28mm wrote:
I wouldn’t mind an expansion of the initial 3 cupcake G primes.
I was one of those initially disappointed when they weren’t real pancakes, but after playing around with the Canon RF 16mm and the Nikon Z 26mm pancake, I think I know why Sony refuses to do pancakes with STM motors. The squeaky AF motors plus inevitable comparison to the faster XD linear motors will be enough to put a lot of people off.
I wouldn’t mind slower and smaller f/3.5 or f/4 primes, but I understand that is very unlikely. These things are just too niche, in a market where everyone wants fast, fast glass. I’ve even seen popular YouTubers wonder why their videos on lenses like the 20-70G are severely underperforming. To me, that’s indicative of the overall market. Outside of enthusiast places like FM, f/4 zooms and f/2.8 primes just don’t sell that well.
I get it now! Thanks for pointing it out! Seriously! I have been scratching my head as to why Sony didn't add any more lenses to their G "cupcake" line, especially a 16mm. Focus sounds (noise) would annoy video shooters, and Sony's target audience are video shooters (or "content creators"). Since stills shooters are no longer a priority, there will never be an expansion of the compact G line.
Sad for us few stills shooters.
p.s. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not even knocking Sony for their marketing direction. While I absolutely loved my A7c, and it pained me greatly to sell it, I now do believe I made the right choice by sticking with Canon. Sony (or any 3rd party lens manufacturer) will never expand their compact lens series because the main marketing drive is to make decent quality, quiet lenses that are suitable for video. Had I stayed with Sony, I would have waited in vain. While I'm not 100% thrilled with my R6 (bulkier than my A7c and has a reputation of mechanical failure due to overheating, wobbly hotshoe and sudden catastrophic circuit failure), at least the affordable RF primes work great for what I shoot; primarily stills. I really miss my A7c, but I can't continue to dwell on that. Sony made their choice (video/content creators over stills shooters), so I have to live with my choice.
calebzulawski wrote:
I wonder if it will still have that mandatory EFCS from the a7c. Maybe I'm a bit too critical but that was the one thing that spoiled the original for me.
I guess when considering APS-C while most point to the sensor it’s good to remember that it also impacts the mechanical shutter and its curtain design. So it looks like the A6700’s shutter has more functionality. Of course you can make a full frame shutter with support for EFCS and withou but is that even more expensive?
While I at first liked the idea and ergonomics of the small G primes of 24, 40, and 50, I ended up having a problem with the family. The major one was the incomplete execution of it. While 24 and 40 might pair well for some there was no 35 to go with the 50 or maybe a 28 to go with the 40 and no 20/21. Also nothing longer than 50. It’s like Sony kept away from their previous lenses rather than create a true family so to me, even though I bought in at first, was a half-axe execution.
While heavier the very well made Sigma I-series was more complete and in the end I bought in more. It has the 20/2, 24/2, 35/2, 50/2, 65/2, and smaller 17/4, 24/3.5, 45/2.8, and 90/2.8 to choose from.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The main trade-off is that the lenses will be slower. Faster lenses with an aperture of f/1.4, which provide high image quality from well-corrected optics and fast autofocus, will always be larger unless there's a significant advancement in glass technology.
I don't know, but I think high quality compact glass/lens design is already there like I see in the G-Trio or for instance modern, premium IQ, super fast, small and compact Emount M, Voigtländer lenses.
From what I can surmise from a consumer grade perspective, it's the accommodation of lens electronics to include camera communications and AF motors that require the larger lens barrel circumference/bulk. Maybe possible to make even more miniaturization efforts here at some point.
smpetty wrote:
Other than the slower speed of the tiny Sony G trio lenses, I find nothing to complain about with the image quality of all three lenses. They are a joy to use.
I own the Sony 50 mm f/1.2 GM lens. Pictures from that lens, when shot at the same f-stop as pictures from my Sony 50 mm f 2.5 G lens, are for all intents and purposes impossible to distinguish. The same holds true with my 40 mm f/2.5 G when I compare it to images taken with my Sony 35 mm f 1.4 GM at the same f-stop. And again, when I compare my Sony 24 mm f/1.4 GM to my Sony 24 mm f 2.8 G, the images are virtually identical, when shot at the same f-stop.
Owning those three tiny G lenses has really changed the way that I think about using primes on my camera. I use them far more often than the faster GM versions that cover the same focal length. The GMs can do everything I need from a lens. The tiny G's can do everything the GMs can do except really wide aperture images. For the majority of what I shoot, f/2.5-f/2.8 is just the right mix of depth of field and speed. Your mileage may vary.
I wish that Sony would roll out more of these small G lenses with moderate speed and excellent image quality. For what it's worth, the Sigma 90 mm DGDN f 2.8 contemporary lens complements the existing Sony G lenses with similar image quality, speed, and size. I can carry three lenses in my coat pocket with the fourth lens mounted on my A7 RV and have relatively fast and incredibly high quality images. Very cool. ...Show more →
No doubt many are pleased with the A7c + G-Trio. Particularly those happy with very small and compact Auto Focus FF gear. Sony definitely delivered here. The A7cII is an indication that Sony knows there is a market place for those wishing for the smallest, most compact FF camera system possible.
I suspect, I hope we will see more G-Trio sized lenses too. My point and request is if Sony and its technology is at the point where Premium small and compact lenses could be designed and offered too. Based upon what I've read on the forums over the years, I think many would also buy G-Trio sized Premium IQ lenses too. To be clear, I realize many of you are super happy with the G-Trio as is both price and IQ.
snegron7 wrote:
Sony made their choice (video/content creators over stills shooters), so I have to live with my choice.
Not sure why you made your choice, nor whether it was a wise one. But this statement here is a rationalization on your part. There are more native lens choices "aimed at" or useful for still shooters on E-mount than there are for the RF-mount. Sony coming up with additional stuff does not diminish that, whether it is for video or otherwise. That said, all the best with your Canon gear, you really don't have to have a sound reason to change if that is your preference.
28mm wrote:
I wouldn’t mind an expansion of the initial 3 cupcake G primes.
I was one of those initially disappointed when they weren’t real pancakes, but after playing around with the Canon RF 16mm and the Nikon Z 26mm pancake, I think I know why Sony refuses to do pancakes with STM motors. The squeaky AF motors plus inevitable comparison to the faster XD linear motors will be enough to put a lot of people off.
I wouldn’t mind slower and smaller f/3.5 or f/4 primes, but I understand that is very unlikely. These things are just too niche, in a market where everyone wants fast, fast glass. I’ve even seen popular YouTubers wonder why their videos on lenses like the 20-70G are severely underperforming. To me, that’s indicative of the overall market. Outside of enthusiast places like FM, f/4 zooms and f/2.8 primes just don’t sell that well.
There is hope! If Sony is coming with the ILCE A7cII, then they too see growth potential for those needing/wanting the smallest FF camera/lens system possible. I just hope more compact AF lens options are on the way too.
snegron7 wrote:
It can be done. The proof is Canon RF 16mm f2.8 and RF 28mm f2.8. These lenses don't have IS, but they are small, fast, full frame and affordable.
A Sony FE 16mm f2.8 G is not impossible.
On a side note, I remember seeing this Canon Pancake lens tear down and seeing how much room is needed even in a pancake lens housing to accommodate the electronics/AF compared to the size of the actual lenses/optics. * Anybody know if there is similar tear-down video for any of the Sony G-Trio lenses?
Daran wrote:
Not sure why you made your choice, nor whether it was a wise one. But this statement here is a rationalization on your part. There are more native lens choices "aimed at" or useful for still shooters on E-mount than there are for the RF-mount. Sony coming up with additional stuff does not diminish that, whether it is for video or otherwise. That said, all the best with your Canon gear, you really don't have to have a sound reason to change if that is your preference.
I didn't really "change" per se; I was using both systems simultaneously. I ended up staying with Canon and selling off my Sony equipment.
As for the multitude of choices available for FE (full frame Sony), I agree with you, there are many choices. However, there are zero full frame, autofocus, 16mm f2.8 primes available from Sony OR any 3rd party manufacturer.
The closest I was going to get was a Tamron 17-28mm f2.8. Sony's PZ 16-35mm f4 was not on my list as it was only an F4.0 (also, the PZ 16-35mm f4 is a perfect example of what I mean by Sony targeting the "content creator" market). There are a ton of options that start at 28mm and even more in the normal/telephoto zoom range for FE, but I shoot wide angle mostly.
I loved my Tamron 20-40mm f2.8, but it wasn't wide enough.
My choice was made by the availability of lens options that suite my particular shooting style. Sony is simply going in a different direction than what suites me. Nothing wrong with that. To each his own. I had to make a choice between either a smaller body or smaller lenses. I opted for smaller lenses, so I went with Canon.
I will always remember my A7c as one of the best cameras for travel I have ever owned though.
snegron7 wrote:
However, there are zero full frame, autofocus, 16mm f2.8 primes available from Sony OR any 3rd party manufacturer.
Well, maybe not exactly 16mm f2.8. Closest is maybe the Samyang 14mm 2.8 AF. There are faster options (e.g. 14f1.8 GM), zooms (e.g. Sony FE 12-24mm 2.8 GM) and of course a plethora of manual lenses (e.g. Voigtlander 15mm 4.5 E, 7Artisans 15mm 4.0, etc). I'm not a wide angle guy and could not tell you which of these are good. I read that quite a few are, though.
The closest I was going to get was a Tamron 17-28mm f2.8. Sony's PZ 16-35mm f4 was not on my list as it was only an F4.0 (also, the PZ 16-35mm f4 is a perfect example of what I mean by Sony targeting the "content creator" market). There are a ton of options that start at 28mm and even more in the normal/telephoto zoom range for FE, but I shoot wide angle mostly.
Are you sure, you checked out all that is out there for E-mount? I'll admit it is a confusingly varied bunch...
PS: the RF16mm seems small and cheap, but not exactly stellar? Maybe I could have skipped talking about GMs...
snegron7 wrote:
I get it now! Thanks for pointing it out! Seriously! I have been scratching my head as to why Sony didn't add any more lenses to their G "cupcake" line, especially a 16mm. Focus sounds (noise) would annoy video shooters, and Sony's target audience are video shooters (or "content creators"). Since stills shooters are no longer a priority, there will never be an expansion of the compact G line.
Sad for us few stills shooters.
p.s. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not even knocking Sony for their marketing direction. While I absolutely loved my A7c, and it pained me greatly to sell it, I now do believe I made the right choice by sticking with Canon. Sony (or any 3rd party lens manufacturer) will never expand their compact lens series because the main marketing drive is to make decent quality, quiet lenses that are suitable for video. Had I stayed with Sony, I would have waited in vain. While I'm not 100% thrilled with my R6 (bulkier than my A7c and has a reputation of mechanical failure due to overheating, wobbly hotshoe and sudden catastrophic circuit failure), at least the affordable RF primes work great for what I shoot; primarily stills. I really miss my A7c, but I can't continue to dwell on that. Sony made their choice (video/content creators over stills shooters), so I have to live with my choice....Show more →
Wow. I didn't know that Sony had given up on me as a stills shooter. I think that extra something my photos are missing must be the grinding sound from the Canon RF 35 and 85 f/2 primes that my G, GM, Sigma ART, Sigma Contemporary and Samyang lenses lack. Because as a stills shooter, I need to hear the loud noise of slow stepper motors and externally moving elements to know I am creating a master piece. And I am totally frozen with trying to choose which small lineup of lenses I should buy. Sigma Contemporary? Sony G? Voigtlander? Samyang Tiny? The decisions are far too hard. I clearly made the wrong choice, so I'm putting up all my stuff on KEH tomorrow, taking a huge loss, and going all in on the noisiest Canon STM glass I can find.
I'm being 100% sarcastic.
You shoot what you want. No one on the Sony forum on FM cares that you shoot Canon.
Daran wrote:
Well, maybe not exactly 16mm f2.8. Closest is maybe the Samyang 14mm 2.8 AF. There are faster options (e.g. 14f1.8 GM), zooms (e.g. Sony FE 12-24mm 2.8 GM) and of course a plethora of manual lenses (e.g. Voigtlander 15mm 4.5 E, 7Artisans 15mm 4.0, etc). I'm not a wide angle guy and could not tell you which of these are good. I read that quite a few are, though.
Are you sure, you checked out all that is out there for E-mount? I'll admit it is a confusingly varied bunch...
PS: the RF16mm seems small and cheap, but not exactly stellar? Maybe I could have skipped talking about GMs......Show more →
Maybe I was lucky to get a good copy of the RF 16mm f2.8, but it is super sharp, focuses fast and yields fantastic results; just about as good as what I used to get with my Canon EF 16-35mm f4.0L.
You pretty much summed up the only available options for a 16mm AF in FE mount for Sony. Lots of somewhat close options, but all are compromises. The idea of having a compact full frame camera like the A7c is have a small footprint. Large GM or similar lenses defeat the purpose of the A7c.
Newenglandrocks wrote:
Wow. I didn't know that Sony had given up on me as a stills shooter. I think that extra something my photos are missing must be the grinding sound from the Canon RF 35 and 85 f/2 primes that my G, GM, Sigma ART, Sigma Contemporary and Samyang lenses lack. Because as a stills shooter, I need to hear the loud noise of slow stepper motors and externally moving elements to know I am creating a master piece. And I am totally frozen with trying to choose which small lineup of lenses I should buy. Sigma Contemporary? Sony G? Voigtlander? Samyang Tiny? The decisions are far too hard. I clearly made the wrong choice, so I'm putting up all my stuff on KEH tomorrow, taking a huge loss, and going all in on the noisiest Canon STM glass I can find.
I'm being 100% sarcastic.
You shoot what you want. No one on the Sony forum on FM cares that you shoot Canon. ...Show more →
LBJ2 wrote:
There is hope! If Sony is coming with the ILCE A7cII, then they too see growth potential for those needing/wanting the smallest FF camera/lens system possible. I just hope more compact AF lens options are on the way too.
Yes.. And even more so if another A7Rc is on the way.
G-Trios, GMc, pancakes, cupcakes.. whatever its called, bring them on!!
I can’t believe y’all aren’t more hyped about the a7cR. That would be the ultimate compact/travel/hiking/biking body to pair with small primes or the new f/4 zooms. Add in the new dynamic stabilization and AI stuff - just wow for such a small package. I’ll wait for final specs, but my a7IV and a7sIII’s days are numbered if there aren’t too many warts in the a7cII/cR combo. I’m already downsizing my 2.8 zooms to the new f/4’s and cutting my filter size. My work is travel photos and videos, trying to put my kit on a diet to cover a wide range with few compromises. The two new a7c’s look like a powerhouse small two body kit.
I just saw this on SAR and still questioning it over the 6700. It's almost the same except FF and 33mpx. But the worst thing of the A7C is the EVF and looks like it's been recycled for that alone they screwed it up.
Of course these are still rumors which is always suspect.
1) Sony A7cII:
33MP sensor of the A7IV
Bionz XR, AI processor
5 stops IBIS
10fps
100-51200 ISO
10 bit 4k60p, S-Cinetone
2,36 milion dot EVF
3 inch fully articulating LCD screen
759 AF points
Lens breathing compensation
One slot only
2) Sony A7cR:
Same body as A7cII
61MP sensor of the A7rV
8k recording like the A7rV
3 inch fully articulating LCD screen
One slot only
and other specs equal to the A7rV
So still ONE slot. Sony is not getting my money for this. They simply did not take this seriously enough. I know im being a jerk but value is value and just not seeing it here.
