Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
p.18 #1Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
The more I think of it, the more I realize that I could be perfectly happy with a A7cR camera, since I am with a A7c as for now. No doubt A7cII/R cameras are upgrades from the A7c in most respects (unfortunately for me, most upgrades are software related more than hardware related). What I, actually, found frustrating must be their asking price, in fact. I am most interested in the "R" version, and that one has a "professional" price while not being (as many have mentioned here) a professional camera. That's it. For me. Here I can relate it with a Leica, really. For me, the maximum I would pay for the R is about 1,5k on top of my A7c. Nothing more. And even that is for no reason, since it won't help me make better pictures. But, at least, I could travel lighter (one camera, one lens) and crop later.
Sep 01, 2023 at 08:21 PM
p.18 #2Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
I understand the shortcomings, but am very excited about the new cameras and voted with my wallet.Here is my positive view of the A7cr:
Amazing AF coupled with an amazing sensor packaged into a nice easy to carry body along with a couple of nice compact primes is travel photography heaven.😁
Honestly I assume you plan on picking one of these up. For what you post about shooting it seems like it'd fit perfectly and be a worthwhile upgrade.
Jeff Kott wrote
It’s nice to see some positive posts finally.I understand the shortcomings, but am very excited about the new cameras and voted with my wallet.
Amazing AF coupled with an amazing sensor packaged into a nice easy to carry body along with a couple of nice compact primes is travel photography heaven.😁
Honestly I assume you plan on picking one of these up. For what you post about shooting it seems like it'd fit perfectly and be a worthwhile upgrade.
Sep 01, 2023 at 08:35 PM
p.18 #3Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
joychris wrote:
First, the flip out screen is a huge hindrance to street shooting. Not only does it extends the footprint of the camera, not good in crowds where space is tight, as someone or something could easily gets caught by the stupid extended screen, which at best would cause unexpected jerks or injury, or at worst injury and also loss of camera.
Also, for low angle shooting, since screen is extended way to the left side of the camera, if you are holding it out with right hand shooting a subject to the right you will NOT be able to see the screen because it's freaking blocked by the camera. Sure, the screen can be flipped 90-degree to the left to maintain visibility, but try doing this dozens and dozens of times in a day of shooting, and constantly bringing it closer to you and then adjusting with left hand, it would make me want to throw it into the river.
Don't get me started on using flip-out screen for high angle shots. Use your imagination for the problems.
Last but not least, one-handed shooting is basically out of the window, because there is no way I can adjust the tilt angle without getting my left hand involved, whereas without the flip first, even while holding the camera with just the right hand, I can still use the thumb to nudge the degree of tilt a bit in a pinch.
I really feel like A7cR was designed by a team of cool engineers who hate photographers or anyone who is not hybrid shooter or selfie-obsessed. (please note the "feel" word, I have no facts to support this assertion, so please don't attack me for being biased against Sony engineers )
Finally, if your suggestion is, get a A7R5, please save it, because I want a small lightweight 61MP camera for travel
Edit: I think I might have to follow @nhsonyshooter@@@@@@'s advice, which is "wait 3 years?"Just watch a couple of Pierre T Lamberts street photo videos, he uses the a7IV almost exclusively. Nothing you bring up is an actual issue in use. You just tweak the way you work a bit. You’re seriously overthinking it. It’s far better for any low or high angle shot because you’re not limited by the more restrictive tilt only angle.
If it bugs you that much just don’t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it’s this or look elsewhere.
They nailed the design, it’s perfect for what it is.
ChrisFunny you bring him up because he is not buying one. So for him, "Perfect" it is not. That said it may be perfect for you! Which in that case I'm happy for you. The point of a compact camera to me is; well for it to be compact. Having to flip out a screen to the side and rotate it doubles the size of the camera. Which kinda defeats the purpose. With the RV screen you can do anything and please everyone. It would have been a much smarter choice for a "C" (compact) camera. But it cost probably another 3 dollars to make. So, to your point. Some of us will pass and wait for version 3.Yes he wants dual cards and other things on the bigger bodies, plus he already has the a1, a7IV and a7sIII- for what he does those are all better options and he doesn’t want to spend the cash on another camera. But that doesn’t change the fact a flip screen doesn’t hinder street shooting in any way. For many of us it makes it a lot easier. These made up catastrophe scenarios are just hilarious from people that don’t want it. If it’s a dealbreaker, I don’t know why there’s so much teeth gnashing over the hard points that aren’t going to change before the camera ships. Sony doesn’t waver from the way they design their segments. How long have people - myself included - asked for an aps-c camera in the a7 body? SAR has been teasing a mythical a7000 for a decade. Crickets. Sony execs have said over and over they’re keeping crop cameras compact. It’s never going to happen. They said in the release of the new C’s the a7c and ZV series have been huge sellers so they’re going hard at the compact FF segment. Version 3 will not change much and the cycle of these complaints will repeat. Good luck.
ChrisThere are real world disadvantages to a flip out for photography. They are not made up despite what you think. Again if it works for you and your style, great. Doesn't change the fact it doesn't meet others needs.Sure, use what works for you. I don’t agree with the disadvantages thing, it’s all good for me and obviously many others. If you want this camera and don’t like some of the spec, you just have to live with compromises. If you don’t like it that much, just use something else and ignore this camera. Every new release is just endless complaints and negativity.
Chris
Of course you disagree, you think the camera is "perfect". No real surprise there. Which means you obviously don't shoot the same way I do or many others. Which is fine. Part of the beauty of photography is the different styles and different looks that can be used and created. But that still doesn't mean people can't be disappointed about a camera's short comings. But that's the world we live in today. If someone has a different opinion it's being "negative" or "complaining". What is most disappointing is Sony had the solution to make both sides happy in this case. They just didn't think the extra 3 bucks was worth it. I can tell you for a fact they would sell more A7CR's if they did nothing else but add the RV screen. But we will have to wait till gen 3 I guess.
nhsonyshooter wrote
joychris wrote
nhsonyshooter wrote
joychris wrote
FMTopFan wrote
Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with the flip out screen of the A7cR?First, the flip out screen is a huge hindrance to street shooting. Not only does it extends the footprint of the camera, not good in crowds where space is tight, as someone or something could easily gets caught by the stupid extended screen, which at best would cause unexpected jerks or injury, or at worst injury and also loss of camera.
Also, for low angle shooting, since screen is extended way to the left side of the camera, if you are holding it out with right hand shooting a subject to the right you will NOT be able to see the screen because it's freaking blocked by the camera. Sure, the screen can be flipped 90-degree to the left to maintain visibility, but try doing this dozens and dozens of times in a day of shooting, and constantly bringing it closer to you and then adjusting with left hand, it would make me want to throw it into the river.
Don't get me started on using flip-out screen for high angle shots. Use your imagination for the problems.
Last but not least, one-handed shooting is basically out of the window, because there is no way I can adjust the tilt angle without getting my left hand involved, whereas without the flip first, even while holding the camera with just the right hand, I can still use the thumb to nudge the degree of tilt a bit in a pinch.
I really feel like A7cR was designed by a team of cool engineers who hate photographers or anyone who is not hybrid shooter or selfie-obsessed. (please note the "feel" word, I have no facts to support this assertion, so please don't attack me for being biased against Sony engineers
) Finally, if your suggestion is, get a A7R5, please save it, because I want a small lightweight 61MP camera for travel
Edit: I think I might have to follow @nhsonyshooter@@@@@@'s advice, which is "wait 3 years?"
If it bugs you that much just don’t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it’s this or look elsewhere.
They nailed the design, it’s perfect for what it is.
Chris
Chris
Chris
Of course you disagree, you think the camera is "perfect". No real surprise there. Which means you obviously don't shoot the same way I do or many others. Which is fine. Part of the beauty of photography is the different styles and different looks that can be used and created. But that still doesn't mean people can't be disappointed about a camera's short comings. But that's the world we live in today. If someone has a different opinion it's being "negative" or "complaining". What is most disappointing is Sony had the solution to make both sides happy in this case. They just didn't think the extra 3 bucks was worth it. I can tell you for a fact they would sell more A7CR's if they did nothing else but add the RV screen. But we will have to wait till gen 3 I guess.
Sep 01, 2023 at 09:06 PM
p.18 #4Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
BillD208 wrote:
Besides this forum I also follow an audiophile forum. I've yet to meet a single person on there that's happy with their current system. It's the nature of the game I suppose.
It's interesting you mention audiophile forums. I follow multiple audiophile forums too and our A7CII/R discussions here has reminded me of an interesting dialog on an audiophile forum about a piece of latest and hottest audio gear.
This audiophile forum member has been posting a lot about how much his likes and enjoys this newly released piece of revolutionary audio gear. Then whole bunch of people jumped on him and said how sick they are of his pages of "positive" experiences and wished he would stop posting how much he enjoys it, simply because the way he enjoys it are not "scientific" enough.
So basically even when someone is posting about his happy experiences, some people would still find something wrong and label what he does as "negative."
It got so bad to the point that the moderator had to step in and state that this "positive" guy has all the right to share his experiences, and if other people are offended by his passions to share, then it's their own problems. Besides, no member has the right to limit or curb others from expressing his experiences.
Is there a point? Perhaps we can all look inwards first before labeling this or that to be positive or negatives which creates unnecessary divisions. I strongly believe it is possible to conduct constructive criticisms (especially towards multi-billion dollar international corporations) and/or share ideas intellectually without having to always first label something as positive/negative or happy/unhappy. Also, I don't believe that limiting sharing of views to a specific type is healthy either, because this implies censorship. Censorship curbs more participation.
In any case, this is not my house. The owner gets to set the rules based on his priorities and guiding principles.
I just want to say I have learned so much from everyone's participation about the A7CII/R, so a sincere thank you to your thoughts, ideas, and frank exchanges. Hopefully some of my posts have helped someone here too.
Good luck everyone and happy shooting!
Besides this forum I also follow an audiophile forum. I've yet to meet a single person on there that's happy with their current system. It's the nature of the game I suppose.
It's interesting you mention audiophile forums. I follow multiple audiophile forums too and our A7CII/R discussions here has reminded me of an interesting dialog on an audiophile forum about a piece of latest and hottest audio gear.
This audiophile forum member has been posting a lot about how much his likes and enjoys this newly released piece of revolutionary audio gear. Then whole bunch of people jumped on him and said how sick they are of his pages of "positive" experiences and wished he would stop posting how much he enjoys it, simply because the way he enjoys it are not "scientific" enough.
So basically even when someone is posting about his happy experiences, some people would still find something wrong and label what he does as "negative."
It got so bad to the point that the moderator had to step in and state that this "positive" guy has all the right to share his experiences, and if other people are offended by his passions to share, then it's their own problems. Besides, no member has the right to limit or curb others from expressing his experiences.
Is there a point? Perhaps we can all look inwards first before labeling this or that to be positive or negatives which creates unnecessary divisions. I strongly believe it is possible to conduct constructive criticisms (especially towards multi-billion dollar international corporations) and/or share ideas intellectually without having to always first label something as positive/negative or happy/unhappy. Also, I don't believe that limiting sharing of views to a specific type is healthy either, because this implies censorship. Censorship curbs more participation.
In any case, this is not my house. The owner gets to set the rules based on his priorities and guiding principles.
I just want to say I have learned so much from everyone's participation about the A7CII/R, so a sincere thank you to your thoughts, ideas, and frank exchanges. Hopefully some of my posts have helped someone here too.
Good luck everyone and happy shooting!
Sep 01, 2023 at 09:26 PM
p.18 #5Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Both are video oriented cameras which isn’t surprising. What I am bit surprised about is the LCD, EVF and no additional buttons/ergo improvement on the a7cR vs the a7c2. I was hoping for a tilt rear screen, a better (not great) EVF and one or two more physical buttons. That high MP is a real thing though, and the better IBIS and front wheel are nice. As a travel and MF camera, nice AF is always welcome and higher FPS, but you really need to push modern cameras to feel a difference.
Oh well. No real need to update. Probably get a a7r3 or q2 and keep my a7cIt is nearly identical. The only visible difference between it and my rII's EVF is I have that one set to mono. That said, it's not terrible. Just disappointing.
As usual, except for the Q2 thing, I like the way you're thinking. I could pick up a used a7c, where the small grip makes it perfect for the wide angle bellows on the Actus, the couple of parts I need to rebuild the Actus, lens plates, including an F-mount plate because, now that I know I have additional IC to use on the Milvus 18 and APO-Sonnar 135, I plan to use it. That would get me back to happy with the ponderous landscape camera. And then an R camera for everything else the 50sII does, like time lapses and ponderous scapes in places where the Actus isn't welcome.
Assuming my GFX sale goes through on Friday, I think this is my plan. Then it comes down to deciding on the R model. The rIII has a sensor I know and love in a body I know and love with an EVF that's equal to what I have with the GFX. Plus it would leave me with money left over. Or I could spend it all and go with the rIV which has a couple million more dots on the EVF. Decisions, decisions.Yes, not terrible, just disappointing. I did hope for a bit better on the a7cR though. Lol--I really liked the Q2 operationally and the lens itself. Honestly, surprised how much I enjoyed using it. Just a stiff asking price. Realistically, I am one of those shooters who gets by well over half the time with a single lens, generally a 28-35mm lens for a majority of my shooting. And I have never been entirely happy with my Sony options (the 35i is my preferred option, but still a bit too big for my liking) or RF options (no AF on the occasions I want it and a modded sensor is needed).
Anyway, the way you're using the Milvus 18 and Sonnar is good. Ponderous landscape cameras are lovely with deliberate pace--still miss my Mamiya 7 with it's 10 photos per frame. Better be careful and sure before those leaf shutters close. Sometimes I cap myself with how many pics I'll take on my digitals just to force myself to be more intelligent when shooting.
I had GFX 50R but I didn't find it worth the hassle over an a7r2 or a7r3 in terms of IQ. Their 100mp MF sensors would be a big enough step up for me to justify it. I love what Hassleblad has done with the X2D + 38v.
In my experience, I don't prefer the a7rIV as the fourth gen. bodies are simply to large and I prefer the 42mp sensor to the 61mp of the r4. Its actually my favorite FF sensor on the market I've shot. To me, the r4's super EVF is really the only attraction. The AF is already worse than the a7c I think. And I don't need great AF. Doesn't sound like you do either.It is, but our disappointment isn't going to stop them from selling a boatload.
I won't mock you for your Qness if you don't mock me for my latest solo lens obsession; the 6700 and the Zony 24/1.8. I forgot how fun that lens can be.
Yeah, there's no change in IQ with the 50MP sensor. I had a question about it being the best way to use the Rodenstock 35/60/100. The answer is; it's a brilliant use of those lenses, it's just not the way I want to use them. Anyway, as of today, I have joined the former GFX owner club. My coworker was able to complete the sale of his Leica gear early, so he walked in ready to finish the deal. And I turned around and sent a small portion of those funds to our video editing manager to acquire her low-mileage a7c, because our office is nothing if not a camera swap meet. And the necessary Actus parts will hopefully ship early next week.
You're right, I don't need the best AF, since that's what the 6700 is for. I got to handle an rIII and rIVa side-by-side today and, if I were forced to choose now, I'd probably go for the rIV because the grip's a lot more comfortable with teles and superteles and I can reliably focus the APO-Sonnar wide open from MFD to about sixty feet without relying on magnification, which is something I can't do with the rIII. Fortunately, there's no rush. I can probably put it off until the 300/2.8 GM ship date gets closer. The only thing decided for now is to go with the "a" version of one of them, because the improved LCD will come in handy for macro.Haha--throwback to the ol' ZA 24/1.8. Never shot it, but it was awfully beloved in it's day. What would be the way to use those Rodenstock lenses? And don't worry on teasing me about the Q-ness. A little banter is welcome levity and make the otherwise hyper technical (though valuable) content flow better. Besides, you might realize I am on to something 
Usability and simplicity are so much more appealing to my photographic life than they were even a couple years ago. Also, aside from the annoyance of adapting, did you ever shoot the ZA 135/1.8? What are you...Show more →
Oof. The best way to use Rodenstocks. That's a topic that would probably get a heady thread going at GetDPI. Because my trio has smaller ICs, my guess is most of them would say tech-camera X and a digital back with the same sensor that's in the 50sII, only because there's no BSI version of that sensor and no one's dropped the 100MP sensor into a DB yet (I think there's some justifiable hope Hassy will fulfill those wishes). I did time with DBs on the Actus and it wasn't for me. Just keeping the sensor clean was impossible. The BSI sensors and thinner sensor stack on the Sonys will allow me dig deeper into the IC outside Rodenstock's advertised (and conservative) limits. While I'm stuck at 24MP with the 35, that's still a heady amount of resolution when pano'd out to a full 645 frame. With the 60 and 100, I can switch to the standard bellows and my future R cam and get ludicrous amounts of resolution. And that's where an a7CR would be brilliant.
I picked up the Zony 24 for the FX30 where the lack of focus breathing makes it a champ, but I really do love the draw for stills. Overall, I'm having a blast with the 6700. They didn't get everything right, but they finally made an APSC camera that's more fun to shoot than an NEX-7. Regarding the Zony 135/1.8, I owned it when I was shooting the a99 and then again when I picked up an a99II. If I couldn't have the APO-Sonnar, I'd have that and suck up the minor weight and usability differences. It's every bit as gorgeous at wide apertures and just as crisp and clean stopped down, plus it focuses a little closer and maintains rounder bokeh stopped down. Like most of the A mount ZAs, CA is its biggest flaw, but nothing that can't be corrected. It's a beast (with an adapter, it'll be 400 or more grams over your weight limit), but a glorious one.
freaklikeme wrote
nehemiahphoto wrote
freaklikeme wrote
nehemiahphoto wrote
I’ll need to toy with a a6700 to see just how small that EVF feels. It looks to be nearly identical to the original A7 in both res and magnification.Both are video oriented cameras which isn’t surprising. What I am bit surprised about is the LCD, EVF and no additional buttons/ergo improvement on the a7cR vs the a7c2. I was hoping for a tilt rear screen, a better (not great) EVF and one or two more physical buttons. That high MP is a real thing though, and the better IBIS and front wheel are nice. As a travel and MF camera, nice AF is always welcome and higher FPS, but you really need to push modern cameras to feel a difference.
Oh well. No real need to update. Probably get a a7r3 or q2 and keep my a7c
As usual, except for the Q2 thing, I like the way you're thinking. I could pick up a used a7c, where the small grip makes it perfect for the wide angle bellows on the Actus, the couple of parts I need to rebuild the Actus, lens plates, including an F-mount plate because, now that I know I have additional IC to use on the Milvus 18 and APO-Sonnar 135, I plan to use it. That would get me back to happy with the ponderous landscape camera. And then an R camera for everything else the 50sII does, like time lapses and ponderous scapes in places where the Actus isn't welcome.
Assuming my GFX sale goes through on Friday, I think this is my plan. Then it comes down to deciding on the R model. The rIII has a sensor I know and love in a body I know and love with an EVF that's equal to what I have with the GFX. Plus it would leave me with money left over. Or I could spend it all and go with the rIV which has a couple million more dots on the EVF. Decisions, decisions.
Anyway, the way you're using the Milvus 18 and Sonnar is good. Ponderous landscape cameras are lovely with deliberate pace--still miss my Mamiya 7 with it's 10 photos per frame. Better be careful and sure before those leaf shutters close. Sometimes I cap myself with how many pics I'll take on my digitals just to force myself to be more intelligent when shooting.
I had GFX 50R but I didn't find it worth the hassle over an a7r2 or a7r3 in terms of IQ. Their 100mp MF sensors would be a big enough step up for me to justify it. I love what Hassleblad has done with the X2D + 38v.
In my experience, I don't prefer the a7rIV as the fourth gen. bodies are simply to large and I prefer the 42mp sensor to the 61mp of the r4. Its actually my favorite FF sensor on the market I've shot. To me, the r4's super EVF is really the only attraction. The AF is already worse than the a7c I think. And I don't need great AF. Doesn't sound like you do either.
I won't mock you for your Qness if you don't mock me for my latest solo lens obsession; the 6700 and the Zony 24/1.8. I forgot how fun that lens can be.
Yeah, there's no change in IQ with the 50MP sensor. I had a question about it being the best way to use the Rodenstock 35/60/100. The answer is; it's a brilliant use of those lenses, it's just not the way I want to use them. Anyway, as of today, I have joined the former GFX owner club. My coworker was able to complete the sale of his Leica gear early, so he walked in ready to finish the deal. And I turned around and sent a small portion of those funds to our video editing manager to acquire her low-mileage a7c, because our office is nothing if not a camera swap meet. And the necessary Actus parts will hopefully ship early next week.
You're right, I don't need the best AF, since that's what the 6700 is for. I got to handle an rIII and rIVa side-by-side today and, if I were forced to choose now, I'd probably go for the rIV because the grip's a lot more comfortable with teles and superteles and I can reliably focus the APO-Sonnar wide open from MFD to about sixty feet without relying on magnification, which is something I can't do with the rIII. Fortunately, there's no rush. I can probably put it off until the 300/2.8 GM ship date gets closer. The only thing decided for now is to go with the "a" version of one of them, because the improved LCD will come in handy for macro.
Usability and simplicity are so much more appealing to my photographic life than they were even a couple years ago. Also, aside from the annoyance of adapting, did you ever shoot the ZA 135/1.8? What are you...Show more →Oof. The best way to use Rodenstocks. That's a topic that would probably get a heady thread going at GetDPI. Because my trio has smaller ICs, my guess is most of them would say tech-camera X and a digital back with the same sensor that's in the 50sII, only because there's no BSI version of that sensor and no one's dropped the 100MP sensor into a DB yet (I think there's some justifiable hope Hassy will fulfill those wishes). I did time with DBs on the Actus and it wasn't for me. Just keeping the sensor clean was impossible. The BSI sensors and thinner sensor stack on the Sonys will allow me dig deeper into the IC outside Rodenstock's advertised (and conservative) limits. While I'm stuck at 24MP with the 35, that's still a heady amount of resolution when pano'd out to a full 645 frame. With the 60 and 100, I can switch to the standard bellows and my future R cam and get ludicrous amounts of resolution. And that's where an a7CR would be brilliant.
I picked up the Zony 24 for the FX30 where the lack of focus breathing makes it a champ, but I really do love the draw for stills. Overall, I'm having a blast with the 6700. They didn't get everything right, but they finally made an APSC camera that's more fun to shoot than an NEX-7. Regarding the Zony 135/1.8, I owned it when I was shooting the a99 and then again when I picked up an a99II. If I couldn't have the APO-Sonnar, I'd have that and suck up the minor weight and usability differences. It's every bit as gorgeous at wide apertures and just as crisp and clean stopped down, plus it focuses a little closer and maintains rounder bokeh stopped down. Like most of the A mount ZAs, CA is its biggest flaw, but nothing that can't be corrected. It's a beast (with an adapter, it'll be 400 or more grams over your weight limit), but a glorious one.
Sep 02, 2023 at 12:16 AM
p.18 #6Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
nhsonyshooter wrote:
If it bugs you that much just don’t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it’s this or look elsewhere.
They nailed the design, it’s perfect for what it is.
ChrisFunny you bring him up because he is not buying one. So for him, "Perfect" it is not. That said it may be perfect for you! Which in that case I'm happy for you. The point of a compact camera to me is; well for it to be compact. Having to flip out a screen to the side and rotate it doubles the size of the camera. Which kinda defeats the purpose. With the RV screen you can do anything and please everyone. It would have been a much smarter choice for a "C" (compact) camera. But it cost probably another 3 dollars to make. So, to your point. Some of us will pass and wait for version 3.Yes he wants dual cards and other things on the bigger bodies, plus he already has the a1, a7IV and a7sIII- for what he does those are all better options and he doesn’t want to spend the cash on another camera. But that doesn’t change the fact a flip screen doesn’t hinder street shooting in any way. For many of us it makes it a lot easier. These made up catastrophe scenarios are just hilarious from people that don’t want it. If it’s a dealbreaker, I don’t know why there’s so much teeth gnashing over the hard points that aren’t going to change before the camera ships. Sony doesn’t waver from the way they design their segments. How long have people - myself included - asked for an aps-c camera in the a7 body? SAR has been teasing a mythical a7000 for a decade. Crickets. Sony execs have said over and over they’re keeping crop cameras compact. It’s never going to happen. They said in the release of the new C’s the a7c and ZV series have been huge sellers so they’re going hard at the compact FF segment. Version 3 will not change much and the cycle of these complaints will repeat. Good luck.
ChrisThere are real world disadvantages to a flip out for photography. They are not made up despite what you think. Again if it works for you and your style, great. Doesn't change the fact it doesn't meet others needs.Sure, use what works for you. I don’t agree with the disadvantages thing, it’s all good for me and obviously many others. If you want this camera and don’t like some of the spec, you just have to live with compromises. If you don’t like it that much, just use something else and ignore this camera. Every new release is just endless complaints and negativity.
ChrisOf course you disagree, you think the camera is "perfect". No real surprise there. Which means you obviously don't shoot the same way I do or many others. Which is fine. Part of the beauty of photography is the different styles and different looks that can be used and created. But that still doesn't mean people can't be disappointed about a camera's short comings. But that's the world we live in today. If someone has a different opinion it's being "negative" or "complaining". What is most disappointing is Sony had the solution to make both sides happy in this case....Show more →
No the negative and complaining part is pages and pages of the same stuff rehashed over and over. It is what it is and it’s not going to change despite your “extra 3 bucks” BS when you have no idea what it costs and the fact it would require the camera to be larger and gain weight. So it wouldn’t please everyone since it would not be as compact - the whole point of the C line. Sony knows better than you what will move more units. That camera you want already exists, it’s called the a7rV. So why keep harping on it? It’s just bizarre. I don’t like the ZVE1 because I’ll take a mediocre EVF over no EVF. This is literally the first time I’ve posted that.
And to clarify, I said perfect as in a perfect small FF hybrid. Sure there are warts, I'd like a full mech shutter, better EVF, and a higher Rez LCD, but we aren't getting it and it's not a dealbreaker - so there's no point in droning on about it. The new C's are flat out the most insanely capable hybrid cameras Sony has ever released, and they so compact. So yes I'm stoked about what Sony has done. Buy it or don’t, I don’t care because I’m getting both of them. I’m not going to continue to rehash this silliness, good luck in your search.
Chris
Edited on Sep 02, 2023 at 08:12 AM · View previous versions
joychris wrote
nhsonyshooter wrote
joychris wrote
nhsonyshooter wrote
joychris wrote
Just watch a couple of Pierre T Lamberts street photo videos, he uses the a7IV almost exclusively. Nothing you bring up is an actual issue in use. You just tweak the way you work a bit. You’re seriously overthinking it. It’s far better for any low or high angle shot because you’re not limited by the more restrictive tilt only angle.If it bugs you that much just don’t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it’s this or look elsewhere.
They nailed the design, it’s perfect for what it is.
Chris
Chris
Chris
No the negative and complaining part is pages and pages of the same stuff rehashed over and over. It is what it is and it’s not going to change despite your “extra 3 bucks” BS when you have no idea what it costs and the fact it would require the camera to be larger and gain weight. So it wouldn’t please everyone since it would not be as compact - the whole point of the C line. Sony knows better than you what will move more units. That camera you want already exists, it’s called the a7rV. So why keep harping on it? It’s just bizarre. I don’t like the ZVE1 because I’ll take a mediocre EVF over no EVF. This is literally the first time I’ve posted that.
And to clarify, I said perfect as in a perfect small FF hybrid. Sure there are warts, I'd like a full mech shutter, better EVF, and a higher Rez LCD, but we aren't getting it and it's not a dealbreaker - so there's no point in droning on about it. The new C's are flat out the most insanely capable hybrid cameras Sony has ever released, and they so compact. So yes I'm stoked about what Sony has done. Buy it or don’t, I don’t care because I’m getting both of them. I’m not going to continue to rehash this silliness, good luck in your search.
Chris
Edited on Sep 02, 2023 at 08:12 AM · View previous versions
Sep 02, 2023 at 05:39 AM
p.18 #7Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
They all look great, with some compromises as usual. I’m not buying either,never used 16-35 much, 61mp is too much for me and I don’t need the CII. But, more toys for someone!
Sep 02, 2023 at 06:22 AM
p.18 #8Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
As someone who enjoys shooting with rangefinder form factor cameras, the side placed finder on the C series is to me the key element to prefer them over the standard SLR-esque form factor. I absolutely wouldn't mind having a couple millimetres thicker camera if that meant having a bigger evf and/or the multimovement lcd. It might not apply for everybody, but come on - compact for compact, it just doesn't have a bump in the middle, it's silly to see that as a significant volume difference to justify it being called a compact version.
Different people have different backgrounds and preferences, it's for sure not easy to cater to everyone's wishes, I'm sure there must have been a lot of discussion inside Sony about all the features that have been nagging points for all of us, but it's how things work in real life. Sometimes costs, suppliers, audience feedback and sales projections considering different sets of features don't please everyone, not even the ones who are making the product.
I obviously would love a camera with this form factor but with a kick ass resolution evf, A7RV screen, global electronic shutter, the same grip of the default A7 series and so on, but I am pretty content with what was launched, as I am pretty happy with my current A7C - so any improvement is welcome already.
Different people have different backgrounds and preferences, it's for sure not easy to cater to everyone's wishes, I'm sure there must have been a lot of discussion inside Sony about all the features that have been nagging points for all of us, but it's how things work in real life. Sometimes costs, suppliers, audience feedback and sales projections considering different sets of features don't please everyone, not even the ones who are making the product.
I obviously would love a camera with this form factor but with a kick ass resolution evf, A7RV screen, global electronic shutter, the same grip of the default A7 series and so on, but I am pretty content with what was launched, as I am pretty happy with my current A7C - so any improvement is welcome already.
Sep 02, 2023 at 07:08 AM
p.18 #9Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
Edited on Sep 02, 2023 at 08:47 AM · View previous versions
Edited on Sep 02, 2023 at 08:47 AM · View previous versions
Sep 02, 2023 at 07:17 AM
p.18 #10Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV @nd two A12 I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution?
That's a good question. The A7CII has a small bump in resolution over the A7C and lots of ergo and AF improvements, so it feels to me like a very worthwhile upgrade, though not a "necessary" one--you can still take the same photos with either the A7C or with the CII. The CII seems to have video enhancements that I don't think the Cr shares and which may attract some users. I wish the Cr weren't $3K, but as someone else pointed out there has been about 25% inflation generally since the A7C was introduced. I don't think the video enhancements on the CII interfere at all with the handling or performance for stills, something that does concern me a bit about the a6700 with its dedicated wheel for shifting between stills and video modes but not having a third wheel for exp compensation.
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV @nd two A12 I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution?
That's a good question. The A7CII has a small bump in resolution over the A7C and lots of ergo and AF improvements, so it feels to me like a very worthwhile upgrade, though not a "necessary" one--you can still take the same photos with either the A7C or with the CII. The CII seems to have video enhancements that I don't think the Cr shares and which may attract some users. I wish the Cr weren't $3K, but as someone else pointed out there has been about 25% inflation generally since the A7C was introduced. I don't think the video enhancements on the CII interfere at all with the handling or performance for stills, something that does concern me a bit about the a6700 with its dedicated wheel for shifting between stills and video modes but not having a third wheel for exp compensation.
Sep 02, 2023 at 07:42 AM
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p.18 #11Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chiron wrote:
That's a good question. The A7CII has a small bump in resolution over the A7C and lots of ergo and AF improvements, so it feels to me like a very worthwhile upgrade, though not a "necessary" one--you can still take the same photos with either the A7C or with the CII. The CII seems to have video enhancements that I don't think the Cr shares and which may attract some users. I wish the Cr weren't $3K, but as someone else pointed out there has been about 25% inflation generally since the A7C was introduced. I don't think the video...Show more →
I find exposure compensation on the A6700 very easy. Push down on the bottom of the rear scroll wheel and then adjust your EC fight or left go +/- or if you like touch the screen to select it. No different than ISO by pushing down on the right side of the scroll wheel and then setting it. Give it a try.
swldstn wrote
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV @nd two A12 I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution?I find exposure compensation on the A6700 very easy. Push down on the bottom of the rear scroll wheel and then adjust your EC fight or left go +/- or if you like touch the screen to select it. No different than ISO by pushing down on the right side of the scroll wheel and then setting it. Give it a try.
Sep 02, 2023 at 08:55 AM
p.18 #12Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
That's a good question. The A7CII has a small bump in resolution over the A7C and lots of ergo and AF improvements, so it feels to me like a very worthwhile upgrade, though not a "necessary" one--you can still take the same photos with either the A7C or with the CII. The CII seems to have video enhancements that I don't think the Cr shares and which may attract some users. I wish the Cr weren't $3K, but as someone else pointed out there has been about 25% inflation generally since the A7C was introduced. I don't think the video enhancements on the CII interfere at all with the handling or performance for stills, something that does concern me a bit about the a6700 with its dedicated wheel for shifting between stills and video modes but not having a third wheel for exp compensation.I find exposure compensation on the A6700 very easy. Push down on the bottom of the rear scroll wheel and then adjust your EC fight or left go +/- or if you like touch the screen to select it. No different than ISO by pushing down on the right side of the scroll wheel and then setting it. Give it a try.
Yes that certainly would work, but for me personally the different procedure from my cameras with an exp comp wheel would be an annoying distraction. I'm very used to the exp comp wheel, which I use a lot, and I like as much uniformity in ergonomics as possible. The a6700 is I think designed to appeal to hybrid users and changes some of its ergonomics to do that. The CII is also for hybrid users but with no compromise of the ergonomics that I know of. That was the point I was trying to make--I don't own the a6700.
chiron wrote
swldstn wrote
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV @nd two A12 I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution?Yes that certainly would work, but for me personally the different procedure from my cameras with an exp comp wheel would be an annoying distraction. I'm very used to the exp comp wheel, which I use a lot, and I like as much uniformity in ergonomics as possible. The a6700 is I think designed to appeal to hybrid users and changes some of its ergonomics to do that. The CII is also for hybrid users but with no compromise of the ergonomics that I know of. That was the point I was trying to make--I don't own the a6700.
Sep 02, 2023 at 09:03 AM
p.18 #13Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
Isn't this nomal?
For me FW updates are for bugfixing, and since years, I receive them from Sony too!
If I buy a new camera, I know what it delivers and if I don't like it, I don't buy it.
Expecting new features in old bodies is really strange
But not if one is coming from Fujifilm camera systems because they have been adding new features to old cameras for over a decade. But I wouldn’t expect that from other manufacturers.
BoomerNT wrote
...New features and improvements on the same hardware are limited to new year models only...For me FW updates are for bugfixing, and since years, I receive them from Sony too!
If I buy a new camera, I know what it delivers and if I don't like it, I don't buy it.
Expecting new features in old bodies is really strange
But not if one is coming from Fujifilm camera systems because they have been adding new features to old cameras for over a decade. But I wouldn’t expect that from other manufacturers.
Sep 02, 2023 at 09:17 AM
p.18 #14Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
While 61mp is definitely overkill for most of my travel snapshots, all of the big prints in my house are landscape shots from traveling. The extra resolution and cropping ability should be really nice to have. Additionally the R enables you to use an apsc lens like the 70-350 while still maintaining 26mp. These benefits seem huge, however if you don't intend to use apsc for reach or don't need the more modern video features I still think the a7c1 is fine and cheap enough that I'd choose it over a7c2.
There is part of me considering grabbing an a7c1 and a6700 and traveling with 2 cams. I get the reach from apsc and benefit from 2 cameras for quick focal length changes. But give up traveling with just 1 body and high FF resolution images. Still leaning towards keeping my a7CR preorder though.
Sep 02, 2023 at 10:04 AM
p.18 #15Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I used the A6700 for the first time yesterday shooting a few bands. I find I like the exposure compensation on the touch screen more than using it on my A7III. But that's me, ymmv.
Sep 02, 2023 at 10:19 AM
p.18 #16Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
BillD208 wrote:
I used the A6700 for the first time yesterday shooting a few bands. I find I like the exposure compensation on the touch screen more than using it on my A7III. But that's me, ymmv.
Do you have to take your eye away from the viewfinder to change the exposure? If so, that’s a deal breaker for me as the subject moves through different lighting conditions and I can’t track the subject in the viewfinder.
I used the A6700 for the first time yesterday shooting a few bands. I find I like the exposure compensation on the touch screen more than using it on my A7III. But that's me, ymmv.
Do you have to take your eye away from the viewfinder to change the exposure? If so, that’s a deal breaker for me as the subject moves through different lighting conditions and I can’t track the subject in the viewfinder.
Sep 02, 2023 at 10:27 AM
p.18 #17Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I haven't explored all the setttings. Are you asking about changing the exposure compensation? As in setting in some + or -? Because I think I did that fat finger at some point without looking. Oooops.
In Manual, I just checked and the two dials, front and rear will control shutter or aperture, the "meter" at the bottom follows and the screen darkens/lightens.
On the rear control dial, a push at the bottom brings up exposure comp and one can thumb dial it. That might depend on ones dexterity. Perhaps not as easy as having one of the upper wheels? I didn't see on a quick glance at the manual if the wheel can be reprogrammed.
In Manual, I just checked and the two dials, front and rear will control shutter or aperture, the "meter" at the bottom follows and the screen darkens/lightens.
On the rear control dial, a push at the bottom brings up exposure comp and one can thumb dial it. That might depend on ones dexterity. Perhaps not as easy as having one of the upper wheels? I didn't see on a quick glance at the manual if the wheel can be reprogrammed.
Sep 02, 2023 at 10:59 AM
p.18 #18Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I have never had a camera where the controls were laid out perfectly to suit my preference (Nex 7 was pretty close though considering its size). OTOH, I have never had a camera where the control issues bothered me at all after a few weeks of getting used to it. For that reason, I take the comments on the perceived control and operating issues with a big grain of salt.
Sep 02, 2023 at 11:29 AM
p.18 #19Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
"Needed" is just such an individual thing. Having 61 mp available is important for some people and completely not for others (and some are quite happy to point that out). If it were A7Cii or A7CR, not completely ignoring all the other concerns/interests, I'd go for the A7CR for the 61 mp.
For me, I jumped on the a6700 right when it came out.
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
"Needed" is just such an individual thing. Having 61 mp available is important for some people and completely not for others (and some are quite happy to point that out). If it were A7Cii or A7CR, not completely ignoring all the other concerns/interests, I'd go for the A7CR for the 61 mp.
For me, I jumped on the a6700 right when it came out.
Sep 02, 2023 at 11:48 AM
p.18 #20Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Do we need 3 wheels/dials anymore now, that Sony has allowed customization of each one?
I mean, if you're shooting in A/S/P then one wheel is needed for Aperture or Shuttter then the other can control EC.
If you're shooting full Manual, EC doesn't do anything anyway...
TBH, the design differences between A7C II (R) and a6700 are baffling. I'd think it would be easier for everybody for them to operate the same, but now you have to decide if you want a longer grip or an extra dial .
I mean, if you're shooting in A/S/P then one wheel is needed for Aperture or Shuttter then the other can control EC.
If you're shooting full Manual, EC doesn't do anything anyway...
TBH, the design differences between A7C II (R) and a6700 are baffling. I'd think it would be easier for everybody for them to operate the same, but now you have to decide if you want a longer grip or an extra dial
.Sep 02, 2023 at 12:23 PM