p.12 #3 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
1bwana1 wrote:
Keep in mind that neither mirrorless nor shutterless shooting is new or unique. They are just new to Nikon.
The Z9 is the new heavy weight leader in the mirrorless market if mass appeals to you.
Why are you involved in this thread? You don’t want a Z9. Nobody cares. Man, when Sony comes out with a new body I don’t run over to the Sony forum and feel the need to tell people why I don’t like it or compare it to some other brand. That is the definition of a troll. It is pathetic, attention seeking behavior, and it is really getting old. Get on with YOUR photography and leave us Nikon shooters to enjoy this new camera.
p.12 #4 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
Why are you involved in this thread? You don’t want a Z9. Nobody cares. Man, when Sony comes out with a new body I don’t run over to the Sony forum and feel the need to tell people why I don’t like it or compare it to some other brand. That is the definition of a troll. It is pathetic, attention seeking behavior, and it is really getting old. Get on with YOUR photography and leave us Nikon shooters to enjoy this new camera.
I am interested in the differences. I have not assigned, nor made claims of, superiority on either side of the differences. I have and do shoot Nikon. My photography hobby does include an interest in gear. I posted my experience on weight and size in response to another post on the subject. I didn't say lighter was better. I just said that the difference is real, not insignificant. Others said similar things.
It is my hope that everyone enjoys their new camera. I think the Z9 promises to be a fantastic camera.
What is pathetic is being over sensitive to discussions based on truth. What do you find in my discussion on size to be untrue? What in my discussion is criticism? I have acknowledged that many will see the increased size as an advantage.
Do you disagree that shutterless shooting and mirrorless is not new? I am a firm believer in both as improvements to camera technology. How is that criticism or negativity?
p.12 #5 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
1bwana1 wrote:
I am interested in the differences. I have not assigned, nor made claims of, superiority on either side of the differences. I have and do shoot Nikon. My photography hobby does include an interest in gear. I posted my experience on weight and size in response to another post on the subject. I didn't say lighter was better. I just said that the difference is real, not insignificant. Others said similar things.
It is my hope that everyone enjoys their new camera. I think the Z9 promises to be a fantastic camera.
What is pathetic is being over sensitive to discussions based on truth. What do you find in my discussion on size to be untrue? What in my discussion is criticism? I have acknowledged that many will see the increased size as an advantage.
Do you disagree that shutterless shooting and mirrorless is not new? I am a firm believer in both as improvements to camera technology. How is that criticism or negativity?
It not just me. You have a reputation for annoying brand comparisons. And for stating the obvious. It adds nothing. What wonderful contribution is made by stating the Z9 is heavier and bigger than the a1? Everyone knows this. It is in the specs. It is a non-issue for the people interested in the camera. And you don’t shoot Nikon.
Why don’t you look at your posts from other folks’ perspectives. You sound like a troll. Sorry, but it is just true. Maybe you don’t know it, maybe you do and don’t care. I don’t know.
I don’t make a habit of calling people out. But this is really getting old.
p.12 #7 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
1bwana1 wrote:
Like I said, I was participating in a discussion on that subject started by another poster.
We will just have to respectfully disagree on my motives. From my perspective they are just interest based, not brand based.
How about thinking before posting. Read the room. Or, just continue to be a troll. I am betting you will choose the latter, based on past experience. I wish the hide button also hid posts that quote you. That would solve my problem. By the way, I have heard from several others by PM thanking me for calling you out. As I said, it is not just me.
p.12 #8 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I am not changing my mind on my comment about mass. I have always favored a camera that has significant mass. Lenses are another story.
If Steve (1bwana1) is a troll, he has me fooled. Now, I know I am gullible. Maybe he is and I don't see it. He just does not rub me the wrong way.
"Stepper Motor" does rub me the wrong way. He is a troll.
I like Steve, or I would not have made the comment about the box. What's in the box? He likes Sony and I don't. It is that simple.
Steve gives copious amounts of credit toward the progress Nikon has made in mirrorless. And he says that he is glad for Nikon folks getting this Z9 (paraphrasing now). That is not a troll.
I am a Nikon fan man..... not boy. Been with them for 37 years now. Predicted they would "hit the Z9 out of the park". And things look pretty good from here
At this point, it really does not matter what "outsiders" say about Nikon anymore. It will matter less when we've had our hands on it for a few months.
Like to add one more comment. 1bwana1 has also commented many times that this (Z9 and Nikon's progress) is helping the industry (again, paraphrasing).
p.12 #10 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I really have no problem about Steve's comment regarding size as well. What he said is true and there is no denying that.However, one may be like bigger, heftier tool, other will prefer smaller and lighter tool and there is nothing wrong with that.
I am buying Z9 but will keep Z7 ii just because I also prefer to use smaller lighter bodies for many things.
Most time when I will use 50/1.2s, Z7 ii will do just fine.
Do I wish Z9 to be smaller and lighter, I suppose that would not hurt but do I wish Z9 to be smaller and lighter with the price of overheating and less video time, I don't think so.
Do I wish Z9 to have removable grip and no compromise in heat management, why not but I don't think any camera company has figure out a way to do that just yet so for now, I am willing to setting for Z9/Z7 ii combination.
Some issues I don't always agree with Steve but at least the disagreement is cordial and never deteriorate beyond being civil and I think that is perfectly fine.
However now that Z9 is imminent, nobody talk bad about my new baby
p.12 #12 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Do you really need someone from another camp to give credit to Nikon to feel warm and fuzzy? I feel it is more condescending than genuine praise. All you have to do to trigger the true Steve is to say anything negative about the Sony a1. 😂 All the "Nikon deserves credit for .." talk immediately changes.
But hey, you are welcome to hero-worship anyone. 🙏🏼
bs kite wrote:
I am not changing my mind on my comment about mass. I have always favored a camera that has significant mass. Lenses are another story.
If Steve (1bwana1) is a troll, he has me fooled. Now, I know I am gullible. Maybe he is and I don't see it. He just does not rub me the wrong way.
"Stepper Motor" does rub me the wrong way. He is a troll.
I like Steve, or I would not have made the comment about the box. What's in the box? He likes Sony and I don't. It is that simple.
Steve gives copious amounts of credit toward the progress Nikon has made in mirrorless. And he says that he is glad for Nikon folks getting this Z9 (paraphrasing now). That is not a troll.
I am a Nikon fan man..... not boy. Been with them for 37 years now. Predicted they would "hit the Z9 out of the park". And things look pretty good from here
At this point, it really does not matter what "outsiders" say about Nikon anymore. It will matter less when we've had our hands on it for a few months.
Like to add one more comment. 1bwana1 has also commented many times that this (Z9 and Nikon's progress) is helping the industry (again, paraphrasing).
p.12 #13 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
saaketham wrote:
All you have to do to trigger the true Steve is to say anything negative about the Sony a1. 😂
That would be impossible...there is nothing negative one can say about the A1. Even the A1 Mk II won't be better than the A1 because there is no way to improve on the A1. You know this well since you own this god of cameras.
p.12 #14 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Naranek wrote:
Just gird yourself for wall the negative comparison to Sony after he rents a Z9 for a few days.
Actually there will be no need for that. I already have some good time spent with a Z9. So much to like about it from what I have seen so far.
The shape of camera does feel great in the hand.
The EVF is very nice to look through when shooting. Very natural looking, easy on the eyes as they say.
The menus are both extensive and intuitive for anyone who has used a recent Nikon camera.
The configuration options are extensive. It will be very easy to set up an agile camera system that suits most peoples preferences and use cases.
The camera is very fast and responsive. This includes all aspects.
The AF is flexible, powerful, and super fast. The focus indicators track very well in the EVF giving a solid and confident feel regarding focus when shooting. I think everyone will be impressed with it. This seems to extend to the output in the files as well. The days of posts saying Nikon is meaningfully behind in AF are over should this hold up in a wide distribution of conditions and use cases. AS I have repeatedly said, it is my expectation that it will.
I can go on. In fact, at this point I have no negatives that are important enough to post, and have not done so. I am assuming that the things I have found awkward or difficult up until this time are likely user error/unfamiliarity with details of usage. There will be some negatives as the camera sees more usage. This is true of all cameras. I will continue to feel free to discuss those. There is lots more to learn about the Z9.
Currently, specs like size, weight, FPS, resolutions, and such are known quantities. It is appropriate and accurate to discuss and express opinions on those at this time. Many of the features that are based on stacked sensor technology are new only to Nikon shooters. They have been available in other systems for 4 years or more at this time. I have a lot of experince with them. This includes mechanical shutterless shooting. Some make claims that this is new. It is not. They make claims that since the shutter is not used for shooting that it is more protective. Maybe so to some degree, but not meaningfully so. Whenever our local Nikon Reps show the Z9 he constantly stresses to not touch this protective shutter, saying that It will break if you do. In fact, this was the most common statement made by them at a recent demo here of the Z9. Same as any of the other implementations from other manufactures. It must have happened at some point in demonstrations. On the other hand they made a point of swinging the Z9 around while holding it by the rear screen in various positions. They seem proud of how usable and durable the design and implementation this feature is. I agree with them, I wish it were on my a1.
Yes, it is likely that I will compare the Z9 to the cameras closest to its class that I am most familiar with. Currently that will be the Sony a1. I think this is natural, valid, and appropriate. Canon shooters will likely compare it to the Canon cameras they are most familiar with. Again, natural and expected. That is not a brand thing. It is a reference point based on experiences. Nothing more sinister than that. I also make concerted effort at not getting personal, name calling, labeling or attacking anyone. If you still find that trolling then so be it. I don't agree.
There are those that have posted in support of me over the accusations of trolling. This they did on their own, and I am grateful for their expression of friendship. They are aware to various degrees of things, opportunities, and experiences regarding the Z9 that have been going on behind the scenes for many months now. They know that I have been an optimist and supporter regarding the Z9 and Nikon overall.
Enough said on this subject. Back to discussing camera gear, in the gear forums....
p.12 #15 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
saaketham wrote:
Do you really need someone from another camp to give credit to Nikon to feel warm and fuzzy? I feel it is more condescending than genuine praise. All you have to do to trigger the true Steve is to say anything negative about the Sony a1. 😂 All the "Nikon deserves credit for .." talk immediately changes.
But hey, you are welcome to hero-worship anyone. 🙏🏼
Well, I sure wouldn't be worshiping your wise ass.
p.12 #17 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
1bwana1 wrote:
The shape of camera does feel great in the hand.
Steve when you owned Nikon DSLRs in the past which ones were your favorite for feel/ergonomics?
And can you say generally how that handling compares to the Z9 for you? I know it’s subjective but I enjoy reading different people’s take on this.
p.12 #18 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
bs kite wrote:
Well, I sure wouldn't be worshiping your wise ass.
Perfect. Glad to hear that.
Naranek wrote:
Just gird yourself for wall the negative comparison to Sony after he rents a Z9 for a few days.
Oh good lord .. please !
arbitrage wrote:
Even the A1 Mk II won't be better than the A1 Agree 110%
In all honesty, I've argued a lot on this forum with Steve in the past, but then chatted with him a bit
and realized that he had a very interesting life. Lots of cool experiences, and has done some really fun-sounding jobs.
I even bought a Sony a1 grip from him which was shipped fast, well packed.
But on the Nikon forum, he's my enemy #1.
p.12 #19 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
SeattleDucks wrote:
Steve when you owned Nikon DSLRs in the past which ones were your favorite for feel/ergonomics?
And can you say generally how that handling compares to the Z9 for you? I know it’s subjective but I enjoy reading different people’s take on this.
I owned a D7200, then stepped up to a D810 which I had for years, and for a short time a D850.
When I owned the D7200 it was my first DSLR and I had no expectations.
I loved the way the D810/850, felt in my hands. In fact, I would still prefer the way it fit my hands better than the bare Sony cameras. I found an "L" bracket on my a1 that makes it fit perfectly. The Z9 is bigger than the D810/850. I sometimes shot the D810/850 with the battery grip when shooting lots of portrait orientated images. For me the fit in the hand of the Z9 is better than the D810 with grip, but I still would prefer the D810/850 ungripped, unless as I said shooting in portrait mode. More for button position issues than hand feel.
Along the same vein I prefer the a1 with the textured bracket to the Z9. Similar to the D810/850, I prefer the Z9 feel in my hands to the a1 with battery grip. But not enough to give up the flexibility of the smaller a1. I can configure it to various sizes and weights depending on need. To me that is very valuable.
To me the whole ergonomics thing is to a large extent about familiarity and muscle memory. At this point I know the menus, buttons, dials, and customizations of my current camera so well that anything else feels awkward. However, in most things I find that I adapt to these changes in a short time. The exception for me is size and weight. Due to some injuries size and weight are serious issues that heavily influence my choices. Even within the Sony system, my lens choices are influenced by size and weight considerations.
p.12 #20 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
saaketham wrote:
But on the Nikon forum, he's my enemy #1.
I sure understand situational adversaries. People I loved very much were my adversaries in various competitive environments like racing, surfing, and flying. But never enemies. I have had these too in certain very serious environments.
Why have enemies or even adversaries of any kind in a wonderful community like FM? This is about sharing our interests in photography and associated gear. I honestly don't get that. It seems silly to me.
Not to be confused of course with having interesting discussions where people disagree.
Agree 110%