p.18 #1 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
The more I think of it, the more I realize that I could be perfectly happy with a A7cR camera, since I am with a A7c as for now. No doubt A7cII/R cameras are upgrades from the A7c in most respects (unfortunately for me, most upgrades are software related more than hardware related). What I, actually, found frustrating must be their asking price, in fact. I am most interested in the "R" version, and that one has a "professional" price while not being (as many have mentioned here) a professional camera. That's it. For me. Here I can relate it with a Leica, really. For me, the maximum I would pay for the R is about 1,5k on top of my A7c. Nothing more. And even that is for no reason, since it won't help me make better pictures. But, at least, I could travel lighter (one camera, one lens) and crop later.
p.18 #2 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
Here is my positive view of the A7cr:
Amazing AF coupled with an amazing sensor packaged into a nice easy to carry body along with a couple of nice compact primes is travel photography heaven.😁
Honestly I assume you plan on picking one of these up. For what you post about shooting it seems like it'd fit perfectly and be a worthwhile upgrade.
p.18 #3 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
joychris wrote:
Sure, use what works for you. I don’t agree with the disadvantages thing, it’s all good for me and obviously many others. If you want this camera and don’t like some of the spec, you just have to live with compromises. If you don’t like it that much, just use something else and ignore this camera. Every new release is just endless complaints and negativity.
Chris
Of course you disagree, you think the camera is "perfect". No real surprise there. Which means you obviously don't shoot the same way I do or many others. Which is fine. Part of the beauty of photography is the different styles and different looks that can be used and created. But that still doesn't mean people can't be disappointed about a camera's short comings. But that's the world we live in today. If someone has a different opinion it's being "negative" or "complaining". What is most disappointing is Sony had the solution to make both sides happy in this case. They just didn't think the extra 3 bucks was worth it. I can tell you for a fact they would sell more A7CR's if they did nothing else but add the RV screen. But we will have to wait till gen 3 I guess.
p.18 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
BillD208 wrote:
Besides this forum I also follow an audiophile forum. I've yet to meet a single person on there that's happy with their current system. It's the nature of the game I suppose.
It's interesting you mention audiophile forums. I follow multiple audiophile forums too and our A7CII/R discussions here has reminded me of an interesting dialog on an audiophile forum about a piece of latest and hottest audio gear.
This audiophile forum member has been posting a lot about how much his likes and enjoys this newly released piece of revolutionary audio gear. Then whole bunch of people jumped on him and said how sick they are of his pages of "positive" experiences and wished he would stop posting how much he enjoys it, simply because the way he enjoys it are not "scientific" enough.
So basically even when someone is posting about his happy experiences, some people would still find something wrong and label what he does as "negative."
It got so bad to the point that the moderator had to step in and state that this "positive" guy has all the right to share his experiences, and if other people are offended by his passions to share, then it's their own problems. Besides, no member has the right to limit or curb others from expressing his experiences.
Is there a point? Perhaps we can all look inwards first before labeling this or that to be positive or negatives which creates unnecessary divisions. I strongly believe it is possible to conduct constructive criticisms (especially towards multi-billion dollar international corporations) and/or share ideas intellectually without having to always first label something as positive/negative or happy/unhappy. Also, I don't believe that limiting sharing of views to a specific type is healthy either, because this implies censorship. Censorship curbs more participation.
In any case, this is not my house. The owner gets to set the rules based on his priorities and guiding principles.
I just want to say I have learned so much from everyone's participation about the A7CII/R, so a sincere thank you to your thoughts, ideas, and frank exchanges. Hopefully some of my posts have helped someone here too.
p.18 #5 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Haha--throwback to the ol' ZA 24/1.8. Never shot it, but it was awfully beloved in it's day. What would be the way to use those Rodenstock lenses? And don't worry on teasing me about the Q-ness. A little banter is welcome levity and make the otherwise hyper technical (though valuable) content flow better. Besides, you might realize I am on to something Usability and simplicity are so much more appealing to my photographic life than they were even a couple years ago. Also, aside from the annoyance of adapting, did you ever shoot the ZA 135/1.8? What are you thoughts on that vs the 135 APO.
I rarely ever use a tele, and when I do it's compact/light (700 or under). The nature of my shooting (and because I have a bad back) simply doesn't allow for it. So, a deeper grip has no appeal for me. The EVF is big though--I handled an a7sIII a while ago--the EVF was glorious. My god. Feels like being at an OmniMax....Show more →
Oof. The best way to use Rodenstocks. That's a topic that would probably get a heady thread going at GetDPI. Because my trio has smaller ICs, my guess is most of them would say tech-camera X and a digital back with the same sensor that's in the 50sII, only because there's no BSI version of that sensor and no one's dropped the 100MP sensor into a DB yet (I think there's some justifiable hope Hassy will fulfill those wishes). I did time with DBs on the Actus and it wasn't for me. Just keeping the sensor clean was impossible. The BSI sensors and thinner sensor stack on the Sonys will allow me dig deeper into the IC outside Rodenstock's advertised (and conservative) limits. While I'm stuck at 24MP with the 35, that's still a heady amount of resolution when pano'd out to a full 645 frame. With the 60 and 100, I can switch to the standard bellows and my future R cam and get ludicrous amounts of resolution. And that's where an a7CR would be brilliant.
I picked up the Zony 24 for the FX30 where the lack of focus breathing makes it a champ, but I really do love the draw for stills. Overall, I'm having a blast with the 6700. They didn't get everything right, but they finally made an APSC camera that's more fun to shoot than an NEX-7. Regarding the Zony 135/1.8, I owned it when I was shooting the a99 and then again when I picked up an a99II. If I couldn't have the APO-Sonnar, I'd have that and suck up the minor weight and usability differences. It's every bit as gorgeous at wide apertures and just as crisp and clean stopped down, plus it focuses a little closer and maintains rounder bokeh stopped down. Like most of the A mount ZAs, CA is its biggest flaw, but nothing that can't be corrected. It's a beast (with an adapter, it'll be 400 or more grams over your weight limit), but a glorious one.
p.18 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Of course you disagree, you think the camera is "perfect". No real surprise there. Which means you obviously don't shoot the same way I do or many others. Which is fine. Part of the beauty of photography is the different styles and different looks that can be used and created. But that still doesn't mean people can't be disappointed about a camera's short comings. But that's the world we live in today. If someone has a different opinion it's being "negative" or "complaining". What is most disappointing is Sony had the solution to make both sides happy in this case. They just didn't think the extra 3 bucks was worth it. I can tell you for a fact they would sell more A7CR's if they did nothing else but add the RV screen. But we will have to wait till gen 3 I guess.
No the negative and complaining part is pages and pages of the same stuff rehashed over and over. It is what it is and it’s not going to change despite your “extra 3 bucks” BS when you have no idea what it costs and the fact it would require the camera to be larger and gain weight. So it wouldn’t please everyone since it would not be as compact - the whole point of the C line. Sony knows better than you what will move more units. That camera you want already exists, it’s called the a7rV. So why keep harping on it? It’s just bizarre. I don’t like the ZVE1 because I’ll take a mediocre EVF over no EVF. This is literally the first time I’ve posted that.
And to clarify, I said perfect as in a perfect small FF hybrid. Sure there are warts, I'd like a full mech shutter, better EVF, and a higher Rez LCD, but we aren't getting it and it's not a dealbreaker - so there's no point in droning on about it. The new C's are flat out the most insanely capable hybrid cameras Sony has ever released, and they so compact. So yes I'm stoked about what Sony has done. Buy it or don’t, I don’t care because I’m getting both of them. I’m not going to continue to rehash this silliness, good luck in your search.
p.18 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
They all look great, with some compromises as usual. I’m not buying either,never used 16-35 much, 61mp is too much for me and I don’t need the CII. But, more toys for someone!
p.18 #8 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
As someone who enjoys shooting with rangefinder form factor cameras, the side placed finder on the C series is to me the key element to prefer them over the standard SLR-esque form factor. I absolutely wouldn't mind having a couple millimetres thicker camera if that meant having a bigger evf and/or the multimovement lcd. It might not apply for everybody, but come on - compact for compact, it just doesn't have a bump in the middle, it's silly to see that as a significant volume difference to justify it being called a compact version.
Different people have different backgrounds and preferences, it's for sure not easy to cater to everyone's wishes, I'm sure there must have been a lot of discussion inside Sony about all the features that have been nagging points for all of us, but it's how things work in real life. Sometimes costs, suppliers, audience feedback and sales projections considering different sets of features don't please everyone, not even the ones who are making the product.
I obviously would love a camera with this form factor but with a kick ass resolution evf, A7RV screen, global electronic shutter, the same grip of the default A7 series and so on, but I am pretty content with what was launched, as I am pretty happy with my current A7C - so any improvement is welcome already.
p.18 #9 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
p.18 #10 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV @nd two A12 I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution?
That's a good question. The A7CII has a small bump in resolution over the A7C and lots of ergo and AF improvements, so it feels to me like a very worthwhile upgrade, though not a "necessary" one--you can still take the same photos with either the A7C or with the CII. The CII seems to have video enhancements that I don't think the Cr shares and which may attract some users. I wish the Cr weren't $3K, but as someone else pointed out there has been about 25% inflation generally since the A7C was introduced. I don't think the video enhancements on the CII interfere at all with the handling or performance for stills, something that does concern me a bit about the a6700 with its dedicated wheel for shifting between stills and video modes but not having a third wheel for exp compensation.
p.18 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chiron wrote:
That's a good question. The A7CII has a small bump in resolution over the A7C and lots of ergo and AF improvements, so it feels to me like a very worthwhile upgrade, though not a "necessary" one--you can still take the same photos with either the A7C or with the CII. The CII seems to have video enhancements that I don't think the Cr shares and which may attract some users. I wish the Cr weren't $3K, but as someone else pointed out there has been about 25% inflation generally since the A7C was introduced. I don't think the video enhancements on the CII interfere at all with the handling or performance for stills, something that does concern me a bit about the a6700 with its dedicated wheel for shifting between stills and video modes but not having a third wheel for exp compensation....Show more →
I find exposure compensation on the A6700 very easy. Push down on the bottom of the rear scroll wheel and then adjust your EC fight or left go +/- or if you like touch the screen to select it. No different than ISO by pushing down on the right side of the scroll wheel and then setting it. Give it a try.
p.18 #12 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
I find exposure compensation on the A6700 very easy. Push down on the bottom of the rear scroll wheel and then adjust your EC fight or left go +/- or if you like touch the screen to select it. No different than ISO by pushing down on the right side of the scroll wheel and then setting it. Give it a try.
Yes that certainly would work, but for me personally the different procedure from my cameras with an exp comp wheel would be an annoying distraction. I'm very used to the exp comp wheel, which I use a lot, and I like as much uniformity in ergonomics as possible. The a6700 is I think designed to appeal to hybrid users and changes some of its ergonomics to do that. The CII is also for hybrid users but with no compromise of the ergonomics that I know of. That was the point I was trying to make--I don't own the a6700.
p.18 #13 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
Isn't this nomal?
For me FW updates are for bugfixing, and since years, I receive them from Sony too!
If I buy a new camera, I know what it delivers and if I don't like it, I don't buy it.
Expecting new features in old bodies is really strange
But not if one is coming from Fujifilm camera systems because they have been adding new features to old cameras for over a decade. But I wouldn’t expect that from other manufacturers.
p.18 #14 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
While 61mp is definitely overkill for most of my travel snapshots, all of the big prints in my house are landscape shots from traveling. The extra resolution and cropping ability should be really nice to have. Additionally the R enables you to use an apsc lens like the 70-350 while still maintaining 26mp. These benefits seem huge, however if you don't intend to use apsc for reach or don't need the more modern video features I still think the a7c1 is fine and cheap enough that I'd choose it over a7c2.
There is part of me considering grabbing an a7c1 and a6700 and traveling with 2 cams. I get the reach from apsc and benefit from 2 cameras for quick focal length changes. But give up traveling with just 1 body and high FF resolution images. Still leaning towards keeping my a7CR preorder though.
p.18 #15 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I used the A6700 for the first time yesterday shooting a few bands. I find I like the exposure compensation on the touch screen more than using it on my A7III. But that's me, ymmv.
p.18 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
BillD208 wrote:
I used the A6700 for the first time yesterday shooting a few bands. I find I like the exposure compensation on the touch screen more than using it on my A7III. But that's me, ymmv.
Do you have to take your eye away from the viewfinder to change the exposure? If so, that’s a deal breaker for me as the subject moves through different lighting conditions and I can’t track the subject in the viewfinder.
p.18 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I haven't explored all the setttings. Are you asking about changing the exposure compensation? As in setting in some + or -? Because I think I did that fat finger at some point without looking. Oooops.
In Manual, I just checked and the two dials, front and rear will control shutter or aperture, the "meter" at the bottom follows and the screen darkens/lightens.
On the rear control dial, a push at the bottom brings up exposure comp and one can thumb dial it. That might depend on ones dexterity. Perhaps not as easy as having one of the upper wheels? I didn't see on a quick glance at the manual if the wheel can be reprogrammed.
p.18 #18 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I have never had a camera where the controls were laid out perfectly to suit my preference (Nex 7 was pretty close though considering its size). OTOH, I have never had a camera where the control issues bothered me at all after a few weeks of getting used to it. For that reason, I take the comments on the perceived control and operating issues with a big grain of salt.
p.18 #19 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
Still going back and forth on the A7C II or A7CR. As I’ve said before since I already own an A7RV and two A1s I’m not sure I need an A7CR. I’m leaning toward the A7C II where I plan to sell my A7 IV now along side my A7C which is already posted on buy & sell. The new A7C II seems to be an upgrade in every respect for travel shooting. Is everyone chasing the A7CR for it’s resolution? Do you really think it’s needed?
"Needed" is just such an individual thing. Having 61 mp available is important for some people and completely not for others (and some are quite happy to point that out). If it were A7Cii or A7CR, not completely ignoring all the other concerns/interests, I'd go for the A7CR for the 61 mp.
For me, I jumped on the a6700 right when it came out.
p.18 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Do we need 3 wheels/dials anymore now, that Sony has allowed customization of each one?
I mean, if you're shooting in A/S/P then one wheel is needed for Aperture or Shuttter then the other can control EC.
If you're shooting full Manual, EC doesn't do anything anyway...
TBH, the design differences between A7C II (R) and a6700 are baffling. I'd think it would be easier for everybody for them to operate the same, but now you have to decide if you want a longer grip or an extra dial .
Usability and simplicity are so much more appealing to my photographic life than they were even a couple years ago. Also, aside from the annoyance of adapting, did you ever shoot the ZA 135/1.8? What are you