p.56 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
groob wrote:
Steve Perry confirmed that the Nikon 180-600 is made by Nikon, not Tamron. What a strange rumor to keep hanging around.
The lens we are discussing is the 70-180 f/2.8 which is inarguably made by Tamron for Nikon. I think our friend Alistaire1 just made a typo referencing the Nikon made 180-200mm.
Jun 26, 2023 at 06:44 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.56 #2 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
sjms wrote:
You do try hard screaming about absolutely nothing. But you just end up sounding that you are doing just that.
What purpose do you serve here other than petty annoyance? You should work on your photographic skills instead
Just pointing out the irony in the fact that the "Game Changing" feature of not including a mechanical shutter because of the benefit of supposedly superior reliability and reduced cost then gets undermined by some other designmanufacturing fault that results in a mass recall.
So I ask myself whether this(hardware recall) is just a symptom of trying to achieve a certain price point ? And what other designmanufacturing flaws might still come to light ? Is the repair a long term repair or is the problem going to re-occur just after warrantee expires ?
Of course there is also a whole lot of irony to be found in the fact that you're the one who has just posted and contributed nothing to the discussion while at the same time complaining about the very same thing.
"Thinks to self: 'this is more than just a petty annoyance - a petty annoyance you wouldn't write about'"
If you just want an echo chamber of your own opinions go lock yourself in a bathroom - if you want to hear(read) robust discussion, including hearing opinions and/or speculation that you may dislike or disagree with then come here.
p.56 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
The lens we are discussing is the 70-180 f/2.8 which is inarguably made by Tamron for Nikon. I think our friend Alistaire1 just made a typo referencing the Nikon made 180-200mm.
p.56 #4 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
Just pointing out the irony in the fact that the "Game Changing" feature of not including a mechanical shutter because of the benefit of supposedly superior reliability and reduced cost then gets undermined by some other designmanufacturing fault that results in a mass recall.
So I ask myself whether this(hardware recall) is just a symptom of trying to achieve a certain price point ? And what other designmanufacturing flaws might still come to light ? Is the repair a long term repair or is the problem going to re-occur just after warrantee expires ?
Of course there is also a whole lot of irony to be found in the fact that you're the one who has just posted and contributed nothing to the discussion while at the same time complaining about the very same thing.
"Thinks to self: 'this is more than just a petty annoyance - a petty annoyance you wouldn't write about'"
If you just want an echo chamber of your own opinions go lock yourself in a bathroom - if you want to hear(read) robust discussion, including hearing opinions and/or speculation that you may dislike or disagree with then come here.
Nope, petty annoyance fits you just fine. You, like those before you, seem hell bent to self destruct while going nowhere. another prophet of doom. its simple, continue shooting pics with your chosen gear the way you wish to do. there is no need to worry about other people's choices. we all have our crosses to bear. don't be one of them. let your images be the story you want to inspire with.
p.56 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Just pointing out the irony in the fact that the "Game Changing" feature of not including a mechanical shutter because of the benefit of supposedly superior reliability and reduced cost then gets undermined by some other designmanufacturing fault that results in a mass recall.
So I ask myself whether this(hardware recall) is just a symptom of trying to achieve a certain price point ? And what other designmanufacturing flaws might still come to light ? Is the repair a long term repair or is the problem going to re-occur just after warrantee expires ?
You realize that a mount tolerance issue is completely unrelated to the decision to get rid of the mechanical shutter, right?
It can happen with or without a mechanical shutter, has only impacted a few thousand bodies, was quickly identified by Nikon and is being corrected.
The repair is most probably a switch of lens mount and is 100% certainly a definite one, despite your amusing attempts to spread FUD that it may be of chronic nature, some sort of disease that would affect steel and cause it to change size over time right? A disease unique to Nikon I guess?
p.56 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Didn’t mean to stir up a hornets nest with my question about the sensor cover. And I got the sensor cover comment about substantial build quality from Nikons website. Just wanted to know if any other camp as an issue with it breaking.
Also. Major kudos to Nikon for acknowledging an issue with the lens mount.
p.56 #7 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
Just pointing out the irony in the fact that the "Game Changing" feature of not including a mechanical shutter because of the benefit of supposedly superior reliability and reduced cost then gets undermined by some other designmanufacturing fault that results in a mass recall.
So I ask myself whether this(hardware recall) is just a symptom of trying to achieve a certain price point ? And what other designmanufacturing flaws might still come to light ? Is the repair a long term repair or is the problem going to re-occur just after warrantee expires ?
Of course there is also a whole lot of irony to be found in the fact that you're the one who has just posted and contributed nothing to the discussion while at the same time complaining about the very same thing.
"Thinks to self: 'this is more than just a petty annoyance - a petty annoyance you wouldn't write about'"
If you just want an echo chamber of your own opinions go lock yourself in a bathroom - if you want to hear(read) robust discussion, including hearing opinions and/or speculation that you may dislike or disagree with then come here.
...Show more →
This is my guess from past experience with pharma quality … From what I’ve gathered the issue is not a design flaw and is rather simply a part quality issue. When a vendor lot/batch of a part/commodity is received a small portion of the lot/batch is tested against specifications (ie. Dimensions, function, etc) to be judged as a representation of the entire lot. If I had to guess, a lot/s were either tested improperly or passed the reduced testing but Nikon had enough complaints that allowed them to isolate the issue to certain part lot/s. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the same issue was present on the Z9. It’s likely the same part/lot was used in manufacturing both cameras. Z9 recall was Dec 2022. Z8 cameras were likely manufactured around that same time and the recall was planned because Nikon was beyond the point where it would be feasible to correct the issue in house. That part lot is probably depleted or trashed now, and higher scrutiny will be given to ensure future lots of that part function as intended.
This has zero to do with the shutter shield or build robustness.
p.56 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
Just pointing out the irony in the fact that the "Game Changing" feature of not including a mechanical shutter because of the benefit of supposedly superior reliability and reduced cost then gets undermined by some other designmanufacturing fault that results in a mass recall.
So I ask myself whether this(hardware recall) is just a symptom of trying to achieve a certain price point ? And what other designmanufacturing flaws might still come to light ? Is the repair a long term repair or is the problem going to re-occur just after warrantee expires ?
Of course there is also a whole lot of irony to be found in the fact that you're the one who has just posted and contributed nothing to the discussion while at the same time complaining about the very same thing.
"Thinks to self: 'this is more than just a petty annoyance - a petty annoyance you wouldn't write about'"
If you just want an echo chamber of your own opinions go lock yourself in a bathroom - if you want to hear(read) robust discussion, including hearing opinions and/or speculation that you may dislike or disagree with then come here.
As others have pointed out, this has nothing to do with the removal of the shutter, and your “fear” about systematically inferior design or manufacturing has already been disproven by the Z9’s performance in the field. Hope you enjoy robust discussion!
p.56 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Funny how a voluntary technical service advisory seemingly affecting very few people in practice somehow morphs into a "mass recall" (completely different) depending on what brand allegiance you have
Service advisories and occasionally actual recalls (done when a genuine safety risk exists) are a good thing. No product is perfect and there are many well known issues with other cameras that were never acknowledged or addressed with a proper service bulletin, leaving customers unhappy in various inconsistent states of resolution. The lack of a service advisory does not necessarily indicate an issue-free product, as we have seen time and time again in the industry. The alternative is waiting until it's too late, and forcing everyone through the warranty system, which has it's own challenges especially if the issue at hand hasn't been formally acknowledged by the manufacturer.
p.56 #10 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
"The alternative is waiting until it's too late, and forcing everyone through the warranty system, which has it's own challenges especially if the issue at hand hasn't been formally acknowledged by the manufacturer. "
That says it all and should close the door on negative postings on the recall.
Nikon for this
Jun 27, 2023 at 01:11 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.56 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
bernardl wrote:
You realize that a mount tolerance issue is completely unrelated to the decision to get rid of the mechanical shutter, right?
It can happen with or without a mechanical shutter, has only impacted a few thousand bodies, was quickly identified by Nikon and is being corrected.
The repair is most probably a switch of lens mount and is 100% certainly a definite one, despite your amusing attempts to spread FUD that it may be of chronic nature, some sort of disease that would affect steel and cause it to change size over time right? A disease unique to Nikon I guess?
Cheers,
Bernard
You're just speculating about the type of fault and the nature of the fix. They had a similar issue with the Z9 - so you might think that would result in extra care before shipping the Z8 to avoid another expensive product recall.
I never suggested that the lack of mechanical shutter had anything to do with the mount recall. I was pointing out the irony of crowing about greater reliability of the device without a mechanical shutter and then having a mass recall because of a lens mount failure - and not just one isolated incident - but twice, once on the Z9 and once on the Z8. Maybe Thailand manufacturing is still ironing out the kinks.
p.56 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
You're just speculating about the type of fault and the nature of the fix. They had a similar issue with the Z9 - so you might think that would result in extra care before shipping the Z8 to avoid another expensive product recall.
I never suggested that the lack of mechanical shutter had anything to do with the mount recall. I was pointing out the irony of crowing about greater reliability of the device without a mechanical shutter and then having a mass recall because of a lens mount failure - and not just one isolated incident - but twice, once on the Z9 and once on the Z8. Maybe Thailand manufacturing is still ironing out the kinks.
Extra care before shipping the Z8 would not have necessarily found the issue as it affected only a very few Z8's. This would mean that to know that there was an issue they would have to check the mount of every camera before sending out which is clearly not done with any camera manufacturer. The Nikon repair centre I took mine to said that there was only about 10 worldwide so far that has so far had an issue but of course there may be more. They only recommend sending (mine in) so they can actually check to make sure there is no future issue.
The only one crowing here is you that Nikon has had a manufacturing issue.
p.56 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
You're just speculating about the type of fault and the nature of the fix. They had a similar issue with the Z9 - so you might think that would result in extra care before shipping the Z8 to avoid another expensive product recall.
I never suggested that the lack of mechanical shutter had anything to do with the mount recall. I was pointing out the irony of crowing about greater reliability of the device without a mechanical shutter and then having a mass recall because of a lens mount failure - and not just one isolated incident - but twice, once on the Z9 and once on the Z8. Maybe Thailand manufacturing is still ironing out the kinks.
Yes, *we* are speculating about an issue that Nikon has clearly explained and taken affirmative steps to fix. It’s definitely not *you* who is speculating wildly based on a total lack of information and understanding of manufacturing process. It must not also be you who is extrapolating from your ignorance that Nikon as a company is not dependable.
p.56 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Lance B wrote:
Extra care before shipping the Z8 would not have necessarily found the issue as it affected only a very few Z8's. This would mean that to know that there was an issue they would have to check the mount of every camera before sending out which is clearly not done with any camera manufacturer. The Nikon repair centre I took mine to said that there was only about 10 worldwide so far that has so far had an issue but of course there may be more. They only recommend sending (mine in) so they can actually check to make sure there is no future issue.
The only one crowing here is you that Nikon has had a manufacturing issue. ...Show more →
Interesting only about 10 camera's worldwide Lance. Which makes me wonder how they came up with the range of serial numbers. I don't think any of us know that.
Mine is not going back because it rotates, clicks and releases flawlessly with all my f-mount lenses and the FTZII.. I am certain that there is nothing wrong with it at all.
I estimate that my FTZII has *less than 1mm* play/travel when coupled to my Z8. I can barely detect any movement at all. And all the lenses (all Nikon AFS) have about 1mm play/travel with the FTZII. That is it. That is tight!
The tolerances are so close that my Z8/FTZII/500PF unit feels just as though it was manufactured as one piece, not coupled together.
Believe me folks, if it is warranted...I am a big complainer. Before I received my Z8 I read some whining on this forum about the FTZII being a pain ITB. About what I thought? There is absolutely no looseness whatsoever.... ZERO!
And talk about fast. This unit is blistering fast and lightweight. I have no reason to rush to a long Z lens, except for......the added stabilization.
Thanks for the actual feedback from a Nikon repair center, and for standing up and setting them straight Lance.
p.56 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
bs kite wrote:
Interesting only about 10 camera's worldwide Lance. Which makes me wonder how they came up with the range of serial numbers. I don't think any of us know that.
Mine is not going back because it rotates, clicks and releases flawlessly with all my f-mount lenses and the FTZII.. I am certain that there is nothing wrong with it at all.
I estimate that my FTZII has *less than 1mm* play/travel when coupled to my Z8. I can barely detect any movement at all. And all the lenses (all Nikon AFS) have about 1mm play/travel with the FTZII. That is it. That is tight!
The tolerances are so close that my Z8/FTZII/500PF unit feels just as though it was manufactured as one piece, not coupled together.
Believe me folks, if it is warranted...I am a big complainer. Before I received my Z8 I read some whining on this forum about the FTZII being a pain ITB. About what I thought? There is absolutely no looseness whatsoever.... ZERO!
And talk about fast. This unit is blistering fast and lightweight. I have no reason to rush to a long Z lens, except for......the added stabilization.
Thanks for the actual feedback from a Nikon repair center, and for standing up and setting them straight Lance.
I'm not sure of the accuracy of their claim as it might have been a bit of an off the cuff comment. It was part of a comment that a particular technician saying there were very few so far that actually had an issue and that the number 10 being used to emphasise the lowish number of actual problems rather than those that are in the affected serial number range. In other words, those in the affected serial number range far outweigh those that actually have the non-fit issue that is the cause of the recall.
p.56 #16 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Couldn't agree more! Nikon has always been transparent about such recalls on multiple models and thankfully they don't let their existing users scratch their heads by not even acknowledging a genuine issue. I wonder if the Sony A7R4 ever had a recall with multiple users complaining about AF compatibility/ inconsistency issues when used with the 200-600 lens? Maybe that's not the way they work and instead they try to launch a new version of the same product? As long as a company is honest to acknowledge the problem and fix it, I'm perfectly fine.
Lance B wrote:
Extra care before shipping the Z8 would not have necessarily found the issue as it affected only a very few Z8's. This would mean that to know that there was an issue they would have to check the mount of every camera before sending out which is clearly not done with any camera manufacturer. The Nikon repair centre I took mine to said that there was only about 10 worldwide so far that has so far had an issue but of course there may be more. They only recommend sending (mine in) so they can actually check to make sure there is no future issue.
The only one crowing here is you that Nikon has had a manufacturing issue. ...Show more →
p.56 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
The Z8 looks like such a good camera, but it's just so big. I hope Nikon can release the same (or very similar) AF system in the form factor of the Z5/6/7 bodies in the future. I'm primarily a Canon shooter, but I picked up a Z5 and the 50/1.8 and 24-70/4 for a base kit to be able to review Nikon glass and such, and that form factor is like this interesting middle ground between my R5 and the Sony mirrorless cameras. I could see a slightly larger form factor working well. The Z8 is very intriguing for a top-end camera, but it's just too big for me.
p.56 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
bs kite wrote:
"The alternative is waiting until it's too late, and forcing everyone through the warranty system, which has it's own challenges especially if the issue at hand hasn't been formally acknowledged by the manufacturer. "
That says it all and should close the door on negative postings on the recall.
Nikon for this
Exactly. IMHO Nikon is on top of issues. Small or large from what I'm reading. Sony knows there are issues with shutter failure. But offering a recall to fix that issue when it happens is not something they do or acknowledge.
I had to send my Sony A7IV in just before the warranty expired because it would randomly focus, not focus. Turning the camera on and off several times is not what I paid my hard earned money for. And I'm not alone with my issue. Also it was overheating just setting up the menu! They replaced the mother board and now it's working fine for the past several months.
p.56 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
You're just speculating about the type of fault and the nature of the fix. They had a similar issue with the Z9 - so you might think that would result in extra care before shipping the Z8 to avoid another expensive product recall.
I never suggested that the lack of mechanical shutter had anything to do with the mount recall. I was pointing out the irony of crowing about greater reliability of the device without a mechanical shutter and then having a mass recall because of a lens mount failure - and not just one isolated incident - but twice, once on the Z9 and once on the Z8. Maybe Thailand manufacturing is still ironing out the kinks.
Nikon for this
Before I received my Z8 I read some whining on this forum about the FTZII being a pain ITB. About what I thought? There is absolutely no looseness whatsoever.... ZERO! 