p.12 #1 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
George DeCamp wrote:
This was from my back yard late this afternoon. Light was not good, used ISO 10,000 to keep shutter up (1/2000). Note: Used a quick pass of Topaz DeNoise which I would do on all higher ISO images
All in all not too shabby for ISO 10000. Used a Z9, 500pf, x1.4TC hand held..
p.12 #2 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
A few photos from New Year's Eve shoot all done with the Z9
First two images were underexposed then pulled 1 stop to preserve some of the highlights.
Can see more from this series in the People Photography section.
p.12 #4 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
with the Z9 I'm trying to apply my settings to Live view, I'm in the "show effects of settings" or the "adjust for ease of viewing" and I'm not seeing a difference, I must be missing something??
p.12 #5 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Are people wanting stuff like this posted in this thread? Or would prefer it left to one of the other threads like the Information Repository thread? I can move it if so. This thread is Images and Discussion and will likely become the dominant Z9 thread going forward similar to the big 500PF thread that has images and discussion. Anyways, I can always move this post out of here if needed.
From what I gather in this video, when the camera has no other distractions around the intended subject like the bee eater it can track amazingly well. The bee eater situation is relatively easy due to no distractions and relatively small in the frame. However, it is also difficult due to the erratic flight behaviour. The photographer did well to stay with it during those abrupt changes in direction and the Z9 did well keeping locked on the bee eater (if we take the photographer at his word that all were actually sharp).
The other video with the egrets showed me a lot of flaws in the Z9 AF system when there are other things in the frame. Still, the subject is very small in the frame so this isn't an ideal situation. I'm starting to wonder after watching this video and a couple others if 3D is best avoided unless with very clean surroundings. It looks pretty bad in this video at least compared to other cameras I've used. The fact that 3D is forced to be Tracking Sensitivity 3 all the time may be its biggest issue??
p.12 #6 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
First video is a lot better than the second video. Second video makes me think I'll still be in dynamic AF a bit (which is fine). Also the person in the second video should knocked it down a few -EV since the Egret is just straight blown out. arbitrage wrote:
Are people wanting stuff like this posted in this thread? Or would prefer it left to one of the other threads like the Information Repository thread? I can move it if so. This thread is Images and Discussion and will likely become the dominant Z9 thread going forward similar to the big 500PF thread that has images and discussion. Anyways, I can always move this post out of here if needed.
From what I gather in this video, when the camera has no other distractions around the intended subject like the bee eater it can track amazingly well. The bee eater situation is relatively easy due to no distractions and relatively small in the frame. However, it is also difficult due to the erratic flight behaviour. The photographer did well to stay with it during those abrupt changes in direction and the Z9 did well keeping locked on the bee eater (if we take the photographer at his word that all were actually sharp).
The other video with the egrets showed me a lot of flaws in the Z9 AF system when there are other things in the frame. Still, the subject is very small in the frame so this isn't an ideal situation. I'm starting to wonder after watching this video and a couple others if 3D is best avoided unless with very clean surroundings. It looks pretty bad in this video at least compared to other cameras I've used. The fact that 3D is forced to be Tracking Sensitivity 3 all the time may be its biggest issue??
p.12 #7 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
thanks a lot for the detail used on how to make the best of the z9 autofocus. I think it might be a good idea to do a thread on how to optimize z9 autofocus depending of different scenarios. We could name the thread How to optimize autofocus or something similar. In this thread we could share our own experience and what work best in different scenarios.
Would you participate in this thread, arbitrage could also contribute. He is also is an experience bif shooter.
So i was also trying to photograph Black and Brahminy kites the last couple of days and i shoot from my apartment balcony and the background is full of trees and a lot of vertical and horizontal lines, harsh reflections etc. Generally a tough test for any AF system. I noticed something similar when using 3D tracking, i.e. the camera instantly picks the background and its quite hard to acquire focus or even when it acquires the initial focus, it quickly gets distracted and the box goes all over the place. But guess what, try wide area-L and it works like a charm and i have never had such a success rate shooting in busy backgrounds with any other DSLRs i have used (D500/850/D4).
Wide area-L is my most used and favorite AF area mode now for incoming or diving birds but what i figured is, with brahminy kites which are similar to bald eagles, they have white heads and yellow eyes so the camera easily tracks the eyes and track them tenaciously whereas with black kites that are generally very dull brown colored birds with dark eyes, it is difficult for the eye af to work so most of the time, even when the bird fills the frame, the camera was trying to focus somewhere near the head/ eyes which is pretty good. Now on the flip side, the focus is sharp starting from the bird's eyes to all the way back to the tail but there are some frames where the beak is a bit soft. What i did today was to try the same wide area L mode with a small tweak. I have programmed my lens fn button with an RSF override to turn off subject detection. When a bird approaches, i track the bird using wide area-L with subject on and the moment the bird fills the frame , i press the lens-fn button to temporarily disable subject detection. When i do this, the wide area L seems to work based on close subject priority (just like the group AF), bingo now the beak and the eyes are in focus. This approach works best for me when i am shooting birds against a busy background.
Nikon's update that will allow customizing the box sizes will be a major update in my opinion for these type of use cases.
thanks a lot for thid detail used on how to make the best of the z9 autofocus. I think it might be a good idea to do a thread on how to optimize z9 autofocus depending of different scenarios. We could name the thread How to optimize autofocus or something similar. In this thread we could share our own experience and what work best in different scenarios.
Would you participate in this thread, arbitrage could also contribute. He is also an experice bif shooter....Show more →
p.12 #9 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Really nice set, great work!!!
mholdef wrote:
A few photos from New Year's Eve shoot all done with the Z9
First two images were underexposed then pulled 1 stop to preserve some of the highlights.
Can see more from this series in the People Photography section.
p.12 #10 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
arbitrage wrote:
Are people wanting stuff like this posted in this thread? Or would prefer it left to one of the other threads like the Information Repository thread? I can move it if so. This thread is Images and Discussion and will likely become the dominant Z9 thread going forward similar to the big 500PF thread that has images and discussion. Anyways, I can always move this post out of here if needed.
From what I gather in this video, when the camera has no other distractions around the intended subject like the bee eater it can track amazingly well. The bee eater situation is relatively easy due to no distractions and relatively small in the frame. However, it is also difficult due to the erratic flight behaviour. The photographer did well to stay with it during those abrupt changes in direction and the Z9 did well keeping locked on the bee eater (if we take the photographer at his word that all were actually sharp).
The other video with the egrets showed me a lot of flaws in the Z9 AF system when there are other things in the frame. Still, the subject is very small in the frame so this isn't an ideal situation. I'm starting to wonder after watching this video and a couple others if 3D is best avoided unless with very clean surroundings. It looks pretty bad in this video at least compared to other cameras I've used. The fact that 3D is forced to be Tracking Sensitivity 3 all the time may be its biggest issue??
My suggestion is to also post a copy of this over in the repository.
imo... Regarding bird-tracking, you have an in-depth knowledge of what works and does not (I would guess..more than anyone here).
A couple of years ago, you suggested I try Auto AF for tracking birds. It worked and I never looked back.
I would rate the swallow and then pigeon (2nd place... unless I am forgetting some species) as the most difficult to follow.
One basin I do my loon work on is loaded with swallows. I am amazed that they are able to make their living snagging insects in flight.
Has anyone here noticed that not all basins support swallows... and why ? There's a reason.
Anyway, when I'm doing loon work, I occasionally become tempted to "have a go" at the swallows. It's most often a downhill operation for me. I have difficulty just acquiring a swallow. Keeping an AF box on it is nearly impossible (for me). Fortunately, photographing swallows does not excite me.
For me, it comes back to Auto AF. Several have said that the Z9 is a combination of the D6 and D850. I do not know, but the Z9 manual looks a lot like the D850's.
I've made my AF decision. When my Z9 shows up, I'll opt for Auto AF mode. Then, I think I will add bird eyes or animal eyes... or whatever that extra option is for tracking. I know, you are right.... there is more to it than just that. But I must start somewhere.
It's pigeons for me ! . There are no swallows up here now, because there are no insects.
I plan on doing my own Z9 testing on pigeons.
Give me your opinion if you disagree Geoff: Regardless of make/model, no AF modes/systems are foolproof, or even have a high keeper rate. Now, I'm not into splitting hairs on the AF thing. You may be and everyone is different for sure.
Nikon promos overstated the efficiency of Z9 AF. But that's marketing with any brand.
Still, I know that I will be happy with the Z9 for a long time. Next year, I may sell it. Who knows?
It's not all about having the fastest and most accurate AF with me. The Z9 has several other features that excite me. In fact, it is full of them.... I hope
p.12 #14 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Absolutely, thats the most important reason i am part of this forum. Z9's AF is amazing but what's extremely important is that i notice there are finer differences in the way the AF modes operate in specific scenarios. For the most demanding cases, i use a combination of 2 AF modes that has worked flawlessly so far. I have been using the Auto Area mode for the last couple of sessions and found it to be amazing. It is better than 3D tracking for unpredictable subjects like swallows/ diving terns etc. The problem however is to get an initial lock-at times so what i figured was to again assist the AF using wide area L when it hunts or is unable to find an initial AF lock and then switch to auto area and it worked great.
rick2906 wrote:
thanks a lot for the detail used on how to make the best of the z9 autofocus. I think it might be a good idea to do a thread on how to optimize z9 autofocus depending of different scenarios. We could name the thread How to optimize autofocus or something similar. In this thread we could share our own experience and what work best in different scenarios.
Would you participate in this thread, arbitrage could also contribute. He is also is an experience bif shooter.
p.12 #15 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Here are few images from this morning. It was an overcast day and yet the Z9 could track very well. All these were shot with the 500 F4E with 1.4TC attached at 700mm. I am unable to tell if there is a drop in AF speed due to adding the TC. ISOs range from 1600 to 3200.
p.12 #16 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
gannis wrote:
Here are few images from this morning. It was an overcast day and yet the Z9 could track very well. All these were shot with the 500 F4E with 1.4TC attached at 700mm. I am unable to tell if there is a drop in AF speed due to adding the TC. ISOs range from 1600 to 3200.
If you could copy paste the information you share about the area large , subject detection off with rfs, I made a thread for z9 autofocus optimization. I thought it was well explain and pertinent. Thank you
p.12 #18 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
GANNIS: You posted: "Absolutely, thats the most important reason i am part of this forum. Z9's AF is amazing but what's extremely important is that i notice there are finer differences in the way the AF modes operate in specific scenarios. For the most demanding cases, i use a combination of 2 AF modes that has worked flawlessly so far. I have been using the Auto Area mode for the last couple of sessions and found it to be amazing. It is better than 3D tracking for unpredictable subjects like swallows/ diving terns etc. The problem however is to get an initial lock-at times so what i figured was to again assist the AF using wide area L when it hunts or is unable to find an initial AF lock and then switch to auto area and it worked great."
Interesting
Are saying that there is a button that we can customize to, that will make AutoAF reacquire?
p.12 #20 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
arbitrage wrote:
Are people wanting stuff like this posted in this thread? Or would prefer it left to one of the other threads like the Information Repository thread? I can move it if so. This thread is Images and Discussion and will likely become the dominant Z9 thread going forward similar to the big 500PF thread that has images and discussion. Anyways, I can always move this post out of here if needed.
From what I gather in this video, when the camera has no other distractions around the intended subject like the bee eater it can track amazingly well. The bee eater situation is relatively easy due to no distractions and relatively small in the frame. However, it is also difficult due to the erratic flight behaviour. The photographer did well to stay with it during those abrupt changes in direction and the Z9 did well keeping locked on the bee eater (if we take the photographer at his word that all were actually sharp).
The other video with the egrets showed me a lot of flaws in the Z9 AF system when there are other things in the frame. Still, the subject is very small in the frame so this isn't an ideal situation. I'm starting to wonder after watching this video and a couple others if 3D is best avoided unless with very clean surroundings. It looks pretty bad in this video at least compared to other cameras I've used. The fact that 3D is forced to be Tracking Sensitivity 3 all the time may be its biggest issue??
The difference between egret and bee eater is quite significant. Interestingly enough, before I went out to shoot black kites the other day, my Nikon dealer told me to use auto area with animal eye tracking and mentioned that Nikon is fixing something in 3D and animal tracking and that firmware shoudl be coming out soon (he said to expect 4-5 firmwares in the next few months). I did try 3D tracking with black kites and found that I can lose the bird easier than in auto area AF either to the background or when another bird cut in front. However, in auto area AF, once the bird is tracked, it rarely ever lost the bird.
This is a bit embarassing as it clearly shown that Z9 is more capable than my ability unfortunately
But here it is. I was tracking black kite landing on a stump. The whole sequence was 40+ shots at 10 fps and all were in focus. There were about 10 shots as the bird approached and landed on the stump here.
Z9 did not lose the black kite that I tracked eventhough it was blocked by another kite perching in front for about 5-6 frames.
Now, only if I could maintain composition of the frames
Another interesting bits, my Nikon dealer mentioned that right now Z9 recognized about 150 different birds. They will add 200 more soon. However, supposedly R5 library contains about 500 different types. However deep learning process is helpful in some scenario. As I mentioned when I shot spotted owlet, initially Z9 only picked up the body when the eyes were closed and it took a few minutes before it started to pick up the head. Same thing as pond heron. I hope Z9 will get better and better with more challenging subject.
. There are no swallows up here now, because there are no insects. 
