p.17 #1 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Sony firmware feels like the business model of traditional car manufacturers to me. You can see that in cars, even if the exact same hardware are used for years (say Audi MMI), it is nearly impossible to get significant improvements for previous year models once they are released. New features and improvements on the same hardware are limited to new year models only and the manufacturers even intentionally put locks to prevent you to get these improvements yourself..
p.17 #2 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Some highlights for me with the a7cII vs a7IV
For $300 less we get a significantly smaller body that’s only 5g heavier than the original.
- AI chip with the best AF of any camera available
- Improved IBIS
- The ability to recognize and track subjects with Clear Image Zoom instead of that zone AF blob
- Vastly improved touch functionality with the swipe gestures
- 4k streaming
- The ability to add LUTs to your video monitoring
- A real time lapse movie mode
- The auto framing video mode
- Focus stacking
The EFCS, single card, EVF, micro hdmi and for some the lack of a joystick is a downgrade. Though with Sony’s tracking, the joystick is slower in use. I shot the a7rII professionally for years so single cards don’t bother me either, I replace all my cards every couple years - zero failures - and I almost always have two bodies.
Ditto most of the above for the a7cR at $900 less than the a7rV. Don’t care about the lack of 8k. But 26mp aps-c mode with CIZ is basically a 3x TC with zero IQ degradation. That 70-200 becomes a 210-600 with a button push. Add a 1.4 or 2x TC and you just get insane reach without needing the big whites.
These bodies and the new LR noise reduction/enhance detail have me completely rethinking my kit that’s mostly 2.8 zooms and big primes. I can get identical results with a pretty dramatic weight reduction in my overall kit by swapping to lenses that are one stop slower or even smaller with those tiny G primes. And I can add the grip or a cage and handle for GM’s and such. It’s totally modular to fit your needs.
The only thing remotely close in terms of size and capability is the Leica Q with the fast 28 I wish Sony would make. But the new C’s completely mop the floor with the Leica in so many ways at a fraction of the price.
p.17 #3 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
joychris wrote:
Though with Sony’s tracking, the joystick is slower in use.
The joystick complements real time tracking. Like you put the AF box where you might need to start AF tracking over and over or when you are waiting for the subject to arrive at that specific spot. Half-press / BBF + recompose works well in most cases, but sometimes moving the box instead is just easier. Joystick is more accurate and less distracting than the touchscreen, too.
p.17 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
GMPhotography wrote:
It’s nice to know exactly what you are buying and not buying. That’s all there is too any negative comments.
There is of course something else going on with all of the negative comments. If the point was just to let people know what they are buying and not buying, 10 or 20 comments on the EVF and flip screen would be more than enough. Instead, it goes on for pages. I won't speculate as to why the expounding on the shortcomings ad nauseam.
On a different note, I have been on these forums (but not super active) for a long time, beginning with when I got a NEX 5N and before the RX1 was released. Way back then, we had literally hundreds if not thousands of posts about how a full frame rendering was greatly superior to a cropped frame rendering. Now when discussing the FF cameras vs. cameras like the 6700, no one mentions rendering. I'm not sure why that issue is now consigned to the dust bins of history.
p.17 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Jeff Kott wrote:
On a different note, I have been on these forums (but not super active) for a long time, beginning with when I got a NEX 5N and before the RX1 was released. Way back then, we had literally hundreds if not thousands of posts about how a full frame rendering was greatly superior to a cropped frame rendering. Now when discussing the FF cameras vs. cameras like the 6700, no one mentions rendering. I'm not sure why that issue is now consigned to the dust bins of history.
You're touching an interesting point there, I've recently started thinking if I would be happy if I was still shooting APS-C. I'm actually tempted to try the relatively (to its FF cousins) cheap A6700 . Though I have to say the size/weight difference is basically gone compared to A7C, which is something difficult to get over with when I take my old NEX-5R (R didn't mean more resolution back then though ) in my hand...
p.17 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Jeff Kott wrote:
There is of course something else going on with all of the negative comments. If the point was just to let people know what they are buying and not buying, 10 or 20 comments on the EVF and flip screen would be more than enough. Instead, it goes on for pages. I won't speculate as to why the expounding on the shortcomings ad nauseam.
On a different note, I have been on these forums (but not super active) for a long time, beginning with when I got a NEX 5N and before the RX1 was released. Way back then, we had literally hundreds if not thousands of posts about how a full frame rendering was greatly superior to a cropped frame rendering. Now when discussing the FF cameras vs. cameras like the 6700, no one mentions rendering. I'm not sure why that issue is now consigned to the dust bins of history.
Because many don’t care about rendering anymore. Look at the glass of today. It’s as sharp as can be with no flaws that software can’t handle. So it always looks clean. Certainly a change in mindset
We really do not have that older glass around so much. There is so many new type lenses as well
Photography is not what it was when I started 50 years ago. It’s a new reality, be it good or bad
p.17 #9 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
GMPhotography wrote:
Because many don’t care about rendering anymore.
I'm sure many don't care, but based on comments here when new lenses come out or when commenting on older lenses, many of us certainly do.
As an example, what happens when the Sony 55/1.8 is mentioned in these forums? That lens is compact and sharp edge to edge at all apertures and has great contrast, but every time the 55/1.8 is mentioned several posters will complain about the rendering or say that they don't like the "look." (Which is why I refer to it as the Rodney Dangerfield lens.)
OTOH, what I don't see any more is comments on FF vs. crop frame rendering. Just an observation.
p.17 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Everything in life is a compromise. It doesn't matter if you're buying photo gear, a house, stereo equipment or going to a restaurant. Depending on your point of view you either can't win or you're happy until the next upgrade.
Besides this forum I also follow an audiophile forum. I've yet to meet a single person on there that's happy with their current system. It's the nature of the game I suppose.
p.17 #12 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
BillD208 wrote:
Everything in life is a compromise. It doesn't matter if you're buying photo gear, a house, stereo equipment or going to a restaurant. Depending on your point of view you either can't win or you're happy until the next upgrade.
Besides this forum I also follow an audiophile forum. I've yet to meet a single person on there that's happy with their current system. It's the nature of the game I suppose.
It’s the nature of our society…never happy wanting more…more…more.
p.17 #13 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I assume people are disappointed because the cameras were very close to being to their spec while realizing the original dream of Sony FE mount cameras of being very small and discreet. People on this forum are very torn about these releases because they are pros or enthusiasts who want their tools to be as multi-tool as possible.
Some folks are rationalizing or looking for a way to overcome the limitations of the new releases and others don’t want to suffer the financial hit and hassle of acquiring one only to have to return or resell it. We’re all hedging, testing our assumptions and opinions and trying to reach conclusions. It’s hard to do without having actually shot the cameras for awhile so we’re stuck investigating with specs and by proxies.
I begrudge no one. And Sony hasn’t made this easy.
Jeff Kott wrote:
There is of course something else going on with all of the negative comments. If the point was just to let people know what they are buying and not buying, 10 or 20 comments on the EVF and flip screen would be more than enough. Instead, it goes on for pages. I won't speculate as to why the expounding on the shortcomings ad nauseam.
On a different note, I have been on these forums (but not super active) for a long time, beginning with when I got a NEX 5N and before the RX1 was released. Way back then, we had literally hundreds if not thousands of posts about how a full frame rendering was greatly superior to a cropped frame rendering. Now when discussing the FF cameras vs. cameras like the 6700, no one mentions rendering. I'm not sure why that issue is now consigned to the dust bins of history.
p.17 #15 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
Isn't this nomal?
For me FW updates are for bugfixing, and since years, I receive them from Sony too!
If I buy a new camera, I know what it delivers and if I don't like it, I don't buy it.
Expecting new features in old bodies is really strange
Your opinion is also very popular among people. I am more from perspective of computers, imagine you switch between DOS, Windows NT 4.0, and Windows 98 on the same computer, or from Windows 7 all the way to Windows 11. On cars, if you drive a Tesla, you can see your whole instrument cluster looked different right after a firmware update.
p.17 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
A7CR - 61mpx with IBIS and 500grams!!!
Sony keeps tempting me back. [I tried Sony and did not like it for dust control and cold weather performance and menu and bulb dropping bit rate] Thanks Sony for putting the pressure on Canon for a lightweight high mpx body.
I bought the r8 for backpacking for weight (450grams vs 750grams on R5) but am always irritated by the 24mpx.
p.17 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Justin Stone wrote:
I assume people are disappointed because the cameras were very close to being to their spec while realizing the original dream of Sony FE mount cameras of being very small and discreet.
I dream of a Sony camera large enough to be comfortably held in the human hand. They have been gradually getting closer, but the A7C series cameras are a step backwards.
p.17 #18 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
freaklikeme wrote:
It is, but our disappointment isn't going to stop them from selling a boatload.
I won't mock you for your Qness if you don't mock me for my latest solo lens obsession; the 6700 and the Zony 24/1.8. I forgot how fun that lens can be.
Yeah, there's no change in IQ with the 50MP sensor. I had a question about it being the best way to use the Rodenstock 35/60/100. The answer is; it's a brilliant use of those lenses, it's just not the way I want to use them. Anyway, as of today, I have joined the former GFX owner club. My coworker was able to complete the sale of his Leica gear early, so he walked in ready to finish the deal. And I turned around and sent a small portion of those funds to our video editing manager to acquire her low-mileage a7c, because our office is nothing if not a camera swap meet. And the necessary Actus parts will hopefully ship early next week.
You're right, I don't need the best AF, since that's what the 6700 is for. I got to handle an rIII and rIVa side-by-side today and, if I were forced to choose now, I'd probably go for the rIV because the grip's a lot more comfortable with teles and superteles and I can reliably focus the APO-Sonnar wide open from MFD to about sixty feet without relying on magnification, which is something I can't do with the rIII. Fortunately, there's no rush. I can probably put it off until the 300/2.8 GM ship date gets closer. The only thing decided for now is to go with the "a" version of one of them, because the improved LCD will come in handy for macro....Show more →
Haha--throwback to the ol' ZA 24/1.8. Never shot it, but it was awfully beloved in it's day. What would be the way to use those Rodenstock lenses? And don't worry on teasing me about the Q-ness. A little banter is welcome levity and make the otherwise hyper technical (though valuable) content flow better. Besides, you might realize I am on to something Usability and simplicity are so much more appealing to my photographic life than they were even a couple years ago. Also, aside from the annoyance of adapting, did you ever shoot the ZA 135/1.8? What are you thoughts on that vs the 135 APO.
I rarely ever use a tele, and when I do it's compact/light (700 or under). The nature of my shooting (and because I have a bad back) simply doesn't allow for it. So, a deeper grip has no appeal for me. The EVF is big though--I handled an a7sIII a while ago--the EVF was glorious. My god. Feels like being at an OmniMax.
p.17 #19 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
Isn't this nomal?
For me FW updates are for bugfixing, and since years, I receive them from Sony too!
If I buy a new camera, I know what it delivers and if I don't like it, I don't buy it.
Expecting new features in old bodies is really strange
It may be normal in the camera world, but look at phones and how those are maintained for a decade. Truth be told, the phone manufacturers don't do that from the good of hearts either. In order to maintain revenue they keep having to come up with hardware improvements, which is expensive for them. But for customers this is very nice. And in this day of needing to preserve resources, improving customer satisfaction without wasting additional hardware should be the obvious direction for everyone.
p.17 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Your dreams can come true with a grip. We can’t shave a hump and grams off our a7 and a9 style bodies. But you’re right, the a7 bodies keep getting bigger.
molson wrote:
I dream of a Sony camera large enough to be comfortably held in the human hand. They have been gradually getting closer, but the A7C series cameras are a step backwards.
. Though I have to say the size/weight difference is basically gone compared to A7C, which is something difficult to get over with when I take my old NEX-5R (R didn't mean more resolution back then though 
) in my hand...