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Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!

  
 
DanielJStein
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p.21 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


NissanPatrol wrote:
The faster the glass the better



That can also depend too. Sometimes faster glass leads to worse star shapes and things like coma, astigmatism, and loCA start to show up. The best tool specifically for astrophotography is a star tracker. You can increase exposure time and therefore increase your signal to noise ratio, while also stopping down your lens a hair to improve optical quality.



May 20, 2023 at 11:28 AM
1bwana1
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p.21 #2 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


RoamingScott wrote:
Z8/Z9 have 4 "banks" which are like U1-U3, so even MORE options for you.


I used banks a lot in my Nikon cameras it is a great feature. The one cautional difference between Banks and U1-U3 is the difference in persistence. U1-U3 will maintain their original settings each time they are used. Banks will store any changes made while shooting with them active. Keep this in mind and you will have little trouble with either.

I do love Recall Settings Hold buttons. A very useful feature for so many circumstances. They have gotten me images I never would have gotten without them.



May 20, 2023 at 12:02 PM
1bwana1
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p.21 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


NikonClio64 wrote:
Back to the Z8... Steve Perry has just released his interim assessment that answers several questions

11 min: "this is probably the best bang for the buck wildlife and nature camera that you can buy right now..."



As I have said I trust and rely on Steve Perry for many balanced insights. In this case once again I agree 100% with his assessment on the Z8. In fact, I don't think at the Z8 pricing any other camera is even close.

The only modification I can see is what are the lens requirements for your particular genre of wildlife/nature photography. In some cases things could get closer in total system costs. But that would be the exception, not the norm.



May 20, 2023 at 12:09 PM
RoamingScott
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p.21 #4 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


1bwana1 wrote:
I used banks a lot in my Nikon cameras it is a great feature. The one cautional difference between Banks and U1-U3 is the difference in persistence. U1-U3 will maintain their original settings each time they are used. Banks will store any changes made while shooting with them active. Keep this in mind and you will have little trouble with either.

I do love Recall Settings Hold buttons. A very useful feature for so many circumstances. They have gotten me images I never would have gotten without them.


I wish Nikon would simply add an option to reset banks to their "custom defaults" on power cycle. This would provide the best of both use cases.



May 20, 2023 at 12:12 PM
NissanPatrol
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p.21 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


DanielJStein wrote:
That can also depend too. Sometimes faster glass leads to worse star shapes and things like coma, astigmatism, and loCA start to show up. The best tool specifically for astrophotography is a star tracker. You can increase exposure time and therefore increase your signal to noise ratio, while also stopping down your lens a hair to improve optical quality.


I don't have a camera tracker but I piggyback the camera on equatorial SCT

Never seen or heard anyone prefers slower glass to fast glass regardless of tracked or not tracked,




May 20, 2023 at 12:12 PM
wjmeyer
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p.21 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


RoamingScott wrote:
Z8/Z9 have 4 "banks" which are like U1-U3, so even MORE options for you.


Well this just keeps getting better.



May 20, 2023 at 12:34 PM
1bwana1
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p.21 #7 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


wjmeyer wrote:
Well this just keeps getting better.


Yep, this is very powerful stuff. Now if they would implement "Named Setup Files", the permutations and options become almost unlimited. Although admittedly this feature is mostly of value to those who shoot a broad collection of photographic genres, or want to share setups between cameras, and/or photographers.



May 20, 2023 at 12:58 PM
sjms
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p.21 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


I don't know I'd prefer to simply build my setups on a "device" and load them in as needed.


May 20, 2023 at 01:09 PM
agrumpyoldsod
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p.21 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


Jesse Evans wrote:
I guess I’ll have to quit my job because I don’t know what I’m doing 😄
I did not say the field of AI is limited to deep learning, and I am uncertain why pasting the definition of the FIELD of artificial intelligence would have anything to do with what we are talking about. I used AI in the context of the systems that you use in, e.g. smartphones and cameras.
Let me repeat: nearly every AI system that you use or interact with was trained using deep learning. I did not say the field of AI is limited to
...Show more

The statement "Regardless, your assertion that Canon and Nikon are not using deep learning are categorically incorrect." Is CORRECT -- no camera body on the market today uses true AI in it.
If they did then these cameras would learn and they do not. A camera does not learn user preferences nor listen to feedback from the user on how it is doing.
What the manufacturers do is use Deep Learning tools to develop the algorithms and data that they put into the firmware in the cameras. It is that simple.

Listen to CO on the Camera Store Live Stream for the Z8 launch if you need someone from a manufacturer to say this.

There is ZERO point being hostile - just get over it.

The same is true for most other consumer products that are called AI -- where the edges blur is when Adobe instals solutions in to their products like PS that they call Cloud Based AI solutions , which for example can change a face to add a smile and so much more. This is just marketing puffery -- These are really just further examples of deep learning be used to build algorithms and process vast databases of images - no doubt frequently updated - but since they collect no feedback from users there is no cycle of learning so NOT true AI either..

I suggest you start a thread on AI and leave this thread to the Z8 -- which does not use AI either.



May 20, 2023 at 01:14 PM
wjmeyer
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p.21 #10 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


1bwana1 wrote:
I used banks a lot in my Nikon cameras it is a great feature. The one cautional difference between Banks and U1-U3 is the difference in persistence. U1-U3 will maintain their original settings each time they are used. Banks will store any changes made while shooting with them active. Keep this in mind and you will have little trouble with either.

I do love Recall Settings Hold buttons. A very useful feature for so many circumstances. They have gotten me images I never would have gotten without them.


That's what I was thinking, stored banks and recall settings (instant change) feature would be really useful. Good to know about the limitation with the settings not reverting to original if you change while using. I was just out this morning photographing my daughter for her graduation images and a massive blue heron came right by us just over some water, I tried to change from people mode that I was in and completely forgot I had U2 setup for animals which was just a twist away from U3 (people) on my Z6, in people mode the Z6 AF struggles with other subjects. Recall Settings Hold could be really handy for those types of situations



May 20, 2023 at 01:40 PM
 


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DanielJStein
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p.21 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!




NissanPatrol wrote:
Never seen or heard anyone prefers slower glass to fast glass regardless of tracked or not tracked,



Faster glass is usually bigger and heavier, making it harder to hike with. If you already have a tracker, 1.2 lenses are not necessary. Stopping down creates sharper stars and more defined nebulae as well.



May 20, 2023 at 01:51 PM
dcisive
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p.21 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


I noticed that the specs for a Z9 allow for a minimum light focus capability at -8.5ev. The new Z8 is quoting -9ev. Does that mean the Z8 eclipsed the Z9 in that low light autofocus sensitivity realm or is it not even worth discussing? Hard to believe they bumped the performance of the Z8 in any way over the flagship. Just wondering.


May 20, 2023 at 04:29 PM
RoamingScott
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p.21 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


Yes. They improved both regular and starlight modes by .5 beyond the Z9. Entirely possible it’s software based.

dcisive wrote:
I noticed that the specs for a Z9 allow for a minimum light focus capability at -8.5ev. The new Z8 is quoting -9ev. Does that mean the Z8 eclipsed the Z9 in that low light autofocus sensitivity realm or is it not even worth discussing? Hard to believe they bumped the performance of the Z8 in any way over the flagship. Just wondering.




May 20, 2023 at 04:34 PM
snapsy
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p.21 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


snapsy wrote:
Started a thread on Dpreview regarding battery life and CIPA. Here's what I came up with:

The Nikon's Z8 specs for battery life are 330 shots w/EVF and energy saving mode off. This is based on CIPA's Battery Test Methodology, which takes a photo every 30 seconds, with the camera and display on between each photo, cycling camera power after every 10 shots. Since MILCs run their sensors and Live View continuously, this DSLR-era test amounts to a power-on endurance test because sensor reading and display-driving consume significant power.

Nikon has started quoting an additional battery life measurement, based on an internal
...Show more

I previously posted the following three battery measurements on my Z6:

1. Camera idle in shooting mode, EVF off, LCD off, top LCD on, airplane mode, Nikon 70-200 f/4G lens on FTZ, Sony 64GB XQD 400MB/s card: 3 hours 31 minutes power-on time

2. Same as #1 but with EVF on (18% grey target TTL): 2 hours 32 minutes power-on time

3. Same as #1 but with intervalometer taking raw photo every 5 seconds (12 per minute), MF mode, aperture locked to wide-open: 2,264 photos, 3 hours 8 minutes power-on time

I have a new measurement to add: Same as #1 but camera in menu mode instead of shooting mode. This ran for 6 hours 31 minutes. To test this I set the display to EVF only, the c3 dle time for menus to 10 minutes (maximum), entered the menu, then pressed a button every 9 minutes to prevent the camera from entering power-off standby. I pressed my eye to the EVF every so often to monitor when the camera exhausted the battery; the EVF off otherwise.

In menu mode the camera is presumed to stop reading the sensor continuously, since it no longer displays metering on the top panel while in a menu. Also, if IBIS was on the camera locks IBIS when switching from shooting -> menu mode (audible click), a further indication the camera transitions to a sensor-idle state when entering a menu. Provided this assumption is true we can isolate the power draw of reading the sensor continuously and the Expeed power to process that feed (plus any small additional power required while idle in shooting mode, including metering calcs). Power-on time drops from 6:31 (menu mode) to 3:31 (shooting mode), which means the camera consumes 46% more power to read the sensor continuously while idle.

It's interesting to step back and compare these Z6 values to the closest equivalent DSLR, the D750. Using the same EN-EL15 7V 1900mAh battery, the D750's CIPA rating is 1,230 shots, which translates to a runtime of 10:15. The Z's longest runtime is 6:31 (full idle in menu).

Some notes:

* It's presumed that playback mode would yield the same idle times as menu mode, since both involve the camera idle with sensor reads stopped (IBIS lock click when entering playback mode, same as when entering menu mode)

* The camera doesn't stop sensor reads during image review mode - power draw is the same as idle shooting mode and no IBIS locking click. Note you can transition from image review to playback mode by scrolling to the next/previous photo before the image review ends.

* I checked if turning off the top LCD would encourage the camera to stop its continuous sensor reads while idle in shooting mode, since with the EVF/LCD already off and now the top panel off (no exposure reading display) the camera has no reason to be reading the sensor continuously. It still does however.

Based on these observations Nikon could measurably improve shooting-mode runtime battery life by turning off sensor reads whenever the camera is configured for EVF only and EVF eye's sensor shows no use (EVF off). The only exceptions would be background use, like HDMI. This would bridge some of the gap to a DSLR's runtime.

You could manually achieve the same result by always entering menu or playback mode in idle time between shots, although that would grow tedious. Another alternative is to use an aggressive power-off standby value, but that incurs a moderate wakeup delay whenever you want to return to shooting.



May 20, 2023 at 04:55 PM
3catsinky
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p.21 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


I have to ask, as I am intrigued by this camera...for photography related work, What kind of AF comparison can I make between the Z8, and my 6yo Sony A9??


May 20, 2023 at 05:26 PM
1bwana1
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p.21 #16 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


sjms wrote:
I don't know I'd prefer to simply build my setups on a "device" and load them in as needed.


Which is exactly what named setups allow you to do.



May 20, 2023 at 07:15 PM
1bwana1
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p.21 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


snapsy wrote:
I previously posted the following three battery measurements on my Z6:

1. Camera idle in shooting mode, EVF off, LCD off, top LCD on, airplane mode, Nikon 70-200 f/4G lens on FTZ, Sony 64GB XQD 400MB/s card: 3 hours 31 minutes power-on time

2. Same as #1 but with EVF on (18% grey target TTL): 2 hours 32 minutes power-on time

3. Same as #1 but with intervalometer taking raw photo every 5 seconds (12 per minute), MF mode, aperture locked to wide-open: 2,264 photos, 3 hours 8 minutes power-on time

I have a new measurement to add: Same as #1 but camera in
...Show more

Here are some likely reliable real World battery test results for the Z8. They should help you plan your Z8 usage. Don't let the video's headline throw you off. The review is very positive on the Z8.






May 20, 2023 at 07:22 PM
NissanPatrol
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p.21 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


DanielJStein wrote:
That can also depend too. Sometimes faster glass leads to worse star shapes and things like coma, astigmatism, and loCA start to show up. The best tool specifically for astrophotography is a star tracker. You can increase exposure time and therefore increase your signal to noise ratio, while also stopping down your lens a hair to improve optical quality.



You cant teach old dog new tricks

I still use old methods. My SCT that I bought in 1986

Thank you



May 21, 2023 at 04:44 AM
duncang
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p.21 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


osv2 wrote:
we aren't trying to imply that, but some nikon owners are falsely claiming it's a fact, while trying to troll you in the process, lol:


the thread went wrong before that, with this failed claim by a nikon owner:

these cameras use ANI, which as i already proved is a form of a.i.

see above.

no, deep learning is done with pc's not supercomputers, leveraging high-powered video cards: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/deep-learning-ai/solutions/workstation/


I think we're all being a little pedantic - I could point out to you that most of IBM's early AI work, including their deep learning attempts were done on their 'super computers'. Of course now dedicated hardware, such as graphics cards, is more efficient that traditional CPU's - but you could argue these are todays super computers.

In any event - if a new action/video camera doesn't have a dedicated neural engine I wouldn't recommend buying it. Those that do will substantially out perform those that don't and manufacturers will likely put their efforts in to firmware updates to those that are not hardware constrained.



May 21, 2023 at 06:00 AM
arbitrage
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p.21 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!


1bwana1 wrote:
Here are some likely reliable real World battery test results for the Z8. They should help you plan your Z8 usage. Don't let the video's headline throw you off. The review is very positive on the Z8.





Attached is a screenshot from Steve's video.
I don't think battery life is a big deal. Carrying a couple extra EN-EL15s along and swapping them when you have a moment as battery gets low is not too big of a deal.
Also I'm sure different settings on the different cameras can change these results significantly.







May 21, 2023 at 06:54 AM
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