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Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders

  
 
tach18k
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


In the last test shots the Q3 looks to be better in focus/ sharpness. The Q3 still seems to have an issue with the highlights shown in the tests before the last set.



May 27, 2023 at 09:07 AM
LBJ2
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


RustyRus wrote:
The Leica Q3 uses Mechanical Shutter (leaf) for anything at or below 1/2000 sec and Electronic Shutter (ES) for anything above 1/2000 and up to 1/16000. That’s it I am reading the specs correctly .

The leaf shutter is still mechanical it’s just in the diaphragm of the lens.


Thank you. The test image that I was referencing posted earlier in this thread, appears to have been taken at 1/8000s -electronic shutter.

So with what you wrote, maybe we might see less rolling shutter for the similar fast moving subject scenario shot at 1/2000s or slower with the Q3's leaf shutter.

Interesting Q3 test if @lifeandmylens or someone can try similar moving subject scenario with 1/2000 or slower.



May 27, 2023 at 09:24 AM
lifeandmylens
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders




tach18k wrote:
In the last test shots the Q3 looks to be better in focus/ sharpness. The Q3 still seems to have an issue with the highlights shown in the tests before the last set.


The Q3 meter seems to overexpose. I’m going to play with auto exposure later and metering method=highlights.



May 27, 2023 at 09:31 AM
lifeandmylens
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders



LBJ2 wrote:
Thank you. The test image that I was referencing posted earlier in this thread, appears to have been taken at 1/8000s -electronic shutter.

So with what you wrote, maybe we might see less rolling shutter for the similar fast moving subject scenario shot at 1/2000s or slower with the Q3's leaf shutter.

Interesting Q3 test if @lifeandmylens@@ or someone can try similar moving subject scenario with 1/2000 or slower.


There shouldn’t be any rolling shutter with 1/2000 mechanical. I’ll see if I have a 49mm step up ring and put a ND filter on it wide open (could also simply just stop it down).

The AF seems great, even with my toddler walking fast and erratic towards the camera. But the rolling shutter was bad in quite a few shots at 1/8000. Would be nice if we could choose a maximum shutter speed for e shutter.



May 27, 2023 at 09:34 AM
LBJ2
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


lifeandmylens wrote:
There shouldn’t be any rolling shutter with 1/2000 mechanical. I’ll see if I have a 49mm step up ring and put a ND filter on it wide open (could also simply just stop it down).

The AF seems great, even with my toddler walking fast and erratic towards the camera. But the rolling shutter was bad in quite a few shots at 1/8000. Would be nice if we could choose a maximum shutter speed for e shutter.


Thank you--and of course if not too much trouble.

Good to hear the new PDAF is doing well for you too. An earlier review stated otherwise, but wondering if the reviewer was on the latest firmware. Did you test the PDAF on the Q3 prior to this new Q3 firmware update that just came out ?



May 27, 2023 at 09:38 AM
lifeandmylens
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders




LBJ2 wrote:
Thank you--and of course if not too much trouble.

Good to hear the new PDAF is doing well for you too. An earlier review stated otherwise, but wondering if the reviewer was on the latest firmware. Did you test the PDAF on the Q3 prior to this new Q3 firmware update that just came out ?


I did not sorry. I updated it right away.



May 27, 2023 at 09:43 AM
LBJ2
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


lifeandmylens wrote:
I did not sorry. I updated it right away.


Either way, looks like ver 1.1.0 delivered the PDAF performance. Good news!



May 27, 2023 at 09:51 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


lifeandmylens wrote:
A couple more this time with the 50’s. Q3 (in 50 crop mode at f/1.7) and SL2-S+50SL @ f/2. 1st set is maybe 500 ft~ and the second set is around 1m.


Thanks for posting all these comparisons!

The 50/2 SL at f/3.2 is expected to produce a blur effect similar to the Q3's wide-open aperture when cropped to 50mm.

26(x1.92) f/1.7(x1.92) = equiv. ~50/3.2 in terms of DOF.

I bet if you post a side by side with the above settings, the level of blur would likely be very similar when shooting at the same distance.



May 27, 2023 at 10:08 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


LBJ2 wrote:
Thank you. The test image that I was referencing posted earlier in this thread, appears to have been taken at 1/8000s -electronic shutter.

So with what you wrote, maybe we might see less rolling shutter for the similar fast moving subject scenario shot at 1/2000s or slower with the Q3's leaf shutter.

Interesting Q3 test if @lifeandmylens@ or someone can try similar moving subject scenario with 1/2000 or slower.


The phenomenon known as skew or rolling shutter is not associated with the mechanical 'leaf' shutter. It exclusively occurs when using the Q3 in "Electronic shutter" mode, specifically at shutter speeds faster than 1/2000s.

The Sony A7R IV has a readout time of 100 milliseconds or 1/10 of a second, so I anticipate that the Q3 will have similar performance in this aspect.

In the case of a rolling shutter, the scanning process moves downward across the image plane, sequentially activating and deactivating rows of photosites in quick succession as the entire frame becomes fully exposed. It operates by illuminating one row of photosites at a time across the width of the frame. The exposure takes place between the moment the first row of photosites is lit and when the last row of photosites is turned off. The delay is a result of the readout time.

When shooting with the mechanical 'leaf' shutter, there will be no noticeable skew or rolling shutter effect. This effect is only seeing when the camera switches to the electronic shutter mode.



May 27, 2023 at 10:26 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


patotts wrote:
This explains a lot. I've owned the Q, Q2 and Q2M but after some use, even with all the advantages of the small package, I always find the images just a tad too wide for my liking.

Shouldn't there be more of an uproar about this? 24-26mm lens is different from 28. Leica shouldn't be allowed to market it as a 28/1.7 lens, it is basically false information.


The majority of Q shooters are generally not overly concerned about these technical details, and considering the camera's success, it appears to have been a smart decision by Leica. There are both advantages and disadvantages depending on the specific application.

For portrait photography, particularly environmental portraits with a wide angle lens, it is common practice to maintain a reasonable distance from the subject to minimize face/body distortion. In this case, the slight difference of 2mm in focal length would not pose a significant issue.

However, when it comes to shooting landscapes, that extra 2mm could be quite beneficial. It would provide a wider field of view, allowing for a broader perspective and capturing more of the scenic surroundings. In certain situations, I would even consider using the uncorrected 24mm FL DNG file, perhaps with only the removal of hard vignetting, specifically for landscapes. In specific scenes that lack a prominent horizon line, where the extreme barrel distortion is not a significant concern, using the "real" 24mm file could be a viable option.

I have not personally tested this, but considering that the stated 28mm focal length is not accurate, it is possible that the aperture is also not precisely f/1.7. For instance, It could potentially be closer to f/1.8, although marketing it as a "Lux" lens would be too much of a stretch.

I speculate that we are unlikely to come across such information from any YouTubers who have received a Q3 pre-production for review. Most of the videos tend to resemble advertisements for Leica rather than objective evaluations. It seems that the content creators may be more inclined to highlight the positive aspects of the camera rather than thoroughly exploring its potential drawbacks. (And let's admit, it can sometimes feel like watching an extended Leica commercial!)



May 27, 2023 at 10:57 AM
 


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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


Fred Miranda wrote:
However, when it comes to shooting landscapes, that extra 2mm could be quite beneficial. It would provide a wider field of view, allowing for a broader perspective and capturing more of the scenic surroundings. In certain situations, I would even consider utilizing the uncorrected 24mm FL DNG file, perhaps with only the removal of hard vignetting, specifically for landscapes. In specific scenes that lack a prominent horizon line, where the extreme barrel distortion is not a significant concern, using the "real" 24mm file could be a viable option.


Exactly! The default lens profile settings for all my landscape lenses in Lightroom have Vignetting removal on, but distortion correction off. I imagine a 16:9 crop from the center of the non-corrected Q3 DNG's being usable for most landscapes without a clear horizon.




May 27, 2023 at 11:14 AM
lifeandmylens
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for posting all these comparisons!

The 50/2 SL at f/3.2 is expected to produce a blur effect similar to the Q3's wide-open aperture when cropped to 50mm.

26(x1.92) f/1.7(x1.92) = equiv. ~50/3.2 in terms of DOF.

I bet if you post a side by side with the above settings, the level of blur would likely be very similar when shooting at the same distance.


Yes I think you're right. It looks pretty close to the 50mm @ f/3.5 given it seems to be a ~47/48mm field of view. These were on a tripod, but the sl2-s is a little taller and the 50 cron is a little larger so it skews the perspective slightly.




  LEICA SL2-S    SUMMICRON-SL 1:2/50 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/3.5    1/1000s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA Q3    SUMMILUX 1:1.7/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/1.7    1/5000s    100 ISO    +0.6 EV  




May 27, 2023 at 11:35 AM
patotts
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


Man, that olive green M with silver lens and the cognac-colored strap looks so tasty!


May 27, 2023 at 12:32 PM
patotts
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


Fred Miranda wrote:
The majority of Q shooters are generally not overly concerned about these technical details, and considering the camera's success, it appears to have been a smart decision by Leica. There are both advantages and disadvantages depending on the specific application.

For portrait photography, particularly environmental portraits with a wide angle lens, it is common practice to maintain a reasonable distance from the subject to minimize face/body distortion. In this case, the slight difference of 2mm in focal length would not pose a significant issue.

However, when it comes to shooting landscapes, that extra 2mm could be quite beneficial. It would provide
...Show more

I do understand the various benefits and perhaps non-issues with 26mm vs 28mm, and f/1.7 vs f/1.8, but I want/demand/expect Leica to be honest, open and accurate in their product descriptions. I think this is a major faux-pas in the trust department for the brand.

Legally speaking, this is probably a non-issue in the US, but a number of European countries have much stronger consumer protection and false advertising laws than the US, thus there is a risk that this might bite Leica, but I doubt some entitity will bother pursuing it.



May 27, 2023 at 12:38 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


Fred Miranda wrote:
The majority of Q shooters are generally not overly concerned about these technical details, and considering the camera's success, it appears to have been a smart decision by Leica. There are both advantages and disadvantages depending on the specific application.

For portrait photography, particularly environmental portraits with a wide angle lens, it is common practice to maintain a reasonable distance from the subject to minimize face/body distortion. In this case, the slight difference of 2mm in focal length would not pose a significant issue.

However, when it comes to shooting landscapes, that extra 2mm could be quite beneficial. It would provide
...Show more

When I was shooting the Q for landscape, I would often remove the crop to recover more of the original image. However, you likely will want to leave the distortion correction intact. The only time I would turn off the distortion correction was for close up and macro shooting, where the distortion can greatly increase the 3-dimensionality of a central subject. As a bonus for closeup work, the hard corners are often not there at all.

Something else interesting is removing the Q crop reveals much more image area on the horizontal axis than the vertical. This might also have something to do with Leica coming up with the 28mm focal length designation, similar to how an anamorphic lens is much wider than the focal length would suggest. The Q lens is wider than 28mm, but mainly on the horizontal axis, and they probably calculate the focal length by diagonal.

Below are images showing the default built-in crop on the Q2M. (Note that the curve of the landscape is not the Q lens distortion – the land angles like that down into the volcanic caldera – even pine trees are not always vertical there). After removing the default crop completely, we have an image that is even wider than the assumed 25/26mm FOV everyone sees by default.

My summary about the Q distortion correction is Leica takes the image shot on a 3:2 sensor and stretches it to wider than 3:2 to correct for the lens distortion, which gives us a slight anamorphic result. If I use the full uncropped image, I end up with more pixels and slightly higher resolution (uncropped is 9026 x 5705 px vs default 8368 x 5584 px). This doesn't mean the sensor is higher resolution than stated, it just means Leica upscales the captured image to correct for the distortion. But since that enlarged image is available, we might as well use it if we can.





Default crop. Notice all the extra space left/right vs top/bottom.







Expanding the original crop shows the available area is wider than 3:2.







Full available image, wider than the default 25/26mm FOV.







My final 16:9 image that takes full advantage of the available image width.

  LEICA Q2 MONO    SUMMILUX 1:1.7/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/4.0    1/200s    200 ISO    +0.6 EV  




May 27, 2023 at 12:48 PM
1bwana1
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders




lifeandmylens wrote:
Yes I think you're right. It looks pretty close to the 50mm @ f/3.5 given it seems to be a ~47/48mm field of view. These were on a tripod, but the sl2-s is a little taller and the 50 cron is a little larger so it skews the perspective slightly.


That is one very handsome M camera. I may have to get over my proclivity to just default to all black on my M.



May 27, 2023 at 01:42 PM
panos.v
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders



patotts wrote:
I do understand the various benefits and perhaps non-issues with 26mm vs 28mm, and f/1.7 vs f/1.8, but I want/demand/expect Leica to be honest, open and accurate in their product descriptions. I think this is a major faux-pas in the trust department for the brand.

Legally speaking, this is probably a non-issue in the US, but a number of European countries have much stronger consumer protection and false advertising laws than the US, thus there is a risk that this might bite Leica, but I doubt some entitity will bother pursuing it.


Come on now. Take 10 50mm lenses from various manufacturers and see which one is actually 50. If anything, for 26 vs 28 you got 8% more than you paid for. Maybe they should charge you even more...



May 27, 2023 at 02:23 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


1bwana1 wrote:
That is one very handsome M camera. I may have to get over my proclivity to just default to all black on my M.


I agree. Love the M10-P Safari look. (more than the Reporter edition)



May 27, 2023 at 03:18 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


It seems unlikely that this reviewer will be receiving a pre-production Q3 for review anytime soon!

Here are a few excerpts from his comments about the Q3:

"I was shocked when Leica failed to update the 28mm f/1.7 lens from the original Leica Q for the Leica Q2. What was barely adequate on the 24-megapixel Q with visibly poor outer-zone sharpness became obviously unsharp (large outer zone area) on the 45-megapixel Q2 and Leica Q2 Monochrom. So ridiculous that I abandoned reviewing the Q2 after a first batch of examples. The marketing hoopla is at your expense, if you’re expecting sharp images. Rarely (never) has a camera been so misrepresented as to its potential capture detail."

"Along comes the Leica Q3 with a 60MP sensor, and the lens is now nothing short of pathetic given the demands of the sensor. That is, extreme barrel distortion with distortion correction (required) guarantees poor sharpness over at least half the frame. The standout dilettante lens on the market today. Does Leica have no scruples—the Q3 has a 60MP sensor...! Well, jewelry and fashion has its place too."

"I checked out the Leica Q3 DNG files examples starting with pm-95546....DNG (seashore at sunset). I removed the extreme heavy-handed over-the-top processing settings and used my standard settings. At ISO 100 I see heavy noise due to underexposure, good sharpness in the central area, and lousy sharpness in outer zones. Just as predicted. Downsampled to 24MP it looks quite nice. At 45MP it is obviously unsharp. At 60MP... uggh."

"It’s not really a 60MP capture—because of distortion correction, 4.5 megapixels are discarded as part of the correction. So it is really a 55.5MP capture, and that’s before the massive stretching-apart of pixels in outer zones. What do you think... does that distinction perhaps fall just shy of marketing fraud?

"The stretch factor into the corners from distortion correction exceeds 1.26X linearly or 1.59X in pixels. In other words, corner resolution cannot exceed 37 megapixels, and worse than that in the extreme corners. At the edges the factor is 1.23X linearly, or 1.53X. In other words, edge resolution cannot exceed 39 megapixels. Worse, the math of it is one thing, but when details are smeared and acutance is lost when stretching, so it will not look sharp when enlarged. The lack of sharpness in outer zones is readily seen on the 24MP Leica Q, it was a joke on the 45MP Leica Q2, and at 60MP on the Leica Q3 it’s a sharpness dumpster fire"

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2023/20230524_2100-LeicaQ3.html

While I may not always see eye to eye with Lloyd, I must admit that I am genuinely impressed by his sincere and transparent attitude!



May 27, 2023 at 03:22 PM
rdeloe
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders


Fred Miranda wrote:
It seems unlikely that this reviewer will be receiving a pre-production Q3 for review anytime soon!

Here are a few excerpts from his comments about the Q3:

"I was shocked when Leica failed to update the 28mm f/1.7 lens from the original Leica Q for the Leica Q2. What was barely adequate on the 24-megapixel Q with visibly poor outer-zone sharpness became obviously unsharp (large outer zone area) on the 45-megapixel Q2 and Leica Q2 Monochrom. So ridiculous that I abandoned reviewing the Q2 after a first batch of examples. The marketing hoopla is at your expense, if you’re expecting
...Show more

I'm having a difficult time figuring out what Lloyd really thinks about it though....



May 27, 2023 at 03:32 PM
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