p.17 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
tobycat2 wrote:
I thought he only shot Fuji, but in the video saw he also owned the D700. Cool! He seemed to like the Z8. Would've liked a longer video, but it wasn't bad.
I've been following him for a while, and he was more focused on Fuji gear back then.
He acquired d700 somehow, that lead him into Nikon world, if I'm not mistaking.
He seems to be very nice guy, down to the earth, but his images speak for himself.
p.17 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
lukemeup wrote:
The Z8 thread in the Sony sub-forum generated more responses that this thread here & some of the acid tripping there is pretty entertaining to read. Nikon has really struck a nerve, so they must be doing something right.
LoL, what's wrong with today's world?
Shouldn't they be happy with their choice, happily using it capturing some lovely photos.
p.17 #4 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
tobycat2 wrote:
I thought he only shot Fuji, but in the video saw he also owned the D700. Cool! He seemed to like the Z8. Would've liked a longer video, but it wasn't bad.
He actually shoots Z6's for his work ... Fuji for family stuff
p.17 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
lukemeup wrote:
The Z8 thread in the Sony sub-forum generated more responses that this thread here & some of the acid tripping there is pretty entertaining to read. Nikon has really struck a nerve, so they must be doing something right.
I think you are right on the money. There are even some well known members in that thread claiming night & day differences in areas where razor-thin margins exist, and using other extreme hyperbole that made me lose a lot of respect for what they have to say. It was actually quite surprising as they hadn't revealed that level of ignorance in the past, that I have seen anyway.
What's always interesting to me is that instead of actually discussing the merits of the camera, how it might be a good thing for the industry as a whole, how unique features might be leveraged, etc. they go straight to the spec sheets, scrambling to find areas where their camera of choice might still hold an edge using whatever mental gymnastics necessary along the way. Almost as if it's some sort of competition that nobody else knows about. Some folks even made bullet point lists detailing their confirmation biases for all to see. It's just so strange to me because unless Sony is signing their paychecks, that kind of blind loyalty to the brand (or any brand for that matter) is something I'll never be able to wrap my head around. I often wonder when one is that desperate to validate a purchase decision, maybe deep down they feel they made the wrong choice. We all like to feel good about our decisions, myself included, but my god - some people in that that thread, you'd think their lives depended on it.
p.17 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
CanadaMark wrote:
I think you are right on the money.
What's always interesting to me is that instead of actually discussing the merits of the camera, how it might be a good thing for the industry as a whole, how unique features might be leveraged, etc. they go straight to the spec sheets, scrambling to find areas where their camera of choice might still hold an edge using whatever mental gymnastics necessary along the way. Almost as if it's some sort of competition that nobody else knows about. Some folks even made bullet point lists detailing their confirmation biases for all to see. It's just so strange to me because unless Sony is signing their paychecks, that kind of blind loyalty to the brand (or any brand for that matter) is something I'll never be able to wrap my head around. I often wonder when one is that desperate to validate a purchase decision, maybe deep down they feel they made the wrong choice. We all like to feel good about our decisions, myself included, but my god - some people in that that thread, you'd think their lives depended on it....Show more →
I'm right there with you Mark and I try not to get too caught up in the "mine is better than yours arguments". Have I bought into systems that I later regretted? Yes I have, but I learned to live with the deficiencies and if I felt I couldn't (live with them) I would sell it. Similar to how I might try out a new lens, when I first bought the Nikon 105mm f/1.4 I was disappointed with how slow AF was, but I realize this was likely not going to be my go to sports lens in low light but instead was going to be used for portraiture where my subjects aren't buzzing around everywhere and found I was happier with the AF than I thought I'd be. Do I look up information on Canon and Sony when they release a new product, sure, but mostly out of just curiosity. I have come to the conclusion that any name brand system today is going to offer features that will allow me to capture amazing images but I have to understand the system, know its limitations and use the features to my best advantage. I shot DSLR since 2004 and SLR for years before that, it was a system I understood but when I decided to go mirrorless it was almost as if I had to relearn the menu and system functionality especially with AF. Early days of SLR I'd use center or edge focus point and recompose the shot, then Nikon introduced 3D focus tracking and it proved to be a huge advantage but I tried to use my Z6 the same way and was frustrated with the results, I tried eye focus but was not happy either so I went back to focus and recompose, but then firmware 3.0 came out and I decided to re-learn the AF system and have been amazed ever since at how capable the Z6 is for most of what I shoot.
I guess my point with all this is to say, every system is capable and maybe spending more time to learn the system would benefit more photographers rather than jumping ship once they hear brand X has a "better" AF system or brand Z has higher megapixels, etc. That's not to say there are some features that brand "XYZ" may actually have that would benefit some photographers in certain situations but is it really worth the investment in another system? I've made that decision a couple times throughout my career and it's "cost" me, but I'm also very happy where I ended up (with Nikon) and don't see a need to change anytime soon. I tried out Olympus/OM Systems last year and was very impressed with the OM-1 and Zuiko lenses, but I do not think I would ever "switch" to OM but instead I would "include" MFT due to smaller/lighter which definitely has some advantages at times, but shooting FF Nikon, Canon and Sony seems rather redundant these days, choose one, learn it, be happy and no need to bash others for using something different.
May 18, 2023 at 05:30 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.17 #7 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
JustShootMe wrote:
There is no AI in cameras (Yet) AI requires input for the camera to learn , unless the camera is connected to the web and constantly sharing data with the manufacturer there really is no AI , it's just marketing BS. Can you add additional procs to help execute algorithms faster, sure .. but that's not AI.
AI does not require the camera to learn - that is your interpretation of what AI means. In the context of this discussion the "learning" takes place on computers and the resulting AI model gets installed in the camera via a firmware update - and for more complex models an additional hardware update in the form of a neural engine chip may also be required.
May 18, 2023 at 05:33 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.17 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Chris Dees wrote:
It's hard to stop with acid pissing isn't it?
It's just reality - I have an A1 and and A9 and like the Z9/Z8 they too are a generation behind in the hardware department so they will not get any material improvements to their subject detection and autofocus capabilities.
p.17 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
AI does not require the camera to learn - that is your interpretation of what AI means. In the context of this discussion the "learning" takes place on computers and the resulting AI model gets installed in the camera via a firmware update - and for more complex models an additional hardware update in the form of a neural engine chip may also be required.
You are incorrect , there is no interpretation , it is either intelligent or not .. if it can not learn it is not.
p.17 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
NikonClio64 wrote:
The excellent autofocus of the Z9 (and Z8) relies on integrated EXPEED7 and stacked sensor, which has the 'neural engine hardware' to support Nikon's deep learning software.
Sure you can run the ML models on processor hardware, it's just slower and less efficient than running on dedicated hardware. Not much different than hardware based video encoders - which are orders of magnitude faster than software based encoders. The Sony A1 too has no dedicated neural engine but it is constrained in its ability to process more complex subject detection models such as those in the A7rv, so they are unlikely to arrive on the current A1 model in the form of a firmware upgrade, despite the hopes of many.
p.17 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I see confirmation bias and defensiveness in every brand forum, not just Sony. As someone who shot Canon for 20 years, Nikon mostly for another 20, and also some years of Sony, Pentax MF, Fuji MF, and Oly m43, I just don't resonate with single brand fanaticism. Every make of camera and lenses has specific good things to offer. It is about choosing what fits your needs and desires best at the time, and it's ok to change your mind and use different things over the years.
p.17 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
JustShootMe wrote:
You are incorrect , there is no interpretation , it is either intelligent or not .. if it can not learn it is not.
It is intelligent - it can identify a range of different subjects.
It can become more intelligent - via a firmware update.
You're nitpicking now anyway - no-one has ever suggested the camera's themselves will 'learn' new subjects based on the users usage.
The camera manufacturers are the ones doing the learning - training new machine learning models to detect more subject types - and then deploying these 'more intelligent' models to the camera's via a firmware upgrade.
p.17 #16 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote:
It is intelligent - it can identify a range of different subjects.
It can become more intelligent - via a firmware update.
You're nitpicking now anyway - no-one has ever suggested the camera's themselves will 'learn' new subjects based on the users usage.
The camera manufacturers are the ones doing the learning - training new machine learning models to detect more subject types - and then deploying these 'more intelligent' models to the camera's via a firmware upgrade.
Just for you I asked chatgpt , here’s the response
“If a machine does not learn or receive input, it would not typically be considered AI. Learning and input are fundamental aspects of AI systems. AI involves machines that can process and analyze data, learn from it, and adapt their behavior accordingly. Without the ability to learn or receive input, a machine would lack the essential components that define artificial intelligence. However, it's important to note that there are different degrees and types of AI, ranging from simple rule-based systems to advanced machine learning algorithms, each with varying levels of learning and input requirements.”
May 18, 2023 at 07:42 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.17 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
JustShootMe wrote:
You are incorrect , there is no interpretation , it is either intelligent or not .. if it can not learn it is not.
no, you are incorrect, it is a form of a.i.
"Artificial narrow intelligence (ANI) is crucial to voice assistants, such as Siri, Alexa, and Google Assistant. This category includes intelligent systems that have been designed or trained to carry out specific tasks or solve particular problems, without being explicitly designed to do so.
ANI might often be referred to as weak AI, as it doesn't possess general intelligence, but some examples of the power of narrow AI include the above voice assistants, and also image-recognition systems, technologies that respond to simple customer service requests, and tools that flag inappropriate content online." https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-is-ai-heres-everything-you-need-to-know-about-artificial-intelligence/
May 18, 2023 at 10:01 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.17 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
JustShootMe wrote:
Just for you I asked chatgpt , here’s the response
“If a machine does not learn or receive input, it would not typically be considered AI. Learning and input are fundamental aspects of AI systems. AI involves machines that can process and analyze data, learn from it, and adapt their behavior accordingly. Without the ability to learn or receive input, a machine would lack the essential components that define artificial intelligence. However, it's important to note that there are different degrees and types of AI, ranging from simple rule-based systems to advanced machine learning algorithms, each with varying levels of learning and input requirements.”...Show more →
Camera's are using AI or machine learning models for subject detection. That is just a fact. Time to move on.
p.17 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RoamingScott wrote:
I like how the basic tip of the video is "have good AF and precapture"
Ha. That’s perfect for Georgina. If you follow her, you know she’s no measurebator, though she’s certainly no Luddite, either. In the DSLR days, she’d tell you that she liked to lay on the shutter at every opportunity, no matter her settings. She got lots of happy accidents, but I don’t want to sell her short. She’s a fantastic photographer, as evidenced by all of her awards. I don’t know that her video was all that useful. Talking about high tech specs is probably not the best use of her talents.
May 18, 2023 at 10:08 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.17 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
sjms wrote:
you have my vote to cease and leave. i think you might be making people socially uncomfortable..
Learning new stuff often involves some sort of discomfort.
It was not so long ago that there were a lot of 'uncomfortable' DSLR users on these forums. For the most part they have now embraced the advantages mirrorless offer...
....I always ask "How Much"?