J.Marcus Photo wrote:
But why would canon not want to fix it and not have all the video shooters leave and go to Sony? That was their whole marketing campaign...
The stills side is amazing yes, but it’s literally the only camera I’ve ever shot with that can’t get me though a shoot of photo/video... that’s not good at any price. The hybrid video/still market is huge and it will overtake the photo only side very shortly.
Nobody asked for 8k.... we just want 4k that doesn’t overheat, or cools down way faster .... like every single other modern camera , even the 1dxii and 3 wont overheat in 4k 60 ...Show more →
I don’t even understand why people are defending a company for under-delivering on a product. Yes, we should all be happy to get less than what we paid for...like, what? Getting 4K that doesn’t overheat is a major plus for all owners of the camera—and I frankly don’t know why anyone would even attempt to argue against that point.
A major part of overheating has to do with the system trying to recalculate from a large sensor for 4k video since 4k video only uses a small portion of the sensor. This is why a7Siii uses 12mp sensor, so the processor can just do a basically 1 to 1 readout for video. Theoretically, you can code the software more efficiently to reduce heating. If it's a hardware issue restricted by design, venting and camera body size, then there is nothing you can do.
mdvaden wrote:
Or they're 10 times smarter than we are and ended up multiplying PR
People always complain anyway. And even Sony had overheating .. and the A7S iii does too, to some degree. But as the heating videos triple or quadruple, so to the testimonials that the R5 is an incredible machine for photos, virtually matching the A9 ii AF and A7R iv for low light performance.
That's a 400% .. maybe even 800% ... boost in positive testimonials about the main things MOST photographers were wanting beyond the EOS R. Two cards, preferred controls and a bit more in AF.
Add all that up, plus recent reports the R5 can do unlimited 4K recording with an Atomos ninja, and it looks more like your comment gets trapped.
Canon can look so small and trapped when we inflate our opinions.
Disagree here, if 4K 60p was unlimited, no heating, with card swap support like Sony, they would have killed A7siii market in one shot. And all those people going gaga over A7siii may have considered switching to Canon. Offcourse re-establishing Canon image which has been hit specially in mirrorless.
Definitely, Sony has improved and kept seperation with video and image smartly and canon would have killed A7riv as well.
onlythebrave wrote:
Disagree here, if 4K 60p was unlimited,
There's little to disagree with.. I was highlighting "photographers" .. not video-specific shooters. That's why I felt the multiplying of reviews multiplies getting the photography features announced to even more people more dedicated to stills.
As for video, different story. But if someone is looking for a 50/50 camera for video and stills including landscapes, the A7S iii may be out the window.
Regarding marketing, if I had the reigns of Canon's marketing and production, I would have released the R5 with 4K and an obvious footnote that an "optional firmware" could enable "some" 8K recording.
An early video announcement from Canon USA states that the R5 has 8K "capability". It literally does, But if they gave it an an extra option, people may have felt like they were getting a bonus instead of surprise disappointment.
lw235 wrote:
I don’t even understand why people are defending a company for under-delivering on a product. Yes, we should all be happy to get less than what we paid for...like, what? Getting 4K that doesn’t overheat is a major plus for all owners of the camera—and I frankly don’t know why anyone would even attempt to argue against that point.
I got exactly what I paid for: a stills camera that can shoot video if I ever (I probably wont) want to.
If you need to shoot endless video without overheating then buy a sony (and deal with overheating) or buy a cinema camera designed for that.
J.Marcus Photo wrote:
But why would canon not want to fix it and not have all the video shooters leave and go to Sony?
"All" the video shooters?
I've seen people even in 2019 switching from Sony to the EOS R, or just straight to the EOS R. Some more outward like the SLANTED LENS who specified why they went with the EOS R for video. Others more rank and file. But there are ample right now buying the RP, EOS R, C200s, IDX mk iii, R6 and R5 to easily blow that "All" right out of the water.
Maybe think in realistic terms like "a few" .. "some" ... "a few handfuls"
It's also conceivable that Canon could endure a few less body sales for amateur video in trade for a gain in stills photography body sales.
kezeka wrote:
I got exactly what I paid for: a stills camera that can shoot video if I ever (I probably wont) want to.
If you need to shoot endless video without overheating then buy a sony (and deal with overheating) or buy a cinema camera designed for that.
But the unpredictability of when you get locked out of your camera because you decided to shoot a couple minutes of video after spending a few hours shooting still must be concerning. And locked out for a few hours as things cool down is just not good.
I too mainly shoot stills, but have on many occasions switched to video when appropriate. I'd hate to be locked out from anymore photography because I took a few minute video.
I didn’t truly mean all but it will be a lot more than a few handfuls.
That was all before the a7siii...
you are talking to someone who is crazy enough about canon to buy 2 r5s before I’d buy a Sony a7siii iii, all the glass id need etc....
But I shouldn’t have to....
mdvaden wrote:
"All" the video shooters?
I've seen people even in 2019 switching from Sony to the EOS R, or just straight to the EOS R. Some more outward like the SLANTED LENS who specified why they went with the EOS R for video. Others more rank and file. But there are ample right now buying the RP, EOS R, C200s, IDX mk iii, R6 and R5 to easily blow that "All" right out of the water.
Maybe think in realistic terms like "a few" .. "some" ... "a few handfuls"
Unfortunately, it is very obvious why the overheating is as bad as it is based on looking at that video and it has absolutely nothing to do with using an aluminum or copper heat spreader.
There is an entire freaking PCB separating the f*cking CPU / RAM from the back of the camera where the heat could actually be dissipated. They have seriously connected the DIGIC processor and ram to thermal pads that have then been sandwiched to the back of ANOTHER PCB.
Additionally, this secondary PCB that is connected to the processor and RAM via thermal pads will help to transfer heat back and forth between the card slots and the processor.
This is a really unfortunate discovery for anyone hoping for a software or external cooling solution.
Turns out the person posting the teardown gave a very thorough breakdown of their observations and they included the comments that the CPU and RAM is being sandwiched by the PCB.
Jesse Evans wrote:
Unfortunately, it is very obvious why the overheating is as bad as it is based on looking at that video and it has absolutely nothing to do with using an aluminum or copper heat spreader.
There is an entire freaking PCB separating the f*cking CPU / RAM from the back of the camera where the heat could actually be dissipated. They have seriously connected the DIGIC processor and ram to thermal pads that have then been sandwiched to the back of ANOTHER PCB.
Additionally, this secondary PCB that is connected to the processor and RAM via thermal pads will help to transfer heat back and forth between the card slots and the processor.
This is a really unfortunate discovery for anyone hoping for a software or external cooling solution....Show more →
Yes, indeed everything is packed in there and not engineered in a way to allow circulation of air through the components. I think the R5 is even more packed than the R, based on the tear down. It's a shame they couldn't have found a different place to run that very small pcb, even if they had to break it into two PCBs with a cable. It also doesn't help that the CF Express slot with its aluminum housing is sitting right next to the processor/ram as well, just adding more heat to that area, or at least preventing a temp differential that could help pull the heat out.
EB-1 wrote:
I saw a guy disassembling a camera, but where is that conclusion about cheap parts coming from?
EBH
slowdad wrote:
Aluminum v/s copper wiring - anyone that knows anything about electrical parts knows copper is far superior
What wiring, do you mean the heat sink? Aluminum is a perfectly fine material if used properly. The problem is obviously that there if no thermal path to get the heat energy out of the camera. A copper or larger aluminum heat sink might keep it running longer, but then it would probably take longer to cool as well.
PicGuy wrote:
The analogy that comes to me is the high quality video recording for the R5 is like Ferrari advertising that a new car can reach a top speed of 250 mph. Then in small print a footnote says the gas tank can only hold a gallon of fuel and it takes hours and hours to refill it. Canon leaked the 8k capability for a reason and it was because it would catch people's attention and entice them to buy it for this feature. A lot of marketing hype went into touting the video capability of the R5 and this created elevated expectations.
From what I see, the most disturbing thing is all the 8k/4k HQ modes are compromised. To record for any sustained length forces the user to move to a far lower quality video mode. This is what would irritate me the most. Canon hasn't left the user with decent basic 4k video. Then add to this the impact of stills recording on video record time and I can understand why many are upset....Show more →
I'm sorry, but the more I read about this the more it appears to be software driven. The fact that you can run HQ 4k60 for 4 hours without a thermal shutdown on a ninja speaks volumes. Also, after shooting HQ 4K or 8K and getting a thermal shutdown, how is it that the camera can still handle standard 4K FF or Oversampled Crop 4K30 until the end of time? Isn't the camera hot? Also the fact that you can't cool the camera down faster using any means?
Interesting that the oversampled crop mode is super 35, just like the Cinema line. Wouldn't the R5 outperform the others without these limitations?
On a positive note, those who call standard 4k unusable should watch this video:
&feature=emb_logo
Apparently with a few tweaks in post you can get these files almost as good as HQ.
Canon needs to fix the software problem. I think their biggest problem now is the explanation!
chez wrote:
But the unpredictability of when you get locked out of your camera because you decided to shoot a couple minutes of video after spending a few hours shooting still must be concerning. And locked out for a few hours as things cool down is just not good.
I too mainly shoot stills, but have on many occasions switched to video when appropriate. I'd hate to be locked out from anymore photography because I took a few minute video.
As discussed earlier in this thread, you do not get locked out from using the camera when the high-spec video modes overheat. You can still take photos with the camera. And you can still shoot video in the lower-spec video modes that do not overheat (regular 4K 30 full-frame, oversampled 4K 30 APS-C crop, 1080p HD).
You are only prevented from recording additional video in the high-spec video modes (4K 30 HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, and 8K) until the camera cools down.
That's not to say that the camera doesn't have limitations for hybrid shooters. It definitely does. For example, if you regularly switch back and forth between taking photos and shooting video, you will often find that the higher-spec video modes (4K 30 HQ and up) have limited to no record time remaining. Because using the camera for taking photos also increases the camera's internal temperature, which affects available recording time in all of the high-spec video modes that can overheat.
Hybrid shooters that plan to switch back and forth between taking photos and video should generally plan on using the lower-spec (4K 30 regular and below) recording modes that don't overheat. Or plan on using an external recorder for video.
As shown in above video comparison between 4K HQ and 4K regular, the regular 4K 30 mode (which does not overheat) is far more usable in practice than many people give it credit for. And the 4K 30 APS-C crop mode (which is oversampled from a 5.1K sensor readout) is almost as detailed as the full-frame 4K HQ mode.
So where the camera is most limited for video is in the higher frame rate (60 or 120fps) 4K modes, or when shooting 8K.
TeamSpeed wrote:
I think the R5 is even more packed than the R, based on the tear down.
It's as if Canon has been infected by the Apple-esque "make it thin" obsession
They could have used a 5D-sized body and arranged the internal components in a more spacious manner. The RF L-lenses are so enormous that a larger body would probably also help with balance.
