Sony A7C II Leaked images
p.10 #1Sony A7C II Leaked images
freaklikeme wrote:
This brings up a few questions for me:
1. Can EFCS be technically improved to the point that it doesn’t affect rendering?
2. Does full electronic shutter with fast readout, eg. A1 affect rendering?
3. Would Sony go fast readout for A7R6, or this will never happen to avoid cannibalizing A1 / A1 M2?1. Anything's possible, but I don't know that anyone's working on the problem. It's a fairly minor limitation and I wonder how many a7c owners are even aware of the issue. Or how many other model owners bother to turn off EFCS when they hit 1/1000 or faster.
2. Not in the same way. Rendering issues with electronic shutters, even on blazingly fast cameras, are all movement based, so it is possible to have no perceptible difference between fully-mechanical and electronic regardless of shutter speed, assuming you can limit all movement. The EFCS issue is persistent.
3. My magic eight-ball says...Show more →
While I've owned Fuji's in the past I've never handled a XH2 with its 40 Pixel sensor which at Full Frame would translate to 90 Mpixels. Is it image quality and dynamic range as good as or better than the A7RV? If not 61 Mpixels is a fine limit to me. If I needed more I would go look at a X100S and not ask for 90 Mpixels in a full frame body.
FMTopFan wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Option for mechanical first curtain ensures proper rendering when shooting at high shutter speeds.1. Can EFCS be technically improved to the point that it doesn’t affect rendering?
2. Does full electronic shutter with fast readout, eg. A1 affect rendering?
3. Would Sony go fast readout for A7R6, or this will never happen to avoid cannibalizing A1 / A1 M2?
2. Not in the same way. Rendering issues with electronic shutters, even on blazingly fast cameras, are all movement based, so it is possible to have no perceptible difference between fully-mechanical and electronic regardless of shutter speed, assuming you can limit all movement. The EFCS issue is persistent.
3. My magic eight-ball says...Show more →
While I've owned Fuji's in the past I've never handled a XH2 with its 40 Pixel sensor which at Full Frame would translate to 90 Mpixels. Is it image quality and dynamic range as good as or better than the A7RV? If not 61 Mpixels is a fine limit to me. If I needed more I would go look at a X100S and not ask for 90 Mpixels in a full frame body.
Aug 20, 2023 at 10:15 AM
p.10 #2Sony A7C II Leaked images
What kind of handgrip are they going to introduce with these cameras?
Aug 20, 2023 at 10:54 AM
p.10 #3Sony A7C II Leaked images
mklass wrote:
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
Aug 20, 2023 at 10:59 AM
p.10 #4Sony A7C II Leaked images
phinix wrote:
This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
In the time it takes you to focus and recompose, you might miss the moment. But one should also separate their AF from their shutter button for similar reasons.
This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
In the time it takes you to focus and recompose, you might miss the moment. But one should also separate their AF from their shutter button for similar reasons.
Aug 20, 2023 at 11:22 AM
p.10 #5Sony A7C II Leaked images
weatherproof wrote:
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?In the time it takes you to focus and recompose, you might miss the moment. But one should also separate their AF from their shutter button for similar reasons.
In the time you push the joystick around instead ofpressing the buttom for tracking you may miss the moment. It's the same... but sure, a joystick for those found of that method, why not?
phinix wrote
This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
In the time you push the joystick around instead ofpressing the buttom for tracking you may miss the moment. It's the same... but sure, a joystick for those found of that method, why not?
Aug 20, 2023 at 11:24 AM
p.10 #6Sony A7C II Leaked images
mklass wrote:
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.
[...]
I read lots of complaints about the EVF on the original version, but this seems to be someone's pet peeve that has been repeated over and over. I find the current version's EVF to be perfectly fine.
[...]
I agree. The viewfinder is for focusing, an info central and a framing device. Then I'm also wanting a bigger viewfinder (my small µ4/3 cameras have bigger vierwfinders, my old Olympus OM4 had a bigger viewfinder and so on) but the current A7C viewfinder size really can't be a deal breaker. When doubting the AF or mounting a manual lens I activate the enlarge function and there is no problem focusing.
My guess it is what you are used to but I didn't need long time to adapt.
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.
[...]
I read lots of complaints about the EVF on the original version, but this seems to be someone's pet peeve that has been repeated over and over. I find the current version's EVF to be perfectly fine.
[...]
I agree. The viewfinder is for focusing, an info central and a framing device. Then I'm also wanting a bigger viewfinder (my small µ4/3 cameras have bigger vierwfinders, my old Olympus OM4 had a bigger viewfinder and so on) but the current A7C viewfinder size really can't be a deal breaker. When doubting the AF or mounting a manual lens I activate the enlarge function and there is no problem focusing.
My guess it is what you are used to but I didn't need long time to adapt.
Aug 20, 2023 at 11:30 AM
p.10 #7Sony A7C II Leaked images
Looking at the latest rumours with Euro prices we would have:
- A7C: 1500€
- A7Cii: 2400€
- A7CR: 3700€
In my case I just got an A7C that I liked quite a lot but that I can return. I only care about stills so I would get:
For 900€ extra:
- 9MP extra
- An extra wheel (all lenses I care about now have an aperture ring)
- Configurable wheel instead of exposure wheel
- Slightly? better AF and IBIS
- ??
For 1300€ extra in addition to the 900€:
- Another 28MP extra
- Tilt screen
- Included grip
- Much? better AF
Am I missing something here? My feeling is that the A7Cii gives you little extra on top of the A7C. Benefits from the A7CR are more obvious starting with the resolution, screen and AF, but now the price is more than double…
I am inclined to just keep the A7C, because I want the R for the crop possibilities but the price is just too much of a difference.
- A7C: 1500€
- A7Cii: 2400€
- A7CR: 3700€
In my case I just got an A7C that I liked quite a lot but that I can return. I only care about stills so I would get:
For 900€ extra:
- 9MP extra
- An extra wheel (all lenses I care about now have an aperture ring)
- Configurable wheel instead of exposure wheel
- Slightly? better AF and IBIS
- ??
For 1300€ extra in addition to the 900€:
- Another 28MP extra
- Tilt screen
- Included grip
- Much? better AF
Am I missing something here? My feeling is that the A7Cii gives you little extra on top of the A7C. Benefits from the A7CR are more obvious starting with the resolution, screen and AF, but now the price is more than double…
I am inclined to just keep the A7C, because I want the R for the crop possibilities but the price is just too much of a difference.
Aug 20, 2023 at 11:38 AM
p.10 #8Sony A7C II Leaked images
swldstn wrote:
This brings up a few questions for me:
1. Can EFCS be technically improved to the point that it doesn’t affect rendering?
2. Does full electronic shutter with fast readout, eg. A1 affect rendering?
3. Would Sony go fast readout for A7R6, or this will never happen to avoid cannibalizing A1 / A1 M2?1. Anything's possible, but I don't know that anyone's working on the problem. It's a fairly minor limitation and I wonder how many a7c owners are even aware of the issue. Or how many other model owners bother to turn off EFCS when they hit 1/1000 or faster.
2. Not in the same way. Rendering issues with electronic shutters, even on blazingly fast cameras, are all movement based, so it is possible to have no perceptible difference between fully-mechanical and electronic regardless of shutter speed, assuming you can limit all movement. The EFCS issue is persistent.
3. My magic eight-ball says no. It's frequently wrong, but my feeling is we'll see a 90MP+ non-stacked sensor in the rVI, because that's what the r line has been- a relatively slow stills oriented resolution monster.While I've owned Fuji's in the past I've never handled a XH2 with its 40 Pixel sensor which at Full Frame would translate to 90 Mpixels. Is it image quality and dynamic range as good as or better than the A7RV? If not 61 Mpixels is a fine limit to me. If I needed more I would go look at a X100S and not ask for 90 Mpixels in a full frame body.
I remember when the rIV was released, how many rIII shooters, myself included, said roughly the same thing. Now I feel like the last holdout who doesn't own an rV. So the rVI may not get you, but they'll figure out a way to get you to want the rVII.
freaklikeme wrote
FMTopFan wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Option for mechanical first curtain ensures proper rendering when shooting at high shutter speeds.1. Can EFCS be technically improved to the point that it doesn’t affect rendering?
2. Does full electronic shutter with fast readout, eg. A1 affect rendering?
3. Would Sony go fast readout for A7R6, or this will never happen to avoid cannibalizing A1 / A1 M2?
2. Not in the same way. Rendering issues with electronic shutters, even on blazingly fast cameras, are all movement based, so it is possible to have no perceptible difference between fully-mechanical and electronic regardless of shutter speed, assuming you can limit all movement. The EFCS issue is persistent.
3. My magic eight-ball says no. It's frequently wrong, but my feeling is we'll see a 90MP+ non-stacked sensor in the rVI, because that's what the r line has been- a relatively slow stills oriented resolution monster.
I remember when the rIV was released, how many rIII shooters, myself included, said roughly the same thing. Now I feel like the last holdout who doesn't own an rV. So the rVI may not get you, but they'll figure out a way to get you to want the rVII.
Aug 20, 2023 at 01:47 PM
p.10 #9Sony A7C II Leaked images
I don't know what real decisions can be made until they are released and price and specs announced.
Pricing? I don't know what they are thinking but think the "voices" in the decision process include those who felt leaving a cable out of the A6700 box was a good virtue signal and may have outweighed the ones who wanted the traditional cable in the box.
I don't know what to think of the rumored prices. In the US, the A6700 is priced at the A6600 price or close to it and the A6600 and A6400 reduced some. So that might suggest the A7Cii might be priced quite close to the A7C. OTOH, it's not an A7iv and aside from the most recent focus system - A7RV level goodness - it's short of the A7iv in several ways so I'd be surprised if the price is much closer to the A7iv.
That should hold the A7CR price down to considering the sensor difference. Although it's not impossible that they might have an additional body evolution and improve the finder and/or go to the A7Rv rear panel, etc. But as with the A7Cii and A7iv, it won't have the full feature set of the A7V so might be hard pressed to sell at too close to the A7Rv price.
Pricing? I don't know what they are thinking but think the "voices" in the decision process include those who felt leaving a cable out of the A6700 box was a good virtue signal and may have outweighed the ones who wanted the traditional cable in the box.
I don't know what to think of the rumored prices. In the US, the A6700 is priced at the A6600 price or close to it and the A6600 and A6400 reduced some. So that might suggest the A7Cii might be priced quite close to the A7C. OTOH, it's not an A7iv and aside from the most recent focus system - A7RV level goodness - it's short of the A7iv in several ways so I'd be surprised if the price is much closer to the A7iv.
That should hold the A7CR price down to considering the sensor difference. Although it's not impossible that they might have an additional body evolution and improve the finder and/or go to the A7Rv rear panel, etc. But as with the A7Cii and A7iv, it won't have the full feature set of the A7V so might be hard pressed to sell at too close to the A7Rv price.
Aug 20, 2023 at 02:44 PM
p.10 #10Sony A7C II Leaked images
phinix wrote:
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
I’ve only ever used it with the Tracking: Flexible Spot mode, but there I find it the best and fastest way to place the tracking point ahead of time (this is for photographing youth sports). Just keeping it in the center and recomposing after acquiring focus is not as fast.
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
I’ve only ever used it with the Tracking: Flexible Spot mode, but there I find it the best and fastest way to place the tracking point ahead of time (this is for photographing youth sports). Just keeping it in the center and recomposing after acquiring focus is not as fast.
Aug 20, 2023 at 03:19 PM
|
p.10 #12Sony A7C II Leaked images
phinix wrote:
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
I agree, I'm faster keeping a tracking spot in the center, locking it on target, and recompose. I can see people who like a joystick, but for me I don't use it.
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
I agree, I'm faster keeping a tracking spot in the center, locking it on target, and recompose. I can see people who like a joystick, but for me I don't use it.
Aug 20, 2023 at 03:43 PM
p.10 #13Sony A7C II Leaked images
tschopp wrote:
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?I agree, I'm faster keeping a tracking spot in the center, locking it on target, and recompose. I can see people who like a joystick, but for me I don't use it.
Yeah, it takes 0.5 sec to move camera back to the wanted frame. It would take 3-4 secs to move joystick around...
phinix wrote
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
Yeah, it takes 0.5 sec to move camera back to the wanted frame. It would take 3-4 secs to move joystick around...
Aug 20, 2023 at 03:45 PM
p.10 #14Sony A7C II Leaked images
phinix wrote:
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?I agree, I'm faster keeping a tracking spot in the center, locking it on target, and recompose. I can see people who like a joystick, but for me I don't use it.Yeah, it takes 0.5 sec to move camera back to the wanted frame. It would take 3-4 secs to move joystick around...
What about when the camera is on a tripod or monopod?
tschopp wrote
phinix wrote
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
What about when the camera is on a tripod or monopod?
Aug 20, 2023 at 03:53 PM
p.10 #15Sony A7C II Leaked images
genjy wrote:
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?I agree, I'm faster keeping a tracking spot in the center, locking it on target, and recompose. I can see people who like a joystick, but for me I don't use it.Yeah, it takes 0.5 sec to move camera back to the wanted frame. It would take 3-4 secs to move joystick around...What about when the camera is on a tripod or monopod?
Never use one. So maybe then, but I can only see the use when you shoot sports etc.
phinix wrote
tschopp wrote
phinix wrote
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
Never use one. So maybe then, but I can only see the use when you shoot sports etc.
Aug 20, 2023 at 04:08 PM
p.10 #16Sony A7C II Leaked images
Because people like to focus and get things not only in acceptable focus but also in critically sharp focus. re-compose does not get you there.
phinix wrote:
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
phinix wrote:
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
Aug 20, 2023 at 07:10 PM
p.10 #17Sony A7C II Leaked images
freaklikeme wrote:
So the rVI may not get you, but they'll figure out a way to get you to want the rVII.
Or, they will get you with AcR, if not AcRII
So the rVI may not get you, but they'll figure out a way to get you to want the rVII.
Or, they will get you with AcR, if not AcRII
Aug 20, 2023 at 07:38 PM
p.10 #18Sony A7C II Leaked images
A7CR +
Kolari Mod + M Mount Lenses = Poor Man's M11
Sigma 35i = Poor Man's RX1R
28/2 or 28/1.8 = Poor Man's Q3
GM Lenses = Poor Man's A7R5
Poor Man * 4 = Rich Man?
Kolari Mod + M Mount Lenses = Poor Man's M11
Sigma 35i = Poor Man's RX1R
28/2 or 28/1.8 = Poor Man's Q3
GM Lenses = Poor Man's A7R5
Poor Man * 4 = Rich Man?
Aug 20, 2023 at 07:41 PM
p.10 #19Sony A7C II Leaked images
olegkin wrote:
Because people like to focus and get things not only in acceptable focus but also in critically sharp focus. re-compose does not get you there.
A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).This joystick thing - am I missing something - why is it so important for people, could you just focus in centre and re-compose?
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
Not center focus and recompose--real time tracking, which sticks to the original focus point.
Because people like to focus and get things not only in acceptable focus but also in critically sharp focus. re-compose does not get you there.
phinix wrote
mklass wrote
I am looking forward to the A7CII, and will buy one.A joystick to move the focus point would be nice, but I have adapted to the Sony system in that regard (I'm coming from Nikon).
Why people like to use joystick to move focus point?
Not center focus and recompose--real time tracking, which sticks to the original focus point.
Aug 20, 2023 at 07:45 PM
p.10 #20Sony A7C II Leaked images
akashyap wrote:
A7CR +
Kolari Mod + M Mount Lenses = Poor Man's M11
Sigma 35i = Poor Man's RX1R
28/2 or 28/1.8 = Poor Man's Q3
GM Lenses = Poor Man's A7R5
Poor Man * 4 = Rich Man?
I agreed with EVERYTHING but the conclusion is not Rich Man, because Poor Man x too many sub-optimum alternatives = Poorer Man
But seriously AcR does translate to a lot of savings for the poor man, as evident below:
AcR + 28/2 = Poor Man's Q1/2/3
AcR + 35i = Poor Man's RX1R/2
AcR + any E lens = Poor Man's A6700
AcR + any FE lens = Poor Man's A7R5
As such, AcR is the best poor man's camera! And it will win Best PP (Poor Photographer) Camera of the year!
A7CR +
Kolari Mod + M Mount Lenses = Poor Man's M11
Sigma 35i = Poor Man's RX1R
28/2 or 28/1.8 = Poor Man's Q3
GM Lenses = Poor Man's A7R5
Poor Man * 4 = Rich Man?
I agreed with EVERYTHING but the conclusion is not Rich Man, because Poor Man x too many sub-optimum alternatives = Poorer Man
But seriously AcR does translate to a lot of savings for the poor man, as evident below:
AcR + 28/2 = Poor Man's Q1/2/3
AcR + 35i = Poor Man's RX1R/2
AcR + any E lens = Poor Man's A6700
AcR + any FE lens = Poor Man's A7R5
As such, AcR is the best poor man's camera! And it will win Best PP (Poor Photographer) Camera of the year!
Aug 20, 2023 at 11:51 PM