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Archive 2020 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.

  
 
j4nu
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


So, I wasn't able to fight off the temptation to compare the two and my Sigma just arrived... so I thought I'll share my findings on the go .
First I'll go with sharpness (+AF) comparison, I did my usual decentering test using Fred's method as the basis, so handheld, center focus using magnification in AF-S, then put the focused buidling in all four corners by moving and tilting the camera. These are JPEGs with brightness bumped up a bit to make it easier to spot differences.
One note is that Samyang did not focus that reliably in magnified AF-S so maybe manual focus would achieve a bit better result... On the pictures it's always Sigma on the left, Samyang on the right.

Center:


Center focus 2nd time to check SY focus:


Upper left corner:


Upper right corner:


Lower left corner:


Lower right corner:


The whole "scene":


Sigma


Samyang

I'll be updating this post/thread with my findings over the weekend, hopefully the weather cooperates.
I'll try to check AF on my kids next...





Sep 04, 2020 at 07:16 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


Hmm, AF is not that much different than Samyang's on the first try - I'll have to shoot more to see if it's actually faster and more consistent.
A quick covid era portrait :



Sep 04, 2020 at 10:07 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


Bokeh balls at night.
I can't guarantee the focus was exactly the same, so the size might not be comparable but either way it shows they are pretty similar:


Sigma


Samyang

... and at f2.8, more round on Sigma:






Sep 04, 2020 at 12:51 PM
Jonathan F
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


This Sigma looks like a winner! If 85mm was my bread-n-butter, I'd buy this lens in a heartbeat!

Saying that, for the price I've been super happy with my Samyang 85mm! Quick question, have you tried AF fine tuning your Samyang? That's one thing I actually like with the Samyang E-mount glass is the ability to do your own corrections.




Sep 05, 2020 at 10:45 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


Jonathan F wrote:
This Sigma looks like a winner! If 85mm was my bread-n-butter, I'd buy this lens in a heartbeat!

Saying that, for the price I've been super happy with my Samyang 85mm! Quick question, have you tried AF fine tuning your Samyang? That's one thing I actually like with the Samyang E-mount glass is the ability to do your own corrections.



I don't really have any issues with SY85 AF normally, I'd say it's a bit less consistent than my previous Sony FE 85 f1.8 under certain conditions. In this test, AF-S magnified view the camera indicated the focus has been achieved but that was not the case, repeating the focusing process allowed the focus to be reached eventually. I don't know why that is but I see similar behavior on Sigma 35mm f1.2 (AF-S, magnified view) ...



Sep 05, 2020 at 12:35 PM
j4nu
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


CA / rendering wide open (harsh light).
CA mostly goes away in both cases when stopped down, so I'll only post wide open (f/1.4) where the difference is visible (Sigma on the left as usual):


Center.


Upper left corner (in Sigma case the small specks are flies or some dust/debris reflecting light that got in the shot I think because I see it moving in next shots using other apertures).

Whole "scene":


Sigma


Samyang

I have to admit SY was at bit of a disadvantage because I forgot the hood on, while on the Sigma I had a small metal screw-in hood (the original is a joke, unless nobody cares for size but why would you buy dg dn then). I don't think it affects this comparison though...



Sep 06, 2020 at 07:07 AM
numbertwo
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


So what do you think? Is the difference worth almost double the price?


Sep 06, 2020 at 07:36 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


numbertwo wrote:
So what do you think? Is the difference worth almost double the price?


Please wait for the distortion test
... but seriously I think Samyang is unbeatable when it comes to price/performance ratio in many offerings (e.g. 45mm f1.8) .
Whether someone is willing to pay more (e.g. 2x more) for improvements over an already very good peformance is always a personal choice...



Sep 06, 2020 at 07:50 AM
numbertwo
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


j4nu wrote:
Please wait for the distortion test
... but seriously I think Samyang is unbeatable when it comes to price/performance ratio in many offerings (e.g. 45mm f1.8) .
Whether someone is willing to pay more (e.g. 2x more) for improvements over an already very good peformance is always a personal choice...


Yes, the distortion alone is enough for me not to want the sigma, that kind of distortion in an 85... but many people donít care, and thatís what I donít understand that theyíre pixel peeping at 400% in the corners and donít care about distortion...

However I can tell differences like colors (that need tweaks in the Samyang), and less microcontrast in the Samyang wide open (good for portraits, not so much for other applications)...

Pe: have you tried the 45mm? I own the Sony 50mm and Iíve thought many times about trying the Samyang, but almost all the samples I see online have a pretty bad bokeh, and in some YouTube reviews I watched the Samyang is decentered... I have a good copy of the Sony 50 that actually has nice bokeh and although wide open is not the sharpest at close range, itís more than enough for my needs abs half the price of the Samyang... anyways I think I should try it by myself haha

Edited on Sep 06, 2020 at 08:06 AM · View previous versions



Sep 06, 2020 at 08:03 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


This was supposed to be a magnification test but was taken over by the overpresent distortion .


Sigma.


Samyang.


Both AF-S at MFD, left side is distortion correction off, right on.

So, as you can see pretty crazy for Sigma...




Sep 06, 2020 at 08:05 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


numbertwo wrote:
Yes, the distortion alone is enough for me not to want the sigma, that kind of distortion in an 85... but many people donít care, and thatís what I donít understand that theyíre pixel peeping at 400% in the corners and donít care about distortion...

However I can tell differences like colors (that need tweaks in the Samyang), and less microcontrast in the Samyang wide open (good for portraits, not so much for other applications)...

Pe: have you tried the 45mm? I own the Sony 50mm and Iíve thought many times about trying the Samyang, but almost all the samples I see
...Show more

Yes, I think we discussed SY45 in its own thread I never used Sony 50 but heard good stuff about its bokeh so it might be that it's more pleasing than SY45 (which is no bokeh master by any means, but pleasing to my taste).

As for the 85mm comparison , as you said there are certain features of the Samyang that can be either good or bad, depending on the usage (color cast, lower contrast).Sigma to me is "cleaner" (i.e. look at CA) as in more "clinical", which itself can also be good or bad as it also means less character. So, as someone said in the Sigma thread, it's probably a slightly better all-around lens, though I think the distortion is excessive (I normally shoot with distortion correction off).
I was also expecting better AF over the Samyang, as of now I'd say they are comparable - I'll need to use it more to see if Sigma is indeed better. I do have a feeling that over time Sigma's AF will prove more reliable, but I don't have any proof for that.
I also think flare resistance will be better on Sigma, but haven't tested that yet...
As for the main question, I don't think the Sigma is worth twice the price of the Samyang, especially since I really like how SY renders people. I'm still in the return period for the Sigma, but I have to say I enjoyed using it over the weekend so it will be difficult to let it go (I'll have to see if that distortion really bothers me)...



Sep 06, 2020 at 08:30 AM
sismailian
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


Nice comparison thanks for posting. I too think the samyang 85 tends to have a bit less hit rate with af-c. I have the dock and tried some af adjustments but kinda really made no difference so I reset it back to default. I do have the latest firmware. Main reason i got the samyang was due to rendering i really like so i kept it. Don't think the sigma is really worth it for twice the price really but they had to make sacrifices in keeping size down. Must say the distortion is pretty huge on it!


Sep 07, 2020 at 03:00 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


'the distortion alone is enough for me not to want the sigma, that kind of distortion in an 85... but many people donít care, and thatís what I donít understand that theyíre pixel peeping at 400% in the corners and donít care about distortion'

It's interesting to see the reception to the new high-distortion portrait lenses among the review community. People will search for CA and detail beyond what can possibly matter yet pass over what has long been considered an outrageous levels of distortion.

As a principle, computer correction moves the design goalposts towards computing dependence and away from sound optical practice. It's there nagging in the background that they took this shortcut and like cooked RAWs, it could be the thin end of the wedge, moving forward. OK for small incursions but the Batis 85mm has all of 3% pincushion, and this one looks even worse.

'To my eye, pincushion distortion is visually troublesome compared to barrel distortion, and this 3% pincushion distortion is unacceptable for many purposes if not corrected: skylines, buildings, etc would bow upwards, and filling the frame with a face is not going to look flattering'

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/20150429_1044-ZeissBatis-85f1_8-MTF.html

'The nature of...software corrections of RAW files mean that this shouldnít be a dealbreaker, and, frankly, I didnít need to do any correcting to most of my RAWs anyway.'

https://dustinabbott.net/2020/08/sigma-85mm-f1-4-dn-art-review/ (excellent images of it half way down - gah)

'Distortions are of a pretty strong pin-cushion type. The setting for distortion compensation in camera is currently ignored by Adobeís RAW converter and treated as OFF and there is also no lens profile for the new Sigma in Lightroom 9.4 / CRAW 12.4. This hopefully gets remedied in a later version. To get rid of the distortions you have to manually dial in a compensation of -11 in Lightroom.'

https://www.cameralabs.com/sigma-85mm-f1-4-dg-dn-art-review/2/

'Distortion is the Achilles' heel of Sigma's new 85mm DN Art...it's completely correctable so I'd ultimately call it a non-issue.' 'correction should be completely automated and not something you even need to think about.'

yet:

'And it's fairly heavy pincushion distortion at that. It actually required the maximum correction possible in Capture One Pro to remedy it.'

https://ayrn.io/review-sigma-85mm-f-1-4-dg-dn-art/#image-quality-Distortion



Sep 07, 2020 at 04:43 PM
3catsinky
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


wow wow wow, definitely NOT worth the 2x price difference. Any chance you can compare it to a Batis 85?


Sep 07, 2020 at 04:58 PM
j4nu
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


sismailian wrote:
Nice comparison thanks for posting. I too think the samyang 85 tends to have a bit less hit rate with af-c. I have the dock and tried some af adjustments but kinda really made no difference so I reset it back to default. I do have the latest firmware. Main reason i got the samyang was due to rendering i really like so i kept it. Don't think the sigma is really worth it for twice the price really but they had to make sacrifices in keeping size down. Must say the distortion is pretty huge on it!


I'll try to post some final comparison images (+my closing thoughts, pros&cons vs SY) in the next couple of days, probably focused on rendering as I suspect Samyang should have nicer (dreaded here on FMF) transition zones, but overall I'd say Sigma's rendering is very pleasing, especially considering how sharp and corrected it is (I expected something along the lines of very sharp -> ugly bokeh).
... but I need to take some photos properly, switching lenses one after another, as otherwise that test won't mean much.
I have to say sharpness and "cleanliness" (where did CA go, though that distortion was uninvited ) of Sigma is addicting, now I wish even more I had a high resolution body ...

A couple photos from the Sigma:

* foreground/background:


* + 3D pop


* again


* f/5.6 close-up


* clean chrome


* fore/back ground again








Sep 07, 2020 at 05:03 PM
j4nu
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


3catsinky wrote:
wow wow wow, definitely NOT worth the 2x price difference. Any chance you can compare it to a Batis 85?


Sorry, I never had the batis - only Sony FE 85 f1.8 which I sold when I moved on to the Samyang...



Sep 07, 2020 at 05:08 PM
j4nu
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


philip_pj wrote:
'the distortion alone is enough for me not to want the sigma, that kind of distortion in an 85... but many people donít care, and thatís what I donít understand that theyíre pixel peeping at 400% in the corners and donít care about distortion'

It's interesting to see the reception to the new high-distortion portrait lenses among the review community. People will search for CA and detail beyond what can possibly matter yet pass over what has long been considered an outrageous levels of distortion.

As a principle, computer correction moves the design goalposts towards computing dependence and away from sound
...Show more

Well, I like sharp lenses - guilty as charged...
I agree that this level of distortion is hard to swallow, but I can see what Sigma was going for - you can feel this lens is smaller even compared to the Samyang (though you can also feel it's a bit heavier).
All the photos, besides the distortion comparison ones, I posted here are with distortion correction turned *off* so I'd say it really depends on the usage whether the distortion makes or brakes this lens for you (I'd also wager that correction makes it not a 85mm anymore and the exceptional sharpness is also lost to some extent at least)...
I also don't think this was thought as a strict portrait lens as both GM and SY are better fit for that purpose imho...



Sep 07, 2020 at 05:15 PM
MAubrey
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


philip_pj wrote:
'the distortion alone is enough for me not to want the sigma, that kind of distortion in an 85... but many people donít care, and thatís what I donít understand that theyíre pixel peeping at 400% in the corners and donít care about distortion'


If the distortion is simple (as it is here), the main issue with distortion is that you loose resolution when you correct it, so even then it comes back to sharpness.



Sep 07, 2020 at 05:37 PM
j4nu
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.



'And it's fairly heavy pincushion distortion at that. It actually required the maximum correction possible in Capture One Pro to remedy it.'

https://ayrn.io/review-sigma-85mm-f-1-4-dg-dn-art/#image-quality-Distortion



I think this is incorrect, because C1 uses the embedded (in RAW) correction parameters ("Manufacturer's profile"), which defaults to 100 (out of 120 scale) = as in-camera applied correction.
If you chose 120, it's more than the correction applied by the camera, but you can still switch to another profile (i.e. "generic pincushion distortion") which gives you an even broader range of correction (though probably not as detailed).

Examples:

* raw with in-camera enabled correction (=100):


* raw with 0 correction:


* raw with 100 correction:


* raw with 120 correction (max in "Manufacturer's profile")


* raw with 4 (/120) correction using "Generic Pincushion Distortion" profile:



Sep 08, 2020 at 04:10 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · My Samyang 85mm vs Sigma 85mm dg dn f1.4 comparison.


For me, distortion isn't as big a deal if the profile corrected images still have outstanding image quality. Sigma's 56mm f/1.4 for APS-C also has very strong pincushion distortion, but even after correction, sharpness is outstanding, so it doesn't bother me at all.

I have the Samyang 85, and I don't see enough to warrant a switch to the Sigma, but it wouldn't bother me considering image quality is still excellent after the profile is applied.



Sep 08, 2020 at 07:12 AM
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