to get it
p.8 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
joychris wrote:
From the Chris Nicholls/Jordan Drake video review on Petapixel, EFCS only on both:
"Another interesting change is the implementation of electronic first curtain shutters exclusively in both cameras. This means there is no fully mechanical shutter mechanism although there is a fully electronic shutter mode if desired. This EFC-only shutter makes the cameras very stable to shoot at slower shutter speeds due to the lack of slap caused by a traditional mechanical shutter. On the other side, it cause bokeh to render with a truncated look. Worth nothing, but it only occurs when shooting lenses with very bright maximum apertures — arguably a very rare occurrence."
?si=A3euQSCa-EzEyvk3
No fully mechanical shutter on both, not surprising since everything outside of the sensor is probably identical to keep development costs down as much as possible.
p.8 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I saw that in the video and not sure I want no mechnical shutter in a camera that was going to replace my A7RV. That I can't do as I face all the LED/Anti Flicker/Banding issues all the time.
Honestly at 3000 dollars and the A7RV at 3800 where the only plus is a no hump camera and a lot of missing feature sets and the fact I've been bitching about the EVF for 3 years on the A7C and Sony ignored it than im out.
Most of you don't have clients like myself and im not risking anything. I got my workhorse but can play with my 6700 toy. Have fun folks
I can see this in a lot of hobbyists hands for travel and landscape type work but you still have to deal with a compromised EVF and other important feature sets. I get I want small talk but don't compromise yourself either.Be careful in your decisions
p.8 #8 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I was just scrolling through my Lightroom looking at photos I've taken over the last year with the sigma 45 2.8 and many are faster than 1/1000. That said they are all people photos.
I know you can get distortion shooting electronic only shutter but how much of an effect would this have on people snapshots that I might only need 1/125 or 1/250 SS to stop motion? I can't try it because I only have an a9.
p.8 #10 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Ayoul wrote:
On dpreview, they claim that there is no mechanical first curtain on the A7CR. I tend to believe that it's true, like it was true for the previous A7C that I own. If it's like the A7C :
- EFCS in "mechanical" shutter, at every shutter speed, not just the fastest. There is simply no mechanical first curtain
- Full electronic shutter
In EFCS, it can theoretically have an impact on the banding / flickering compared to a faster full mechanical shutter, and it does have a well documented impact at fast shutter speed on the quality of the bokeh. No problem with the bokeh on full electronic mode, but here of course come the numerous problems linked to a slow readout speed (rolling shutter, banding, flickering), all of them more intense than in EFCS....Show more →
Any impact on bokeh of EFCS requires both of two conditions: Very large maximum aperture (1.2 or 1.4) and very high shutter speed (at least 1/1000th of a second, many say more than 1/2000th). Mark Galer's opinion is that even under those circumstances that the impact is slight and not worth worrying about.
p.8 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
engel001 wrote:
A7cR does have menu items for anti-flicker and variable shutter items. Do these not suffice even if it only has second mechanical curtain?
Yea I have them on my 6700 also and of course my A7RV but honestly im starting to get lost on some of this stuff as well. For ME I just don't think getting into the A7RC is a good idea given I have a paid off A7RV and having the hump for Pro works is not an issue. For hobbyists that don't have the A7RV already and want to get up to 61mpx then maybe the A7RC makes some sense. Im more a little pissed off at Sony for NOT addressing the EVF and I think we all should be as well. Thats not listening to your customers and that bugs me. Which leads me to thinking today is a good Golf Day.
p.8 #14 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
FMTopFan wrote:
🫣
I find it ironic that on launch day of A7cR, all the headlines should be about how great Sony is, how smart their engineers are, how much they listen to photographers, how it is a revolutionary product etc, but...
Instead, by my estimate 90% of "Most Popular" posts on DPReview are talking about how "trashy" the EVF, LCD and shutter are.
Then there is Richard Butler from DPReview defending Sony in every technical way possible.
I wouldn't go so far to say Sony has mangled this release, but it's NOT a good look for them right now.
Respectfully, what is this post? We don't need to care about what percentage of people on another site are talking about.
On topic: The cameras themselves are a trade - smaller size for a reduced feature set. Is it reasonable that the CII and CR would exactly match the capabilities of the A7IV and A7RV respectively at a lower price point with the only difference being the form factor? No, IMO. If the compromises are too much for you, stick with the full size bodies. I liked the original C and am preordering the CII as I'm about to start traveling for work now and the CII/28-60/40G is a small and capable enough combo to fit in my backpack along with my work gear without being overly obtrusive. It's substantively smaller than my A7IV/24-70GM2 which would require bringing a separate bag. The front dial, A7IV sensor, and other minor enhancements are appreciated for me over the original C.
p.8 #15 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Palmguy wrote:
Respectfully, what is this post? We don't need to care about what percentage of people on another site are talking about.
On topic: The cameras themselves are a trade - smaller size for a reduced feature set. Is it reasonable that the CII and CR would exactly match the capabilities of the A7IV and A7RV respectively at a lower price point with the only difference being the form factor? No, IMO. If the compromises are too much for you, stick with the full size bodies. I liked the original C and am preordering the CII as I'm about to start traveling for work now and the CII/28-60/40G is a small and capable enough combo to fit in my backpack along with my work gear without being overly obtrusive. It's substantively smaller than my A7IV/24-70GM2 which would require bringing a separate bag. The front dial, A7IV sensor, and other minor enhancements are appreciated for me over the original C. ...Show more →
Hey the release of the A7r5 started a bitch session about why the A1 could not get a firmware upgrade with the added features in the A7R5. That’s just the way people are…getting out of bed with the glass half full.
p.8 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I don’t think the C series was designed to be used with fast glass which is typically larger and heavier. These are designed to be small, for active people who want a small kit using lenses at f/2.8-16. If I was consistently using 1.2 or 1.4 lenses I’d want a camera that balanced better with heavier glass and offered a mechanical shutter…especially if I’m being paid for portraits at 1.4 or 1.2 as any change to bokeh could be unwelcome.
p.8 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
In the end I ordered both the a7CII and the a7CR but I will cancel one before they ship. I just couldn’t decide. I think the CR is more fairly priced but the CII is overpriced by about $200-$300. I travel often and that is when I take 95% of my photos now but I’m not convinced I need 61 megapixels either.
p.8 #18 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chiron wrote:
Any impact on bokeh of EFCS requires both of two conditions: Very large maximum aperture (1.2 or 1.4) and very high shutter speed (at least 1/1000th of a second, many say more than 1/2000th). Mark Galer's opinion is that even under those circumstances that the impact is slight and not worth worrying about.
You don't need large aperture. If your SS is high enough (I'd say it gets noticeable from 1/2000s rather than 1/1000s), the bokeh/blur will be degraded...
p.8 #19 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I do wonder if the EFCS only is a result of its size. The 6700, overall, is roughly the same size, but has a much smaller sensor and shutter. It was probably easier for them to move the energy created by the movement of that small shutter away from the sensor. The larger shutter in an equally small space may have presented problems greater than the bokeh issue we get with a rear curtain-only arrangement. They took a lot of heat with the performance of the full-mechanical shutter on the original a7r. Maybe they think it's best to avoid that here.
p.8 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
jwpstl wrote:
I don’t think the C series was designed to be used with fast glass which is typically larger and heavier. These are designed to be small, for active people who want a small kit using lenses at f/2.8-16. If I was consistently using 1.2 or 1.4 lenses I’d want a camera that balanced better with heavier glass and offered a mechanical shutter…especially if I’m being paid for portraits at 1.4 or 1.2 as any change to bokeh could be unwelcome.
I’m coming around to this opinion too. The more I think about it, for me this is going to be a street/travel camera, a photo/video backup, or something to chase my 20-month old daughter. I’ll be carrying smaller lenses and regularly shooting at smaller apertures anyway. And since I shoot a lot of video, I always have 2-9 stops of ND in my bag. If I want to use fast glass I’ll just cut my SS with the ND. I think I’ve talked myself into shifting my a7IV for the a7cII 😂
