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Archive 2021 · Any love for 28-75 G2

  
 
amv8
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p.9 #1 · Any love for 28-75 G2


tschopp wrote:
So based on my above testing, I would like to try a different copy of the 28-75. How do people typically do that? I ordered that one from B&H, obviously I will return it, do I tell them it is deffective and ask for an exchange? Any other tips?

Thanks
Steve


So typically a reputable retailer, like B&H, will offer you an exchange if you contact them and tell them the lens is defective. However, since there are a lot of variables in lens testing, I have found it easiest to compare two lenses side by side if possible. That's what I ended up doing, but I had two copies of the 28-75mm from two different retailers (I didn't initially intend to have two copies, but that's a longer story). The first one was reasonably skewed and is on it's way back to the retailer now. I'm not sure how you are doing your centering test, but the quote from Roger at LensRentals.com on this topic might be relevant:

RCicala wrote:
I've only tested 5,000 zooms so far so all I can say is the frequency of a zoom perfect at all focal lengths is lower than 1 in 5,000.


In looking at your graphs measuring jpg file size, I'm guessing what I'm seeing is the file size increasing as the image gets sharper across the field when you stop down to middle apertures, then starts to blur with diffraction?





Nov 14, 2021 at 05:11 PM
tsdevine
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p.9 #2 · Any love for 28-75 G2



From my recollection, you say whether you want to return it or exchange it. When you pick the exchange option you tell them the issue with the lens. I think B&H is out of stock from the first shipment, which is a bummer.

While I haven't formally tested it the way I normally do for a new lens. I've shot it enough to believe mine is near perfect, or as near perfect as I can tell on my a7R III.

tschopp wrote:
So based on my above testing, I would like to try a different copy of the 28-75. How do people typically do that? I ordered that one from B&H, obviously I will return it, do I tell them it is deffective and ask for an exchange? Any other tips?

Thanks
Steve





Nov 14, 2021 at 05:18 PM
Mister-Mr
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p.9 #3 · Any love for 28-75 G2


Consumer grade (mass produced )optics are never really perfect.. Of course we want ours to be that, but they are not made to the same precision as those for military and/or hubble telescope type applications.

I think R Ciala also said, if you find a 'perfect' lens, you don't have a sensitive enough test.

I wonder if anyone has ever been 'banned' at a retailer for buying and returning (too many ) multiple lenses ?
.



Nov 14, 2021 at 05:25 PM
tschopp
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p.9 #4 · Any love for 28-75 G2


amv8 wrote:
So typically a reputable retailer, like B&H, will offer you an exchange if you contact them and tell them the lens is defective. However, since there are a lot of variables in lens testing, I have found it easiest to compare two lenses side by side if possible. That's what I ended up doing, but I had two copies of the 28-75mm from two different retailers (I didn't initially intend to have two copies, but that's a longer story). The first one was reasonably skewed and is on it's way back to the retailer now. I'm not sure how you
...Show more

I'll contact B&H, hopefully the next one will be better. I am not looking for perfection in a lens, but this is not even close. The decentering problem is easily visible on a single shot, the right is a soft mess and the rest is sharp.

Yes, as the lenses are stopped down it sharpens up then softens with diffraction. Due to the poor light the effect is not as pronounced as usual. With good sunlight you get lots of high contrast micro shaddows in the bricks at various scales all the way to beyond what the sensor can resolve. But even with bad light it is still useful for comparing between the different lenses.



Nov 14, 2021 at 05:35 PM
tsdevine
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p.9 #5 · Any love for 28-75 G2



Hence my comment about as much as I can tell on my a7R III, arguably perfect is unattainable. But then again, maybe a blind squirrel finds a nut everyone once in a while....

Mister-Mr wrote:
Consumer grade (mass produced )optics are never really perfect.. Of course we want ours to be that, but they are not made to the same precision as those for military and/or hubble telescope type applications.

I think R Ciala also said, if you find a 'perfect' lens, you don't have a sensitive enough test.

I wonder if anyone has ever been 'banned' at a retailer for buying and returning (too many ) multiple lenses ?
.





Nov 14, 2021 at 05:36 PM
tsdevine
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p.9 #6 · Any love for 28-75 G2



At the end of the day, it can't be obvious as you describe, that's unacceptable.

tschopp wrote:
I'll contact B&H, hopefully the next one will be better. I am not looking for perfection in a lens, but this is not even close. The decentering problem is easily visible on a single shot, the right is a soft mess and the rest is sharp.

Yes, as the lenses are stopped down it sharpens up then softens with diffraction. Due to the poor light the effect is not as pronounced as usual. With good sunlight you get lots of high contrast micro shaddows in the bricks at various scales all the way to beyond what the sensor can resolve. But
...Show more




Nov 14, 2021 at 05:40 PM
tschopp
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p.9 #7 · Any love for 28-75 G2


Below are 100% crops of the center of the brick wall. The first image was had the focus point on the left edge. The second image had the focus point on the right edge.

When focused on the center, left, top, or bottom the image is consistent as shown by the graph in figure 3. Most of the image is sharp except for the right portion.

When focused on the right, the right improves a bit, but is never sharp, the rest of the image degrades lowering the overall sharpness of the image as shown in figure 3. This slowly improves as the lens is stopped down with peak sharpness around f/13. If the focus is elswhere peak sharpness is around f/5.6 - f/6.3 as typical on the a7r iv.

I'm not looking for perfection. In my job I do scientific testing of instrumentation and as mentioned if you can't see the flaws you don't have a good test yet. I am not looking for perfection, and i'm OK with non perfect lenses, but I'm not OK with this.

The testing shows, when focused on the right, the lens is sharper at f/22 than at f/2.8. Both shots are f/2.8.

















Nov 14, 2021 at 06:03 PM
tsdevine
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p.9 #8 · Any love for 28-75 G2


I generally shoot my Pentax at f/11, so keep that in mind. The Tamron shows more CA and barrel distortion, but after CA correction on both lenses they are close. Closer than my 24-105 gets anyway. Might be able to often get away without correct for distortion, but I want to see what happens when a profile is applied (hopefully it will come soon.)

That's my general impression so far.

Petegh wrote:
When you've had more of a chance to shoot with it Tim, I'd be interested how you think the Tammy performes at 28mm vs your beloved Pentax 28mm.





Nov 14, 2021 at 06:44 PM
amv8
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p.9 #9 · Any love for 28-75 G2


I've been testing the 28-75mm G2 and wanted to share some findings. A little history first. I used the first version of this lens on a photo trip back in 2019 (it was a rental from lensrentals.com). I was generally comparing it to the Sony 24-105 G that I had at the time. I thought the corners on the Tamron G1 were quite soft and decided not to purchase the lens. More recently, I purchased my first Tamron lens, the 70-180mm and have been very happy with its performance. I was excited when the G2 was announced and hoped that the image quality would be improved from the first version as claimed and pre-ordered a copy. As mentioned in other posts, my initial copy of the 28-75 G2 had some skew issues, but different than what @tschopp is seeing. In my case, if I focused on the center target of a flat wall, the left side, especially the upper left was blurred. But if I focused on the upper left target, that section was pretty sharp and the right side of the image went out. I also compared it side by side with a second copy which was much better.

As I shoot primarily landscape, I've been testing my second copy against other lenses that I have at similar focal lengths 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 75mm. All of these tests were done shooting the same general scene with subject focus between 10 and 30ft and manual focus.

First I compared the Tamron at 28mm and 35mm with my Sony 16-35 GM. This turned out to be much more challenging than I expected as I was getting results that didn't initially make sense to me. Finally, with additional experimentation I realized a couple of things. At 28 and 35mm, the 16-35 GM exhibits focus shift rearward when stopping down and has field curvature where the outer edges curve towards the camera. The Tamron does not exhibit noticeable focus shift and has a much flatter field. At the point of focus, The Tamron equals the GM at 28mm and is sharper at 35mm (the 16-35mm is not considered as good on the 35mm as on the wide end). The Tamron is very sharp when the focus point is in the central area of the image. As far as the rest of the image (edges/corners), they both seem good but are hard to direclty compare because of the focus shift/field curvature. The Tamron showed a little bit of CA in a couple of spots with highlights with the default profile correction.

At 50mm, I compared the Tamron with the Voigtlander 50mm Lanthar APO f2 as did @tsdevine. At the point of focus, they are almost indistinguishable. The CV APO is a little sharper at the corners, has a bit better contrast, and has a little more apparent DOF at any given aperture. Also, I think the CV APO did a bit better handling some very bright highlights which I expect is due to the APO nature. The two lenses were surprisingly close in performance though.

At 75mm, I compared to my Tamron 70-180mm. They both performed very similarly, except that the 70-180mm was a tad softer at f2.8.

In summary, I'm very impressed with the 28-75mm G2 and plan to keep this lens (but do check your copy as a couple of us on the forum have already seen significant variations in performance). Given its low weight, it should make a great travel lens. With that said, there are some downsides to the 28-75mm G2 compared to other lenses that you should be aware of:

- The lens does not say "GM" on it
- Given the price, you may not be afforded the opportunity to "justify" your purchase to a spouse, partner, or photographic colleague
- Tamron plagued this lens with fast, quiet autofocus, so you could be at risk of losing your purist badge




Nov 14, 2021 at 07:59 PM
tsdevine
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p.9 #10 · Any love for 28-75 G2



I think what I notice the most, I always seem to have less foreground depth of field to work with compared to several of my primes. But I'm very happy with how the lens performs.

amv8 wrote:
I've been testing the 28-75mm G2 and wanted to share some findings. A little history first. I used the first version of this lens on a photo trip back in 2019 (it was a rental from lensrentals.com). I was generally comparing it to the Sony 24-105 G that I had at the time. I thought the corners on the Tamron G1 were quite soft and decided not to purchase the lens. More recently, I purchased my first Tamron lens, the 70-180mm and have been very happy with its performance. I was excited when the G2 was announced and hoped that
...Show more




Nov 14, 2021 at 08:05 PM
Petegh
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p.9 #11 · Any love for 28-75 G2


tsdevine wrote:
I generally shoot my Pentax at f/11, so keep that in mind. The Tamron shows more CA and barrel distortion, but after CA correction on both lenses they are close. Closer than my 24-105 gets anyway. Might be able to often get away without correct for distortion, but I want to see what happens when a profile is applied (hopefully it will come soon.)

That's my general impression so far.


Thanks Tim. From what I've seen elsewhere, the Tamy's flare performance and sunstars probably limit its apeal as a good all-round 28mm (prime substitute) landscape lens.



Nov 15, 2021 at 05:31 AM
tsdevine
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p.9 #12 · Any love for 28-75 G2


Good point, I don't generally do sunstar shooting but I know that's very important to a lot of people. I also don't shoot much with the sun in the frame. It's interesting how Dustin Abbott seems to think it controlled flare pretty well, I guess time will tell on that one.

My Pentax isn't going anywhere, many of my favorite shots were taken with that lens.

Edit: I’ve done some through the window shots from my office, we finally have some sun here. I see a little bit at 28 when the sun is at a certain angle, but nothing horrendous. This was without a hood. Have we seen the flare performance noted for multiple reviews?

Petegh wrote:
Thanks Tim. From what I've seen elsewhere, the Tamy's flare performance and sunstars probably limit its apeal as a good all-round 28mm (prime substitute) landscape lens.




Edited on Nov 15, 2021 at 01:46 PM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2021 at 06:27 AM
tsdevine
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p.9 #13 · Any love for 28-75 G2



Anyone besides myself get a decent copy of this lens? I know there are at least a couple of people who have the lens (or it was on the way.)



Nov 15, 2021 at 08:55 AM
Mykal
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p.9 #14 · Any love for 28-75 G2


I think my copy is decent. Have not done any controlled testing but from what I see just shooting around the house and using at a wedding I am pleased.


Nov 15, 2021 at 01:47 PM
imposterjeff
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p.9 #15 · Any love for 28-75 G2


I preordered today from bh. Hope I get a good copy and if so ill get the 70-180 next


Nov 15, 2021 at 05:09 PM
jigesh
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p.9 #16 · Any love for 28-75 G2


tsdevine wrote:
Anyone besides myself get a decent copy of this lens? I know there are at least a couple of people who have the lens (or it was on the way.)


Mine is decent too based on preliminary testing in-house, and some brick-wall pics.



Nov 15, 2021 at 05:39 PM
Mister-Mr
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p.9 #17 · Any love for 28-75 G2


Out of interest, have you tried other test methods ? There's one described on this forum (and has it's own thread I think ) , and another one used by Jim Kasson ?

Jim Kasson test

Even though I believe those tests are conducted at much further distances, it would be interesting to see if either of those tests shows a similar issue..
...

tschopp wrote:
Below are 100% crops of the center of the brick wall. The first image was had the focus point on the left edge. The second image had the focus point on the right edge.

When focused on the center, left, top, or bottom the image is consistent as shown by the graph in figure 3. Most of the image is sharp except for the right portion.

When focused on the right, the right improves a bit, but is never sharp, the rest of the image degrades lowering the overall sharpness of the image as shown in figure 3. This slowly improves as
...Show more




Nov 15, 2021 at 08:43 PM
tschopp
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p.9 #18 · Any love for 28-75 G2


Mister-Mr wrote:
Out of interest, have you tried other test methods ? There's one described on this forum (and has it's own thread I think ) , and another one used by Jim Kasson ?

Jim Kasson test

Even though I believe those tests are conducted at much further distances, it would be interesting to see if either of those tests shows a similar issue..
...



This was the first test on the lens. I typically also like to shoot stars at night for testing. Center on the north star and set the shutter speed to avoid star movement on the edge of frame. I might take a few hundred shots and stack them. It's been cloudy and I also tested positive for covid, so I havn't done that. Point sources at infinity is a good test.

I like the idea of the Siemens star chart. When I looked into that previously I concluded I would need to purchase a chart (I did not do that) because I could not print high enough resolution or the sample file was not high enough resolution, don't remember.

I also like the idea of slightly out of focus point lights. That should reveal quiet a bit about the lens, but I really don't want to look for flaws for the sake of finding flaws. I am concerned with flaws that would be visible in actual use. I used to work in an optics lab, we used laser diffraction patterns to align our optics, that was really the most sensative. It seems similar to what lens rentals does with OLAF. But we were only interested in alignment at the laser wavelength and didn't have chromatic abberation concerns.

For the brick wall test at 70mm the camera was about 26 ft (8 m) away from the wall. The camera was perpendicular to the wall on a solid tripod. I also tested the Sigma 24-70DN and Sony 24-105 at the same time, they did not show this problem. I typically do the brick wall as a first test for all lenses. I have tested 12-24G, 24-105G, 70-350G, 24GM, 35GM, 135GM, 135L, 28-75 G1, Sigma 24-105, Sigma 50mm, 85mm DN, 100-400DN, purchased new or ebay or from FM. This is the first lens I found unacceptable. I don't know if I have any lenes that are perfect, the 35GM might be. My question is realy about will I be happy with the photos I get from the lens.



Nov 16, 2021 at 11:38 AM
onthebeam
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p.9 #19 · Any love for 28-75 G2


imposterjeff wrote:
I preordered today from bh. Hope I get a good copy and if so ill get the 70-180 next


Smart combo. Excellent.



Nov 16, 2021 at 03:51 PM
FJR1
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p.9 #20 · Any love for 28-75 G2


I received the Tamron 28-75 G2 today, and initial impressions are favorable with the lens appearing reasonably centered for a standard zoom, photos very sharp, and wide aperture rendering that is very pleasing to me. Just a quick note that in the new Lens Utility software, the Rotation Angle Setting for the focus ring is not available for this lens; it's just available for the new Tamron 35-150.


Nov 17, 2021 at 06:01 PM
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