p.6 #1 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Alpha_Geist wrote:
Whelp, the lens will be arriving next week. I'm glad it uses 39mm filters as I have all the black and white contrast filters I need for it already covered.
Question! For those using this lens on a digital Leica body, what lens profile are you using, if any? Would using a lens profile on a Monocrhom body provide any benefit?
Post some pictures when you get yours!
The Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5 Color Skopar II is so small that it's hard to appreciate it just by seeing pictures of the lens.
Leica sells the 28mm f/5.6 Summaron, which is the smallest Leica lens currently in production. It's 18mm long and weighs 165g.
As a comparison the CV 35/2.5 is only 5mm longer (23mm) and weighs 31 grams less! -- Imagine how small and light that is -- and that's being more than 2 stops faster than the Summaron.
p.6 #2 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Post some pictures when you get yours!
The Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5 Color Skopar II is so small that it's hard to appreciate it just by seeing pictures of the lens.
Leica sells the 28mm f/5.6 Summaron, which is the smallest Leica lens currently in production. It's 18mm long and weighs 165g.
As a comparison the CV 35/2.5 is only 5mm longer (23mm) and weighs 31 grams less! -- Imagine how small and light that is -- and that's being more than 2 stops faster than the Summaron.
Thank you Fred! I will indeed post some shots with the lens on both the Monochrom and M-A bodies. I wish I didn’t have to wait until next week for the lens as I have a shoot tomorrow scheduled downtown. It will be the first shoot since Covid paralyzed the world.
Not only is the CV 35/2.5 lighter and two stops faster, it’s lighter on the wallet too! This will be the smallest and possibly lightest lens I’ve ever used. I’ll set a yellow contrast filter on it and forget it-it’s that small.
Fred, do you still have the lens(es)? I know you use a M10. Did you use the lens “un-coded” on your M? I’m wondering if there’s any benefit to use a lens code/profile on the Monochrom.
p.6 #3 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Alpha_Geist wrote:
Thank you Fred! I will indeed post some shots with the lens on both the Monochrom and M-A bodies. I wish I didn’t have to wait until next week for the lens as I have a shoot tomorrow scheduled downtown. It will be the first shoot since Covid paralyzed the world.
Not only is the CV 35/2.5 lighter and two stops faster, it’s lighter on the wallet too! This will be the smallest and possibly lightest lens I’ve ever used. I’ll set a yellow contrast filter on it and forget it-it’s that small.
Fred, do you still have the lens(es)? I know you use a M10. Did you use the lens “un-coded” on your M? I’m wondering if there’s any benefit to use a lens code/profile on the Monochrom. ...Show more →
Yes, I have the CV 35/1.2 III and CV 35/2.5 II lenses for the M10. I do not use any camera profile as I prefer to edit the RAWs in Lightroom. I also use LensTagger to give the proper lens EXIF to the files.
p.6 #4 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, I have the CV 35/1.2 III and CV 35/2.5 II lenses for the M10. I do not use any camera profile as I prefer to edit the RAWs in Lightroom. I also use LensTagger to give the proper lens EXIF to the files.
Fred, if you shoot in RAW/DNG with profiles turned on, will the profile affect the RAW/DNG or just JPG (if you shoot in JPG)?
p.6 #9 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Fred Miranda wrote:
With the Zeiss, there will be a small blockage of the 35mm framelines and with the Voigtlander there is no finder blockage.
Interestingly the Zeiss 35/2.8 ZM's physical size and weight is actually almost the same as the Voigtlander 35/2 Ultron, which is a stop faster.
While there is blockage of the 35mm framelines with the C-Biogon, it is slight at best. Please reference the (crude) iPhone pic below
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Fred Miranda wrote:
I've never tried the Zeiss 35/2.8 ZM but have experience with the 35/2 ZM and Loxia 35/2 (same optical design).
Are the f/2 and f/2.8 similar in rendering?
The C-Biogon is sharper than the 35 Loxia/Biogon at f/2 and f/2.8 in my experience. f/4 and beyond the results are similar. Being f/2.8 and a wide angle, a bit of that 'pop' is lost IMO. It's a more clinical and higher contrast lens.
p.6 #10 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've never tried the Zeiss 35/2.8 ZM but have experience with the 35/2 ZM and Loxia 35/2 (same optical design).
Are the f/2 and f/2.8 similar in rendering? d.s. wrote:
They're different. My time with the C-Biogon on film probably wouldn't make for a fair comparison, but I'll try to take a few shots for you on my A7Riii over the weekend.
Beyond that it's worth noting that the induced field curvature is pronounced at f/8. As others who own or have used the lens on the A7/9* lines likely know, it does not make for an good companion.
While less telling than the RAW files, here are a few samples at f/2.8, f/5.6, and f/8, respectively.
p.6 #11 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
I started this thread thinking I'd found the small 35 focal length lens I wanted for my walk-around on the A7R4. Two-thirds through Fred mentions in passing that the Sony sensor stack ruins the image!
From 1966 to 1992 the walk-around "job" was held by my Leica M2 and the 35mm f2 Summicron. I can't justify buying the current Leica bodies as a way to shoot with the Color-Skopar 35mm f2.5.
I am truly sad that there isn't a pancake this small that will work with the (unmodified)Sony sensor.
My other camera system is an assortment of Fuji bodies/lenses and I think as I type this I'll have to go forward with my existing lens/sensor carriers (aka camera bodies!) I do like my Fuji x100T, and I have an XPro-2 on the shelf. So I guess I'll have to work with one of those. Fixed-lens is truly pocketable and the XPro-2 with my 23mm f1.4 is, well, luggable. (I do like the 23mm's clutch...) I don't like 40mm equivalent but might have to see what Fuji's 27mm version 2 looks like - out soon.
Mattias Burling makes strong case for the M8 capability and its "reasonable" pricing. I think carrying that combo my eye would be thinking B&W... That and an interesting 28mm?
Arghhh. I want a true pancake for the A7R4, which I do not want to modify. All the other brands and models mentioned in this thread are too big except maybe the Ultron, but that's not really pancake.
p.6 #12 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
MaunaKea7007 wrote:
I started this thread thinking I'd found the small 35 focal length lens I wanted for my walk-around on the A7R4. Two-thirds through Fred mentions in passing that the Sony sensor stack ruins the image!
From 1966 to 1992 the walk-around "job" was held by my Leica M2 and the 35mm f2 Summicron. I can't justify buying the current Leica bodies as a way to shoot with the Color-Skopar 35mm f2.5.
I am truly sad that there isn't a pancake this small that will work with the (unmodified)Sony sensor.
My other camera system is an assortment of Fuji bodies/lenses and I think as I type this I'll have to go forward with my existing lens/sensor carriers (aka camera bodies!) I do like my Fuji x100T, and I have an XPro-2 on the shelf. So I guess I'll have to work with one of those. Fixed-lens is truly pocketable and the XPro-2 with my 23mm f1.4 is, well, luggable. (I do like the 23mm's clutch...) I don't like 40mm equivalent but might have to see what Fuji's 27mm version 2 looks like - out soon.
Mattias Burling makes strong case for the M8 capability and its "reasonable" pricing. I think carrying that combo my eye would be thinking B&W... That and an interesting 28mm?
Arghhh. I want a true pancake for the A7R4, which I do not want to modify. All the other brands and models mentioned in this thread are too big except maybe the Ultron, but that's not really pancake. ...Show more →
Then you want the Samyang/Rokinon 35mm f/2.8. It's the same length as the CV Skopar with a M to E adapter and its weighs even less.
p.6 #13 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
MaunaKea7007 wrote:
I started this thread thinking I'd found the small 35 focal length lens I wanted for my walk-around on the A7R4. Two-thirds through Fred mentions in passing that the Sony sensor stack ruins the image!
From 1966 to 1992 the walk-around "job" was held by my Leica M2 and the 35mm f2 Summicron. I can't justify buying the current Leica bodies as a way to shoot with the Color-Skopar 35mm f2.5.
I am truly sad that there isn't a pancake this small that will work with the (unmodified)Sony sensor.
My other camera system is an assortment of Fuji bodies/lenses and I think as I type this I'll have to go forward with my existing lens/sensor carriers (aka camera bodies!) I do like my Fuji x100T, and I have an XPro-2 on the shelf. So I guess I'll have to work with one of those. Fixed-lens is truly pocketable and the XPro-2 with my 23mm f1.4 is, well, luggable. (I do like the 23mm's clutch...) I don't like 40mm equivalent but might have to see what Fuji's 27mm version 2 looks like - out soon.
Mattias Burling makes strong case for the M8 capability and its "reasonable" pricing. I think carrying that combo my eye would be thinking B&W... That and an interesting 28mm?
Arghhh. I want a true pancake for the A7R4, which I do not want to modify. All the other brands and models mentioned in this thread are too big except maybe the Ultron, but that's not really pancake. ...Show more →
Most M and LTM pancakes have rear elements that sit very close to the film/sensor plane, which, I believe is responsible in part for the corner issues on unmodded Sonys.
If a 40mm winds up being doable for you, and manual focus is your preference, the smallest lens without sensor stack corner performance issues is the Heliar 40/2.8. To use it, the Voigtlander VM-E Close focus adapter (perhaps any adapter with a helicoid) is required though.
p.6 #14 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
d.s. and MAubrey- thank you, helpful input.
Fred, I'm not upset to learn that I'll have to sell a kidney to use the 35 color-skopar on a current Leica body as opposed to the A7r4 - that's why I so value the forums and sharing experiences.
As background context, I bought my A7r4 for landscape exploration here in my exciting new PNW surroundings. OK, I'm stuck at/near home now. Still.
My goal researching pancake lenses is to gain more tools to take pictures moving through spaces with people (someday again I hope in my remaining years) without worrying those that observe this activity...as best I can within my photo budget. And up to my quality standards. The M2 in the 60s, 70s, early 80s filled that need so well. No one asked if it was a Leica! Now I think I'll stick with my XPro2 and X100T for a while. Maybe move on to the X100V or XPro3 someday.
p.6 #15 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
MaunaKea7007 wrote:
d.s. and MAubrey- thank you, helpful input.
Fred, I'm not upset to learn that I'll have to sell a kidney to use the 35 color-skopar on the A7r4 - that's why I so value the forums and sharing experiences.
As background context, I bought my A7r4 for landscape exploration here in my exciting new PNW surroundings. OK, I'm stuck at/near home now. Still.
My goal researching pancake lenses is to gain more tools to take pictures moving through spaces with people (someday again I hope in my remaining years) without worrying those that observe this activity...as best I can within my photo budget. And up to my quality standards. The M2 in the 60s, 70s, early 80s filled that need so well. No one asked if it was a Leica! Now I think I'll stick with my XPro2 and X100T for a while. Maybe move on to the X100V or XPro3 someday. ...Show more →
I would suggest the Voigtlander 40/2.8 Heliar for the Sony. This lens has a very nice character and smooth rendering.
The only prerequisite is a helicoid adapter even though the lens was designed for the Sony sensor stack.
Aside from using a MF lens, the Sony 35/2.8 ZA or Samyang 35/2.8 are the lenses closest to pancake size you will find.
Voigtlander VM 40mm f/2.8 Heliar Lens for Sony E-Mount
p.6 #16 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I would suggest the Voigtlander 40/2.8 Heliar for the Sony. This lens has a very nice character and smooth rendering.
The only prerequisite is a helicoid adapter even though the lens was designed for the Sony sensor stack.
Aside from using a MF lens, the Sony 35/2.8 ZA or Samyang 35/2.8 are the lenses closest to pancake size you will find.
Fred, I know they aren't the same designs, but is the 40mm Heliar competitive with the 50mm Heliar in sharpness? I had forgotten about this lens and my curiosity is rekindled.
p.6 #17 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
MaunaKea7007 wrote:
Still.
My goal researching pancake lenses is to gain more tools to take pictures moving through spaces with people (someday again I hope in my remaining years) without worrying those that observe this activity...as best I can within my photo budget.
By this are you suggesting more of an indoor event or street photography focus? Available light, distance, and your desire and ability to master a chosen lens' available depth of field in a given scenario will dictate appropriate recommendations.
With that said, I get the sense that a smallish 28mm would tick more boxes, if you don't mind a bit more perspective distortion than a 35mm lens will have in up close situations.
p.6 #18 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
MAubrey wrote:
Fred, I know they aren't the same designs, but is the 40mm Heliar competitive with the 50mm Heliar in sharpness? I had forgotten about this lens and my curiosity is rekindled.
I think they have distinctive looks. The 50/3.5 Heliar is a well corrected lens that outputs high resolution at center and corners. Surprisingly rendering is also nice. If it wasn't for the slight mid-field dip, I would consider it the ultimate lens for landscapes. The 40/2.8 is not as high performing with only ok corners stopped down but it has a very pleasant rendering.
The 40/2.8 was designed for the Sony but the 50/3.5 performs just as good on the Leica and Sony.
p.6 #19 · Any love for the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 PII pancake?
d.s. - from your post above:
I wrote: My goal researching pancake lenses is to gain more tools to take pictures moving through spaces with people (someday again I hope in my remaining years) without worrying those that observe this activity...as best I can within my photo budget.
You offered this good clarification: By this are you suggesting more of an indoor event or street photography focus? Available light, distance, and your desire and ability to master a chosen lens' available depth of field in a given scenario will dictate appropriate recommendations.
With that said, I get the sense that a smallish 28mm would tick more boxes.
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This is helpful. I had just started wondering if I'd missed a possible solution by being too rigid in insisting on 35mm. Of course, I had years good image results working with the 35 on the M2. OK, Can't be replicated on this body and the A7 family is never going to handle exactly like a skinny rangefinder.
The camera I am carrying is at that moment my personal image-rectangle-maker when I see things.
I'm lucky to have in hand my Fuji optical viewfinder bodies, some primes, and experience using them. Maybe add a smaller prime that won't obscure the lower right corner so I can expand my use of the OVF, but I know those two bodies and small glass upset fewer photo subjects.
I love environmental portraits and 35 or maybe 40 works there (40mm would be new and maybe "new" would add some spice. I have love working with a subject and the Fuji 35mm f1.4, for example, to capture a compelling image so my focal-length bias is is weakening anyway.
I did own the Fuji 18mm f2 for a while. Maybe seek out another. Maybe see what older/alternative primes I can shoehorn into the XPro2.
No better place to explore this than these forums. Thanks, d.s., and all the others responding to my questions above. You offered this good clarification:
