p.55 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
There was a lot of trumpeting about the Z9/Z8 not having mechanical shutter and therefor being much more robust etc.. Still there seem to be a lot of reports of other mechanical issues and now a recall of virtually all the Z8's for mechanical problems.
Certainly raises eyebrows when there are claims about being more robust and then you have a mass recall.
So at the end of the day it seems they are not any better designed or built than any other camera.
Just saying...
I didn't intend my comment to be a statement on the build quality or durability of Nikon cameras. In my experience Nikon's gear is high on both counts as is that of all the major brands. My post was primarily aimed at reassuring azheaven that the use of a shutter to protect the sensor from dust was nothing new, not subject to frequent failures, and not a problem to be concerned with on the Sony A7IV.
The recall on some Z8/9 for an improperly machined mounting flange is unfortunate for those affected, but doesn't indicate a problem with Nikon's manufacturing quality overall. My eyebrows remain unraised.
p.55 #2 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
Certainly raises eyebrows when there are claims about being more robust and then you have a mass recall.
You're confusing robustness with manufacturing quality control - one has very little to do with the other.
Jun 25, 2023 at 10:52 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.55 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
I didn't intend my comment to be a statement on the build quality or durability of Nikon cameras. In my experience Nikon's gear is high on both counts as is that of all the major brands. My post was primarily aimed at reassuring azheaven that the use of a shutter to protect the sensor from dust was nothing new, not subject to frequent failures, and not a problem to be concerned with on the Sony A7IV.
The recall on some Z8/9 for an improperly machined mounting flange is unfortunate for those affected, but doesn't indicate a problem with Nikon's manufacturing quality overall. My eyebrows remain unraised. ...Show more →
Yes I realised your comment was not intended as such. Mine was a more general observation that Nikon's standard of design/manufacturing doesn't appear to be quite as high as some like to believe it is.
As for shutter failure on the A7iv - so while the Z8/9 don't have a shutter, it still seems the Z8/Z9 owner is far more likely to have a problem attaching or detaching lenses than the A7iv owner is to encounter a shutter failure.
p.55 #4 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Nikon had the good sense to immediately acknowledge the potential defect within days of releasing the model
and arrange to fix everyone's cameras for free. Yes, it does suck to have to send it in, be without it for days/weeks,
and then hope and pray they return your camera in good condition without dirtying up the sensor,
or having the camera be damaged in shipping it back and forth without the box (which Nikon insists on).
p.55 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
The risk is that one touches the shutter when changing lenses. It isn't rated for those.
molson wrote:
And yet it's rated for half a million actuations... if you change your lenses that often, the mounting flange will be worn out before the shutter is...
p.55 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
It is better for Nikon to be prudent on a risk to the lens mount - professional.
On the question of weather sealing and robustness of Nikon Pro cameras, no worries...well proven with the recent cameras - real-world tests and teardowns :
p.55 #7 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I have 3 lenses. Sony 24-105, 100-400 and a rarely used Sigma 105 macro. The 100-400 is on my camera 99% of the time. Unless I head to the Grand Canyon or other landscape areas near me. So changing lenses is minimal compared to some. Not sure about the shutter actuation number. I know the A9/A1 shutter system is rated for 500k but the A7IV is probably half that.
molson wrote:
And yet it's rated for half a million actuations... if you change your lenses that often, the mounting flange will be worn out before the shutter is...
p.55 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
My old A7III didn’t have that feature. I believe it was introduced with the A1 in 2021. And I tried several different Sony cameras since 2018 that didn’t have it.
My question was because it’s being reported more and more. And shutter failures are happening just taking photos. Not by using the anti dust feature.
Like I read on Nikons website. The Z8 & 9 has a more robust anti dust mechanism.
1bwana1 wrote:
Using the shutter down mode when the camera is off is a common feature. It is nothing new either. Sony has been using it for a number of years now, also Canon and others. Leica has had this feature on its digital M cameras from the first one, way back in the early 2000s. Think about it, film cameras have pretty much always had it. There have been no reports of frequent failures because of this feature over many years. It sure does help keep the dust spots down.
Sony gives the caution that one must be careful when changing lenses and such not to touch, or accidently bump this protective shutter. It can break, and of course this kind of user error would not be covered under warrantee. Although not using this shutter at image making speed so that it can probably be built a bit tougher, Nikon gave the same cautions at both Z9 and Z8 presentations I attended. Not sure what the manual says about it.
In any case shutter failure has not been a problem in the A7RIV camera (or any Sony Camera) over many years of use. I don't worry about it on my cameras (Sony and Leica). Every A1 shooter I know uses electronic shutter almost exclusively when shooting, and uses the optional shutter down when camera is off mode. This is functionally identical to the way the Z8/9 work. It is nothing new except in Nikon cameras, where it is mis-characterized as an innovation for marketing purposes....Show more →
p.55 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Nikons protective shield is more robust from what I’ve read. And apologies for calling it a shutter! It sure does help with keeping dust off the sensor. Was just curious if anyone had any issues with any other Nikon cameras that have this feature.
story_teller wrote:
One great feature of the Z8 and Z9 is a protective cover (not a shutter) that can drop down in front of the sensor when you power the camera off. It's designed to protect the sensor and minimize dust/debris when changing lenses. You have the option to utilize it or not in the menu. Most will use it.
p.55 #10 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
NikonClio64 wrote:
It is better for Nikon to be prudent on a risk to the lens mount - professional.
On the question of weather sealing and robustness of Nikon Pro cameras, no worries...well proven with the recent cameras - real-world tests and teardowns :
p.55 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Yes indeed, the final word really >>
"This is not marketing department weather resistance. This is engineering department weather resistance. Anything that can be sealed has been sealed. I’m impressed, and I will say for future cut-and-paste blurbs: this is as robustly weather sealed a camera as we’ve ever disassembled.
I don’t believe in weather resistance myself. I believe like life; water will find a way. I believe in plastic baggies and rubber bands. I am, however, a great believer in the idea that if you claim to do something, then damn well do it right. This is done right.
I’m impressed by the very solid construction of the chassis and IBIS unit. I’m impressed with the neat, modern engineering of the electrical connections. Yes, I’m aware that soldered wires carry electricity just fine, but to me, there’s something reassuring about seeing neat, well thought out, 2018 level engineering.
I’m not here to tell you which camera is best to use or has the best performance. I’m just here to say this is a damn well-built camera, the best built mirrorless full-frame camera we’ve taken apart."
bs kite wrote:
Thank you for the positive post about the Z8.
Roger Cicala's weather sealing "Conclusion" was especially encouraging.
p.55 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
Yes I realised your comment was not intended as such. Mine was a more general observation that Nikon's standard of design/manufacturing doesn't appear to be quite as high as some like to believe it is.
As for shutter failure on the A7iv - so while the Z8/9 don't have a shutter, it still seems the Z8/Z9 owner is far more likely to have a problem attaching or detaching lenses than the A7iv owner is to encounter a shutter failure.
You do try hard screaming about absolutely nothing. But you just end up sounding that you are doing just that.
What purpose do you serve here other than petty annoyance? You should work on your photographic skills instead
p.55 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
This entire video is Nikon marketing Nikon. Much of it's content is about technology that is new only to the Nikon community, not the industry as a whole. I think that harsh treatment Nikon got these past years because it was behind for so many years, drove many Nikon fans into only following Nikon only websites and content like this video. The Z8/9 cameras have finally brought Nikon to parity among the brands. Time to look at the larger industry again. Nikon now has a single camera, in two form factors, that offers competitive performance. Time to come out of your shells guys. Nikon is on the way back.
NikonClio64 wrote:
It is better for Nikon to be prudent on a risk to the lens mount - professional.
I 100% agree on this.
NikonClio64 wrote:
On the question of weather sealing and robustness of Nikon Pro cameras, no worries...well proven with the recent cameras - real-world tests and teardowns :
That 2018 teardown of the Z7 has no relevance to the Z8 specifically. The Z8 uses an entirely different chassis design, and materials. Even very different from the Z9. That being said, my personal experience is that Nikon cameras tend to be as well built, and durable as any other brand on the market. My D810 got put to the test on that a number of times. But Steve Perry's experience with his Z9 has him believing that the Sony A1 was a more reliable camera of the two. He has been very open about this. They are all very well built these days.
NikonClio64 wrote:
Mark Cruz, Nikon USA explains why the Z8 and Z9 use a electronic shutter only
from 21:50min
Anyone who has been paying attention to the wider industry is aware that 100% of the reasons stated for using electronic shutter in the Z8/9 in the video have been available in other brands since 2017 when Sony released the A9 stacked sensor based camera. Not one new thing. Not one. During those six years many of these stacked sensor cameras have never used a mechanical shutter. They have a zero shutter count after all these years. In fact, when Nikon released the Z9 there were significant deficiencies in how Nikon had implemented electronic shutter shooting. These deficiencies were better handled in the shutter optional cameras. Nikon has done a good job of addressing most of these.
p.55 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
This entire video is Nikon marketing Nikon. Much of it's content is about technology that is new only to the Nikon community, not the industry as a whole. I think that harsh treatment Nikon got these past years because it was behind for so many years, drove many Nikon fans into only following Nikon only websites and content like this video. The Z8/9 cameras have finally brought Nikon to parity among the brands. Time to look at the larger industry again. Nikon now has a single camera, in two form factors, that offers competitive performance. Time to come out of your shells guys. Nikon is on the way back.
I 100% agree on this.
That 2018 teardown of the Z7 has no relevance to the Z8 specifically. The Z8 uses an entirely different chassis design, and materials. Even very different from the Z9. That being said, my personal experience is that Nikon cameras tend to be as well built, and durable as any other brand on the market. My D810 got put to the test on that a number of times. But Steve Perry's experience with his Z9 has him believing that the Sony A1 was a more reliable camera of the two. He has been very open about this. They are all very well built these days.
Anyone who has been paying attention to the wider industry is aware that 100% of the reasons stated for using electronic shutter in the Z8/9 in the video have been available in other brands since 2017 when Sony released the A9 stacked sensor based camera. Not one new thing. Not one. During those six years many of these stacked sensor cameras have never used a mechanical shutter. They have a zero shutter count after all these years. In fact, when Nikon released the Z9 there were significant deficiencies in how Nikon had implemented electronic shutter shooting. These deficiencies were better handled in the shutter optional cameras. Nikon has done a good job of addressing most of these. ...Show more →
>>>>
That video is shared at that point for for Nikon's explanation(s) for the electronic shutter.
It is however widely known that Nikon Z system is selling well: 40 optics and excellent cameras, but besides the point. As to what content, Nikon users read / watch is irrelevant, and they are very likely qualified and capable of finding reliable information of the subjects that take their fancies
>>>>
>>>>
The 2018 teardown and other reliable information on quality on Nikon's recent camera is relevant and there is no evidence it is to the contrary.... Those of us with outdoor experience with these cameras are not suprised. What holds for the D850, D5, D6 holds for the Z6, Z7, Z8....Z9. The company has its high standards
>>>>
We all know that stuff about the introductions of mirrorless cameras, in which Nikon broke new ground with the Nikon 1 system in 2011..... The Sony life story has been repeated ad nauseum in these Nikon threads - it is irrelevant to this thread and forum.
Don't see the relevance as to who did what when, the fact is Nikon has decided to dispense with the mechanical shutter entirely in the Z9 and now Z8. It's cutting their costs obviously with spin offs to camera owners.
In any case, Nikonians are spoiled with more than sufficient choices within Nikon across F-mount and Z-mount lenses besides all the excellent Nikon cameras.
>>>>
p.55 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I used the Z8 for several hours this past weekend and I am definitely keeping her - recall be damned!
Lenses I've tried so far
- Nikon z 24-70mm f/2.8 S
- Nikon z 50mm f/1.2 S
- Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 GM ii
- Sony 200-600mm g/5.6-6.3 G
I was not thrilled at all last year when I briefly tried the Z9 - it was heavy and took up so much space in my bag.
I love the solid feel, handling and quality look of the Z8 - it just feels right to me.
In my small shoulder bag, I currently have
- Nikon Z8 + Z 24-70mm f/2.8 S
- Sony A1 + 70-200mm f/2.8 GM ii
- Megadap adapter
p.55 #16 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
NikonClio64 wrote:
>>>>
That video is shared at that point for for Nikon's explanation(s) for the electronic shutter.
It is however widely known that Nikon Z system is selling well: 40 optics and excellent cameras, but besides the point. As to what content, Nikon users read / watch is irrelevant, and they are very likely qualified and capable of finding reliable information of the subjects that take their fancies
>>>>
>>>>
The 2018 teardown and other reliable information on quality on Nikon's recent camera is relevant and there is no evidence it is to the contrary.... Those of us with outdoor experience with these cameras are not suprised. What holds for the D850, D5, D6 holds for the Z6, Z7, Z8....Z9. The company has its high standards
>>>>
We all know that stuff about the introductions of mirrorless cameras, in which Nikon broke new ground with the Nikon 1 system in 2011..... The Sony life story has been repeated ad nauseum in these Nikon threads - it is irrelevant to this thread and forum.
Don't see the relevance as to who did what when, the fact is Nikon has decided to dispense with the mechanical shutter entirely in the Z9 and now Z8. It's cutting their costs obviously with spin offs to camera owners.
In any case, Nikonians are spoiled with more than sufficient choices within Nikon across F-mount and Z-mount lenses besides all the excellent Nikon cameras.
>>>>
p.55 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
saaketham wrote:
I used the Z8 for several hours this past weekend and I am definitely keeping her - recall be damned!
Lenses I've tried so far
- Nikon z 24-70mm f/2.8 S
- Nikon z 50mm f/1.2 S
- Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 GM ii
- Sony 200-600mm g/5.6-6.3 G
I was not thrilled at all last year when I briefly tried the Z9 - it was heavy and took up so much space in my bag.
I love the solid feel, handling and quality look of the Z8 - it just feels right to me.
In my small shoulder bag, I currently have
- Nikon Z8 + Z 24-70mm f/2.8 S
- Sony A1 + 70-200mm f/2.8 GM ii
- Megadap adapter ...Show more →
It’s nice that you are able to go back and forth between the ergonomics and controls of two different brands. My 57 year old brain won’t tolerate that
You are smart to keep that Sony 70-200/2.8 II - it’s the best zoom I’ve ever used from any brand, and the handling/weight is a dream. That’s my most used focal length range for intimate landscapes and it will be very hard to ever pry this lens out of my hands.
p.55 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Ross Martin wrote:
It’s nice that you are able to go back and forth between the ergonomics and controls of two different brands. My 57 year old brain won’t tolerate that
You are smart to keep that Sony 70-200/2.8 II - it’s the best zoom I’ve ever used from any brand, and the handling/weight is a dream. That’s my most used focal length range for intimate landscapes and it will be very hard to ever pry this lens out of my hands.
The Sony 70-200 is very nice - small and light. I have been considering adapting this lens as the Nikon version is much bigger and heavier. But the recently released Tamkon 180-200 is even smaller and lighter and judging by the MTF charts looks a little better optically than the Sony. It is also a lot cheaper and if course available in Z mount. Build quality probably favours the Sony but so it should given the asking price.
p.55 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Alistair1 wrote:
The Sony 70-200 is very nice - small and light. I have been considering adapting this lens as the Nikon version is much bigger and heavier. But the recently released Tamkon 180-200 is even smaller and lighter and judging by the MTF charts looks a little better optically than the Sony. It is also a lot cheaper and if course available in Z mount. Build quality probably favours the Sony but so it should given the asking price.
I had the Tamron 70-180 f/2.8. I loved the size and weight of it. I preferred it over the first generation Sony 70-200 GM. I was overall happy with the images it produced.
I now have the Sony 70-200 f/2.8 GM vII for a number of reasons.
First it is also a reasonable size and weight. It still fits in my small 3 zoom kit bag.
It has programable buttons on it.
Optically it is better by a noticeable amount. In fact, it is the best zoom I have ever shot. I love the images it produces.
I did miss the 20mm the Tamron lacked.
The image stabilization is like having an extra couple of stops to shoot with.
I can use my TC with it. This makes it a 70-400 with very little extra weight. With the 1.4 X TC IQ is seemingly unaffected. With the 2 X TC there is a very small difference in IQ.
The Tamron is a nice lens. But you are making serious compromises in a number of areas with it. The 70-200 GM vII is a World class lens. Be sure you understand and try each before deciding between the two.
On the other hand, our photography group did shoot the Sony GM on our A1, next to the 70-200 f/2.8 S on the Z9 and Z7II Nikon extensively on a trip to the Palouse last Spring. The images were seen to be functionally identical by all. As sensitive as I am about size and weight, I would still choose to stay native Z if I were shooting a Nikon system.
p.55 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Alistair1 wrote:
The Sony 70-200 is very nice - small and light. I have been considering adapting this lens as the Nikon version is much bigger and heavier. But the recently released Tamkon 180-200 is even smaller and lighter and judging by the MTF charts looks a little better optically than the Sony. It is also a lot cheaper and if course available in Z mount. Build quality probably favours the Sony but so it should given the asking price.
Steve Perry confirmed that the Nikon 180-600 is made by Nikon, not Tamron. What a strange rumor to keep hanging around.
