p.54 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Ricci's 180-600 video might be of interest to those reading the nonsense about the Z8/Z9 not being able to focus on white birds.
I think Ricci is aware of those comments as he seemed to go out of his way to mention in every single example (while shooting white birds in poor conditions taking up a small portion of the frame) how the AF had no issues. There is Atomos footage as well towards the end. Further, he was shooting in fog into the sun, so pretty much a worst case scenario where contrast on the white birds was incredibly low, and after that, he was shooting in extremely harsh sunlight - both torture tests for any AF system, and white birds were a non-issue. Relevant parts around 11:50, 17:00. 26:30.
p.54 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
CanadaMark wrote:
Ricci's 180-600 video might be of interest to those reading the nonsense about the Z8/Z9 not being able to focus on white birds.
I think Ricci is aware of those comments as he seemed to go out of his way to mention in every single example (while shooting white birds in poor conditions taking up a small portion of the frame) how the AF had no issues. There is Atomos footage as well towards the end. Further, he was shooting in fog into the sun, so pretty much a worst case scenario where contrast on the white birds was incredibly low, and after that, he was shooting in extremely harsh sunlight - both torture tests for any AF system, and white birds were a non-issue. Relevant parts around 11:50, 17:00. 26:30. ...Show more →
There are times where my bird subjects over water are just as big in frame and the camera INSISTS on racking focus instead of finding the subject as shown in that video. I wish it was that reliable all the time.
Ricci is not an impartial voice, and I find it highly unlikely he'd showcase the Nikon system struggling with a brand new lens.
p.54 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
3catsinky wrote:
anyone using OWC atlas pro CFExpress in their Z8?
I've never heard of that company, but a quick check suggests the 'pro' model only has a minimum sustained write speed of 140MB/s to 400MB/s depending on the cards capacity, which is quite poor. They have an "Ultra" model that claims 1300MB/s for that metric (also the only card their chart recommends for the Z8/Z9), which is still slower than the go-to cards most people use like the Delkin Blacks (all capacities) or Delkin Power G4's (650GB and above). If you want the unlimited buffer experience (20fps HE* / 15fps lossless) in your Z8, you need the ~1,400 MB/s and above cards, and that has to be a minimum sustained write speed, not a maximum speed.
Depending on how you plan to use your camera, heat is also an issue with CFE cards, and the Delkin Blacks run the coolest, by as much as 20 degrees C depending on what cards you compare them to. I have no idea what the OWC cards are like in that regard, but I suspect you're going to be better off sticking to the tried & true memory card brands that have been independently verified to work well in all the areas you want them to.
Jun 22, 2023 at 04:32 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.54 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RoamingScott wrote:
There are times where my bird subjects over water are just as big in frame and the camera INSISTS on racking focus instead of finding the subject as shown in that video. I wish it was that reliable all the time.
Ricci is not an impartial voice, and I find it highly unlikely he'd showcase the Nikon system struggling with a brand new lens.
p.54 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
What I would like to know is regarding not only the Z8 but other Nikon models, is shutter failures.
I’ve been lucky with my first Sony A7III and now A7IV. But the subject of shutter failure is once again raising its ugly head with the A7IV.
Sony uses a shutter down option for keeping dust off the sensor. But even Sony recommends not using it due to the shutter possibly breaking. And it’s not covered under warranty. Yay… And they added this feature because the competition uses it.
Just curious as to what happens in Nikon land.
p.54 #10 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
mawz wrote:
Reportedly for an issue that's also showed up on some Z9's as per Thom Hogan. Likely because of a shared part where some are out of spec.
We discussed this at length on another forum with inputs from Canada and the UK. The consensus is this - yes, there were a large number of Z8 cameras potentially affected, however, if you can successfully change Z lenses on your Z8, you don't need to send it in immediately. You should send the camera in at some point to prevent potential future problems. My Z8 is in the recall group, but I can successfully change Z lenses, so I'll wait until the initial rush is over.
p.54 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
AZHeaven wrote:
What I would like to know is regarding not only the Z8 but other Nikon models, is shutter failures.
I’ve been lucky with my first Sony A7III and now A7IV. But the subject of shutter failure is once again raising its ugly head with the A7IV.
Sony uses a shutter down option for keeping dust off the sensor. But even Sony recommends not using it due to the shutter possibly breaking. And it’s not covered under warranty. Yay… And they added this feature because the competition uses it.
Just curious as to what happens in Nikon land.
Nikon Z8 and Z9 have electronic shutters and no mechanical shutter. It that electronic shutter fails it's probably toast for the camera.
p.54 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
AZHeaven wrote:
What I would like to know is regarding not only the Z8 but other Nikon models, is shutter failures.
I’ve been lucky with my first Sony A7III and now A7IV. But the subject of shutter failure is once again raising its ugly head with the A7IV.
Sony uses a shutter down option for keeping dust off the sensor. But even Sony recommends not using it due to the shutter possibly breaking. And it’s not covered under warranty. Yay… And they added this feature because the competition uses it.
Just curious as to what happens in Nikon land.
One great feature of the Z8 and Z9 is a protective cover (not a shutter) that can drop down in front of the sensor when you power the camera off. It's designed to protect the sensor and minimize dust/debris when changing lenses. You have the option to utilize it or not in the menu. Most will use it.
p.54 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
AZHeaven wrote:
What I would like to know is regarding not only the Z8 but other Nikon models, is shutter failures.
I’ve been lucky with my first Sony A7III and now A7IV. But the subject of shutter failure is once again raising its ugly head with the A7IV.
Sony uses a shutter down option for keeping dust off the sensor. But even Sony recommends not using it due to the shutter possibly breaking. And it’s not covered under warranty. Yay… And they added this feature because the competition uses it.
Just curious as to what happens in Nikon land.
Using the shutter down mode when the camera is off is a common feature. It is nothing new either. Sony has been using it for a number of years now, also Canon and others. Leica has had this feature on its digital M cameras from the first one, way back in the early 2000s. Think about it, film cameras have pretty much always had it. There have been no reports of frequent failures because of this feature over many years. It sure does help keep the dust spots down.
Sony gives the caution that one must be careful when changing lenses and such not to touch, or accidently bump this protective shutter. It can break, and of course this kind of user error would not be covered under warrantee. Although not using this shutter at image making speed so that it can probably be built a bit tougher, Nikon gave the same cautions at both Z9 and Z8 presentations I attended. Not sure what the manual says about it.
In any case shutter failure has not been a problem in the A7RIV camera (or any Sony Camera) over many years of use. I don't worry about it on my cameras (Sony and Leica). Every A1 shooter I know uses electronic shutter almost exclusively when shooting, and uses the optional shutter down when camera is off mode. This is functionally identical to the way the Z8/9 work. It is nothing new except in Nikon cameras, where it is mis-characterized as an innovation for marketing purposes.
p.54 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
The protective so called "shutter" on the Z8/Z9's is quite a different animal then those on the Canon and Sony's. The latter being quite delicate by comparison and not instantaneous to operate. Kudos to Nikon for implementation of how they've done it.
p.54 #16 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
dcisive wrote:
The protective so called "shutter" on the Z8/Z9's is quite a different animal then those on the Canon and Sony's. The latter being quite delicate by comparison and not instantaneous to operate. Kudos to Nikon for implementation of how they've done it.
The national Nikon technical rep will disagree with you on that. The Nikon shutter is not meaningfully tougher. If it subjected to the same touching that broke another company's shutter, it will also likely break according to him. Me, I trust what he repeatedly said. If you disagree you are welcome to get one of each camera and touch the shutters until one break to prove him wrong.
As far as speed goes, also meaningless differences. All will be closed by the time you turn the camera off, take the lens cap off the new lens, and remove the old lens. Since it won't break anything I just tested it on my A1 both on and off, the time was less that 1 second. Anything faster is meaningless to me.
I do think you correctly characterized the feature. Nikon did implement a broadly used feature in a well engineered, but reduced capability way. The biggest difference being that the Nikon implementation is not capable of the speed required to provide the benefits of shooting with a mechanical shutter in certain circumstances.
It is generally true that thee Z8/9 cameras are overall well designed and built, resulting in some excellent cameras. Welcome to the World of stacked sensor mirrorless photography. As far as I am concerned I will never buy a non stacked sensor AF camera in the future. They are that much better.
p.54 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
QuadPixel FF is right around the corner. That is but one of the groundbreaking features expected on the outrageous expensive R1. For those with fat bank accounts it will be in their bag no doubt.
p.54 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
AZHeaven wrote:
Sony uses a shutter down option for keeping dust off the sensor. But even Sony recommends not using it due to the shutter possibly breaking. And it’s not covered under warranty. Yay…
And yet it's rated for half a million actuations... if you change your lenses that often, the mounting flange will be worn out before the shutter is...
Jun 25, 2023 at 05:36 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.54 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
The national Nikon technical rep will disagree with you on that. The Nikon shutter is not meaningfully tougher. If it subjected to the same touching that broke another company's shutter, it will also likely break according to him. Me, I trust what he repeatedly said. If you disagree you are welcome to get one of each camera and touch the shutters until one break to prove him wrong.
As far as speed goes, also meaningless differences. All will be closed by the time you turn the camera off, take the lens cap off the new lens, and remove the old lens. Since it won't break anything I just tested it on my A1 both on and off, the time was less that 1 second. Anything faster is meaningless to me.
I do think you correctly characterized the feature. Nikon did implement a broadly used feature in a well engineered, but reduced capability way. The biggest difference being that the Nikon implementation is not capable of the speed required to provide the benefits of shooting with a mechanical shutter in certain circumstances.
It is generally true that thee Z8/9 cameras are overall well designed and built, resulting in some excellent cameras. Welcome to the World of stacked sensor mirrorless photography. As far as I am concerned I will never buy a non stacked sensor AF camera in the future. They are that much better....Show more →
There was a lot of trumpeting about the Z9/Z8 not having mechanical shutter and therefor being much more robust etc.. Still there seem to be a lot of reports of other mechanical issues and now a recall of virtually all the Z8's for mechanical problems.
Certainly raises eyebrows when there are claims about being more robust and then you have a mass recall.
So at the end of the day it seems they are not any better designed or built than any other camera.
