p.5 #1 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Jman13 wrote:
Doesn't this have a leaf shutter anyway? Not sure why electronic shutter would be much of a consideration, since I can't imagine the main shutter is loud.
p.5 #2 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
highdesertmesa wrote:
There is some expense tied to the name, but you can't forget that the cost to make these in Germany is exceedingly more expensive than Japan. If Leica moved it's lens manufacturing to Japan, they could produce lenses at a much more reasonable price – probably still double that of a Voigtlander, but not 10x as much.
There is also a big difference in the cost to produce some Leica lenses simply due to the smaller form factor. It's rumored there's only one person working at Leica with the skill to assemble the new 35 APO.
Supply (low) and demand (high) also plays a role.
The cost of the Leica name is not the only driver of the cost of their products....Show more →
Agreed. They've certainly worked out a great balance, and as I've said many, many times: they clearly know what they're doing and make extremely high quality products.
p.5 #4 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Jman13 wrote:
Let's be honest here, though - you're suggesting how affordable a Leica M kit is by proposing an 11 year old camera body and then all lenses NOT made by Leica...showing how insanely expensive Leica gear is.
If you bought the equivalent stuff using current production Leica lenses, you're getting an M11 with 28 Summicron, 50 APO Summicron and a 90 (Either summicron or Elmar). Total cost: $9000+$5100+$9100+$4100 (assuming Elmar) = $27,300.
And I'm sorry, there is no way anyone can convince me that a 50 APO Summicron is worth 9x what a Voigtlander 50/2 APO Lanthar is worth. Because the CV 50/2 APO is a near flawless lens optically. If the Leica is better, it's in exceptionally subtle ways.
And, as I said originally - I understand that this stuff is awesome gear, and it's luxury item stuff, but it is also OK to acknowledge the Leica name tax, because that certainly is part of the equation. And for many it may be worth it to pay that name tax to get what is a unique or premium product. The Q3 might be one such product, especially since Sony hasn't updated the RX1 series in so long, so there isn't even a true competitor. ...Show more →
It's difficult to justify the cost of Leica lenses when other brands offer similar or in some cases, even better performance. I could sell one of my Leica lenses and buy a whole kit of five lenses from Voigtlander and Zeiss instead. However, what makes Leica lenses special is their unique feel, mechanics, and style that other manufacturers try to imitate.
With a manual focus Leica M camera (instead of the Q), you have the flexibility to choose your preferred focal length and find a used lens that fits your needs. By sticking to this focal length and only adding another lens when absolutely necessary, you can keep your camera system compact and consistent without breaking the bank. For instance, you could consider pairing a used Leica M camera with either a used Leica 28mm and 50mm lens combination or a 35mm and 90mm lens combination.
p.5 #5 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
highdesertmesa wrote:
There is some expense tied to the name, but you can't forget that the cost to make these in Germany is exceedingly more expensive than Japan. If Leica moved it's lens manufacturing to Japan, they could produce lenses at a much more reasonable price – probably still double that of a Voigtlander, but not 10x as much.
There is also a big difference in the cost to produce some Leica lenses simply due to the smaller form factor. It's rumored there's only one person working at Leica with the skill to assemble the new 35 APO.
Supply (low) and demand (high) also plays a role.
The cost of the Leica name is not the only driver of the cost of their products....Show more →
Funny Leica had me take a survey where they asked if I would accept Leica products made in Japan in order to have a lower price.
p.5 #6 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Actually Leica Q/Q2/Q3 roots goes back to Leica Digilux 2 / Panasonic LC1 collaboration. Q3 shows the 20 years of P&S advancement as Q3 90mm 5.8MP crop matches to Digilux 2 28-90mm 5MP
p.5 #8 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
The Q3 looks really really good. I love all the upgrades. And I hope they all flow to the SL3 because I just can’t justify another fixed 28mm lens camera. My Q2 is fantastic but I reckon I’ve done less than a thousands frames in total. And I really don’t want to crop to 9MP….
I’m very happy for all of you who are enjoying the new Q. And FINALLY the buttons have been moved to the right. The play button is where it should be on all mirrorless cameras.
p.5 #10 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
flash wrote:
The Q3 looks really really good. I love all the upgrades. And I hope they all flow to the SL3 because I just can’t justify another fixed 28mm lens camera. My Q2 is fantastic but I reckon I’ve done less than a thousands frames in total. And I really don’t want to crop to 9MP….
I’m very happy for all of you who are enjoying the new Q. And FINALLY the buttons have been moved to the right. The play button is where it should be on all mirrorless cameras.
Gordon
I am so torn because yes, fundamentally the buttons should be on the right. But muscle memory between the Q and my M11 dictates they should be on the left
p.5 #11 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
lifeandmylens wrote:
Sure here is one better, with lots of vertical and horizontal lines. I didn't use a tripod since it wouldn't technically be an equal FOV since the Summaron is much smaller. So I set them both on a table with the front of each lens lined up with the front edge of the table. Also used an M10-r this time @ ISO 100. Lens corrections are turned off in LR. The Summaron as you can see vignettes a little.
Thank you for sharing this information. It's intriguing to note that Leica has provided a diagonal angle of view of 75 degrees for both their 28/5.6 Summaron and 28mm f/1.4 Summilux lenses. Based on my calculations, this corresponds to a focal length of 27.7mm for both lenses.. However, it is interesting that Leica does not disclose the angle of view for the lens on the Q camera and the reason behind this omission raises curiosity. Why would they choose not to provide that information?
Well, based on the uncorrected sample you shared, I tend to agree with the online comments suggesting that the Q's 28mm f/1.7 Lux lens is essentially a 24mm lens. Leica compensates for the hard vignetting and significant barrel distortion in-camera, resulting in an effective 26mm lens. It's likely that they labeled it as 28mm to avoid the unusual notion of a fixed 26mm lens. Nevertheless, a 26mm lens has both drawbacks and benefits, particularly when utilized for architectural and landscape photography. It's certainly worth considering! Thank again you for sharing this!
p.5 #12 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
highdesertmesa wrote:
There is some expense tied to the name, but you can't forget that the cost to make these in Germany is exceedingly more expensive than Japan. If Leica moved it's lens manufacturing to Japan, they could produce lenses at a much more reasonable price – probably still double that of a Voigtlander, but not 10x as much.
There is also a big difference in the cost to produce some Leica lenses simply due to the smaller form factor. It's rumored there's only one person working at Leica with the skill to assemble the new 35 APO.
Supply (low) and demand (high) also plays a role.
The cost of the Leica name is not the only driver of the cost of their products....Show more →
I don't see how German production adds 5x-10x costs compared to Japanese.
It looks like Leica has been historically very bad at raising talent. Only one person can assemble high quality lenses, only one person can polish high quality glass, etc. If they had two for each - could save a lot on labor costs. Their strategists should pay more attention to succession plan for production line employees.
p.5 #13 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thank you for sharing this information. It's intriguing to note that Leica has provided a diagonal angle of view of 75 degrees for both their 28/5.6 Summaron and 28mm f/1.4 Summilux lenses. Based on my calculations, this corresponds to a focal length of 27.7mm for both lenses.. However, it is interesting that Leica does not disclose the angle of view for the lens on the Q camera and the reason behind this omission raises curiosity. Why would they choose not to provide that information?
Well, based on the uncorrected sample you shared, I tend to agree with the online comments suggesting that the Q's 28mm f/1.7 Lux lens is essentially a 24mm lens. Leica compensates for the hard vignetting and significant barrel distortion in-camera, resulting in an effective 26mm lens. It's likely that they labeled it as 28mm to avoid the unusual notion of a fixed 26mm lens. Nevertheless, a 26mm lens has both drawbacks and benefits, particularly when utilized for architectural and landscape photography. It's certainly worth considering! Thank again you for sharing this! ...Show more →
All this does not sound like Leica, optical and mechanical perfection. Sounds more like collaboration with Chinese manufacturers where they sell the red dot badge.
p.5 #14 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thank you for sharing this information. It's intriguing to note that Leica has provided a diagonal angle of view of 75 degrees for both their 28/5.6 Summaron and 28mm f/1.4 Summilux lenses. Based on my calculations, this corresponds to a focal length of 27.7mm for both lenses.. However, it is interesting that Leica does not disclose the angle of view for the lens on the Q camera and the reason behind this omission raises curiosity. Why would they choose not to provide that information?
Well, based on the uncorrected sample you shared, I tend to agree with the online comments suggesting that the Q's 28mm f/1.7 Lux lens is essentially a 24mm lens. Leica compensates for the hard vignetting and significant barrel distortion in-camera, resulting in an effective 26mm lens. It's likely that they labeled it as 28mm to avoid the unusual notion of a fixed 26mm lens. Nevertheless, a 26mm lens has both drawbacks and benefits, particularly when utilized for architectural and landscape photography. It's certainly worth considering! Thank again you for sharing this! ...Show more →
My suspicion is that the the diagonal angle of view of the Summaron and the Summilux are reported since they are based on hardware and therefore a fixed value (at infinity). The Summilux on the Q series relies heavily on software correction and as such it's possible that there could be updates to firmware that might change the diagonal angle of view somewhat. I can't see them specifying a AOV of 77 degrees with firmware version 1.23...highlights the use of software correction, a practice that causes concern for some photographers.
p.5 #15 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
lensfan wrote:
I don't see how German production adds 5x-10x costs compared to Japanese.
It looks like Leica has been historically very bad at raising talent. Only one person can assemble high quality lenses, only one person can polish high quality glass, etc. If they had two for each - could save a lot on labor costs. Their strategists should pay more attention to succession plan for production line employees.
I pretty much said the same thing; that moving production to Japan would reduce the price, but they would still cost more than Voigtlander. I don’t understand the comment about “bad at raising talent”. Only one person can assemble the 35 APO, not the entire line, FFS.
A while back, Leica actually sent a survey out to some of us who own their gear. It was a lens survey on “this versus that” preferences. Most of the questions were about lens designs, but one asked a question about price on the same M lens, one made in Germany at $X and one in Japan at $X. The Japanese production example was much, much less. I don’t know all the reasons why, but if I had to guess, it probably was based on an estimate of having Panasonic, Sigma, or Cosina produce the lens.
p.5 #16 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Another probably useless comparison for most of you.
- Infinity with the Q3 and M10R+28 Summaron both @ f/5.6
- Infinity with the Q3 (in 35 crop mode @ f/1.7) and SL2-S+35SL @ f/2
The field of view on the 35mm crop mode is pretty close. Maybe 34mm. I left white balance on AWB and didn't correct in post. Only edit in post was -100 highlights on all of them.
LEICA M10-RSummaron-M 1:5.6/28 lens28mmf/5.61/30s100 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA Q3SUMMILUX 1:1.7/28 ASPH. lens28mmf/5.61/30s100 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA SL2-SSUMMICRON-SL 1:2/35 ASPH. lens35mmf/2.01/500s100 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA Q3SUMMILUX 1:1.7/28 ASPH. lens28mmf/1.71/500s100 ISO0.0 EV
p.5 #18 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
Fred Miranda wrote:
I appreciate the previous test. Would it be possible for you to conduct another test using a tripod? Additionally, I would like to thank you for providing the uncorrected version, which demonstrates the distortion.
According to online discussions, it is suggested that the Leica 28mm f/1.7 Summilux lens has a focal length of 24mm before distortion correction and 26mm after correction. It does not have the angle of view of a 28mm lens.
This explains a lot. I've owned the Q, Q2 and Q2M but after some use, even with all the advantages of the small package, I always find the images just a tad too wide for my liking.
Shouldn't there be more of an uproar about this? 24-26mm lens is different from 28. Leica shouldn't be allowed to market it as a 28/1.7 lens, it is basically false information.
p.5 #19 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
lifeandmylens wrote:
Rolling shutter.
Thanks for posting the technical images.
Question for you or those that might understand leaf shutter more than I:
My understanding is rolling shutter can be a result of slow sensor read out speed. However, since the Q cameras have always had a leaf shutter Q3 included, why are we seeing Q3 rolling shutter? From what I read the leaf shutter has the ability to lower or eliminate rolling shutter. Or am I mixing apples/oranges?
p.5 #20 · Official: Leica Q3 Unveiled, Now Open for Pre-Orders
LBJ2 wrote:
Thanks for posting the technical images.
Question for you or those that might understand leaf shutter more than I:
My understanding is rolling shutter can be a result of sensor read out speed. However, since the Q cameras have always had a leaf shutter Q3 included, why are we seeing Q3 rolling shutter? From what I read the leaf shutter has the ability to lower or eliminate rolling shutter. Or am I mixing apples/oranges?
The Leica Q3 uses Mechanical Shutter (leaf) for anything at or below 1/2000 sec and Electronic Shutter (ES) for anything above 1/2000 and up to 1/16000. That’s it I am reading the specs correctly .
The leaf shutter is still mechanical it’s just in the diaphragm of the lens.
