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Archive 2020 · R5 overheating is horrible ....

  
 
WesleyStewart
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p.13 #1 · R5 overheating is horrible ....




quantumloop wrote:
This I can see would be a problem for someone in your situation. BTW, according to rumors...and it's just rumors...there is a firmware update coming that will add that 1080 120 fps.

BTW, not to get off target, but I was thinking of a short vacation at WDW soon...how were the crowds at Animal Kingdom? They must be more reasonable than pre COVID...it must be easy to get on the rides. And I bet Disney is following the health safety protocols very well.



If you can put up with wearing a mask all day except when sitting down and eating/drinking...it’s great. All of the rides are basically walk on. To not be too off topic, the photos at least on the back of my camera looked great. It’s just that I was hoping to be able to shoot photos and then switch to slow motion video for a few things here and there. Definitely not happening with the R5 with the current firmware.

I’ll be at Hollywood Studios tomorrow with the R5 as well. I can leave another update tomorrow evening on how it performed if you want.



Aug 21, 2020 at 10:13 PM
kezeka
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p.13 #2 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


quantumloop wrote:
Here's good perspective from the estimable Roger Cicala of Lens Rentals:

In the meantime, I'm waiting patiently for someone to explain to me why 8k cinema cameras have heat sinks that weigh as much as the R5, internal fans, and big ports to circulate air, but the R5 should work for just as long without any of that stuff.

Here's his total comment...he also has a few other in this discussion...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64283221


Always enjoy reading anything written by Cicala. It’s so well rationalized and succinct.

This EOS HD guy just seems like a barking mad dog in comparison. Thanks for the link, got a chuckle out of the read.



Aug 21, 2020 at 10:18 PM
quantumloop
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p.13 #3 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


WesleyStewart wrote:
If you can put up with wearing a mask all day except when sitting down and eating/drinking...it’s great. All of the rides are basically walk on. To not be too off topic, the photos at least on the back of my camera looked great. It’s just that I was hoping to be able to shoot photos and then switch to slow motion video for a few things here and there. Definitely not happening with the R5 with the current firmware.

I’ll be at Hollywood Studios tomorrow with the R5 as well. I can leave another update tomorrow evening on how
...Show more

Thanks for the reply. Yes, please post an update tomorrow. BTW, if you don't mind me asking, which non profit do you represent? Is it something like Give Kids the World? Which I have an abundance of respect for, BTW...




Aug 21, 2020 at 10:36 PM
WesleyStewart
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p.13 #4 · R5 overheating is horrible ....




quantumloop wrote:
Thanks for the reply. Yes, please post an update tomorrow. BTW, if you don't mind me asking, which non profit do you represent? Is it something like Give Kids the World? Which I have an abundance of respect for, BTW...



It’s a small nonprofit called Go.Build.Love gobuildlove.org

We give out tons of water filters, drill wells, build schools, clinics, churches, etc. A lot of it is in Haiti, Colombia, Guatemala, and some in Africa. Again, to keep it on topic, when I’m out in the middle of nowhere in Haiti on a job site...I need a hybrid camera that shoots great photos and video. The 1DXII was that until now. Had hoped to switch all the video over to 4K with the R5. If they do add 1080 120fps, that would at least be something anyway.



Aug 21, 2020 at 10:45 PM
Jesse Evans
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p.13 #5 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


And J Marcus puts the fine point on all the overheating data we have been collecting.



By tricking the camera in to not recording to internal nvram the camera takes 10 seconds to regain 5 minutes of record time. I am very confident that with the same trick and 3 minutes of rest nearly all of the original record time could be recovered.

Bad Canon.



Aug 22, 2020 at 01:22 AM
Visceral Image
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p.13 #6 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


I think for the first time ever, I completely agree with Tony Northrup in one of his videos. Hopefully, hell freezing over brings with it some cool air for our cameras.

While I do shoot Canon and admit to a supportive bias, I also feel I'm very realistic about the entire industry - I just prefer one brand over another. We've seen a lot of valuable information being discovered by many people across our little industry family. This information really do show that Canon has achieved a very important accomplishment with this camera and have decided to hold it back to fit into a desired price segment. I can't fault Canon for wanting to do that - nor should anyone else that's also a small business owner. We could always bring lights, an assistant, rent or own the best lens out there for a job - we charge more for anything we add. Why shouldn't Canon be allowed to do the same?

But this is where things get interesting. When the 90D, G7XIII, M6 Mark II were released and didn't include 24p recording frame rates, the community forced Canon to respond and correct it. There is a very strong chance we will see this happen with the R5 - because they're a business that has shareholders freaking out. Canon should -at a minimum- completely re-optimize how its countdown timer works. There is absolutely no excuse that when I take still photos I should ever get the camera hot enough to a point where I'm totally locked out of 4K HQ, 60P, 120P and 8K. We now see that heat wasn't the cause of that, but it was software. If this could be rectified and the recording modes aren't being arbitrarily locked out under normal use, we could see them turn this ship around.



Aug 22, 2020 at 01:56 AM
EB-1
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p.13 #7 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


quantumloop wrote:
Here's good perspective from the estimable Roger Cicala of Lens Rentals:

In the meantime, I'm waiting patiently for someone to explain to me why 8k cinema cameras have heat sinks that weigh as much as the R5, internal fans, and big ports to circulate air, but the R5 should work for just as long without any of that stuff.

Here's his total comment...he also has a few other in this discussion...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64283221


Roger almost always has a great, practical view of photography across numerous brands and models of cameras.

EBH



Aug 22, 2020 at 02:57 AM
alundeb
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p.13 #8 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


Jesse Evans wrote:
And J Marcus puts the fine point on all the overheating data we have been collecting.



By tricking the camera in to not recording to internal nvram the camera takes 10 seconds to regain 5 minutes of record time. I am very confident that with the same trick and 3 minutes of rest nearly all of the original record time could be recovered.

Bad Canon.


I am all in for finding out what is going on, and for Canon to improve the algorithms.

However I am not confident that I know anything about how much duty cycle is safe without destroying the camera in the long term, or that I know how the algorithm should work.



Aug 22, 2020 at 04:21 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.13 #9 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


There are issues well beyond what people think are artificial limits placed by Canon. The fact that the camera starts to heat up just sitting there. The fact that dark frame noise starts to get ugly with great, more than older cameras operating at the same times. The fact that the camera can physically warmer to the touch vs other cameras.

The disconnection of an internal battery to show how it's all software purposefully written to get people to buy syne yet to be announced cinema camera that costs 2x or 3x the price is ludicrous. There is so much to tear apart over eoshd Andrew "findings".

There are several issues at play, some can be fixed via software, some not. Many want this neat tied up in a bow answer, but the issues are too many.



Aug 22, 2020 at 04:50 AM
quantumloop
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p.13 #10 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


WesleyStewart wrote:
It’s a small nonprofit called Go.Build.Love gobuildlove.org

We give out tons of water filters, drill wells, build schools, clinics, churches, etc. A lot of it is in Haiti, Colombia, Guatemala, and some in Africa. Again, to keep it on topic, when I’m out in the middle of nowhere in Haiti on a job site...I need a hybrid camera that shoots great photos and video. The 1DXII was that until now. Had hoped to switch all the video over to 4K with the R5. If they do add 1080 120fps, that would at least be something anyway.


Thanks for doing such great work helping others! The world can use more love right now!



Aug 22, 2020 at 09:19 PM
RCicala
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p.13 #11 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


I don’t know what Canon thinks about all the R5 discussion, I get no inside stuff from Canon. I have an idea, though, because I spend a lot of time talking to various engineers from most manufacturers. When engineers show me a new product, they aren’t interested in what it doesn’t do. They are like giddy schoolchildren showing me what new widget and capability they’ve built into their latest and greatest.

Canon's most recent ‘camera that changed everything’, for those of you that don’t recall, was arguably the 5D Mk II. Because it did HD video. Not extremely capable video. It gave you a max of 4k worth over 12 minutes at 30p with little manual control over video filming. But it was full-frame, HD video, and no other SLR did that to any usable degree. You’re probably yawning, especially if you weren’t in the middle of it, because who cares, right? But I find the parallels striking.

Early 5DII reviews were pretty mixed. It only had a mono built-in mic, AI servo wasn’t great, it didn’t have a built-in flash, dynamic range rather sucked. It came out of the box with banding issues. As one reviewer put it (I’m paraphrasing a bit), a decent upgrade with a cool video function, but only time will tell if that function has more than niche usability. People quickly became fixated on what it didn’t do and, lord, did they complain about it. And while people complained, they bought it and bought it and bought it. To give you a perspective, at the time we carried maybe 30-40 copies of the most popular cameras. We quickly had 150 copies of 5DIIs; the demand made us borrow money. All while people complained constantly.

That camera changed everything and it not only sold like nobody’s business, an entire “shoot video on SLR” industry sprang up around it. At the time of the 5D II release, if you used an SLR lens to shoot video, it was probably a Nikon-mount lens. Over a couple of years (and I lived this) the SLR camera video market became almost entirely Canon mount. And the shoulder mounts, sliders, cages, and peripherals were all made with the 5D II in mind.

So, if you asked me to guess what Canon people thought about the R5's video capabilities upon release, I expect they really thought “It can shoot some 8k video; it’s going to be the 5D II all over again.” Because that’s how engineers think. This new thing we did is so awesome, people will be amazed and ecstatic. (FWIW, that's not what I think, the market is way different now.)

But for those of you thinking that Canon is freaking out, that’s not going to happen unless sales don’t meet expectations. I don’t know about you, but I sure am having trouble buying them. (Yeah, I’ve seen the “my cousin’s brother-in-law talked to a Canon rep who said there was a recall." If you believe a Canon rep has the slightest clue about stuff like that, much less said something the corporation didn’t approve beforehand, I’ve got some essential oils that cure Covid I want to sell you.)

On a positive note, the complaining about the 5D II worked over a year or so, between Canon’s releases and Magic Lantern’s hacks. It will probably work, to the degree firmware and software fixes can correct things, this time, too.



Aug 23, 2020 at 08:42 AM
qc_mountain
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p.13 #12 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


Ok then let's say that Canon did their best and bent backward for making the R5 . There is hope for the next generation of the R5 in 2025.

Francois.



Aug 23, 2020 at 09:01 AM
Andrew J
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p.13 #13 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


RCicala wrote:
I don’t know what Canon thinks about all the R5 discussion, I get no inside stuff from Canon. I have an idea, though, because I spend a lot of time talking to various engineers from most manufacturers. When engineers show me a new product, they aren’t interested in what it doesn’t do. They are like giddy schoolchildren showing me what new widget and capability they’ve built into their latest and greatest.

Canon's most recent ‘camera that changed everything’, for those of you that don’t recall, was arguably the 5D Mk II. Because it did HD video. Not extremely capable video.
...Show more

If the 5dII could only actually shoot 640x480 then I would say "great comparison"!



Aug 23, 2020 at 10:17 AM
Ziffl3
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p.13 #14 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


RCicala wrote:
I don’t know what Canon thinks about all the R5 discussion, I get no inside stuff from Canon. I have an idea, though, because I spend a lot of time talking to various engineers from most manufacturers. When engineers show me a new product, they aren’t interested in what it doesn’t do. They are like giddy schoolchildren showing me what new widget and capability they’ve built into their latest and greatest.

Canon's most recent ‘camera that changed everything’, for those of you that don’t recall, was arguably the 5D Mk II. Because it did HD video. Not extremely capable video.
...Show more

I hear you. Good stuff.

One question.... why no 1080P 120 or 240 FPS?
They ran out of memory or on board memory to store the code?

-Mark




Aug 23, 2020 at 01:10 PM
RCicala
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p.13 #15 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


Ziffl3 wrote:
I hear you. Good stuff.

One question.... why no 1080P 120 or 240 FPS?
They ran out of memory or on board memory to store the code?

-Mark



Mark, I guess that's kind of my point. They're all about "look what we did" and often just forget what they 'coulda'.



Aug 23, 2020 at 03:27 PM
Andrew J
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p.13 #16 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


This guy does a review saying not to talk about overheating but guess what?

?t=551



Aug 24, 2020 at 09:18 PM
snapsy
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p.13 #17 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


FYI, someone found a new variation of the battery-pull workaround that doesn't lose any of the video file and can be applied even after the camera has reached thermal shutdown. It also works with V1.1:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64336811

I've written a Canomate script that automates it the clock-setting portion of the procedure:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=24827.msg230542#msg230542

It also works on iPhone and iPads with the Pythonista app:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=24827.msg230548#msg230548



Sep 06, 2020 at 07:03 PM
Dj R
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p.13 #18 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


Marcus are you using ibis all the time with R5-R6 for stills? Mechanical or electronic 1st curtain? When you pixel peep, are you content?

I feel like the ibis was less intrusive with my nikons. But I’m not sure yet. Need to put more mileage on.



Sep 07, 2020 at 06:31 AM
J.Marcus Photo
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p.13 #19 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


Hey! Yes I never have turned it off yet. 1st curtain mechanical. I haven’t seen anything weird when pixel peeping.
What are you seeing?

Dj R wrote:
Marcus are you using ibis all the time with R5-R6 for stills? Mechanical or electronic 1st curtain? When you pixel peep, are you content?

I feel like the ibis was less intrusive with my nikons. But I’m not sure yet. Need to put more mileage on.




Sep 07, 2020 at 11:29 AM
Dj R
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p.13 #20 · R5 overheating is horrible ....


J.Marcus Photo wrote:
Hey! Yes I never have turned it off yet. 1st curtain mechanical. I haven’t seen anything weird when pixel peeping.
What are you seeing?



This



14:10 In



Sep 16, 2020 at 03:02 PM
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