guyharrison wrote:
This an unbelievable flaw. I use a camera in an underwater housing and regularly went back and forth between photo and video. So if I shoot photos while diving I will be cut to a few minutes of video. as the camera is "always on" in the housing. Then, if I shoot "too much" video all image making is done for the remainder of the dive. And, worst of all, I don't know when the shutdown will happen if I am back in stills mode?
This is not entirely accurate. If you are recording video in one of the video modes that overheats (8K, 4K120, 4K60, or 4K30 HQ) and the camera reaches its thermal limit and shuts down, you can turn the camera back on and still use it for taking photos. You can also use it for recording video in any of the video modes that are not thermally restricted (4K30 regular or any of the HD modes).
You can continue to take photos or record video in those lower-spec video modes indefinitely because these operations do not overheat the camera in the same way. The camera does not shutdown from overheating in photo mode or the lower-spec video modes (regular 4K 30 and below).
So you are never really locked out from capturing either photo or video images entirely when the high-spec video overheating happens. You are only prevented from further video recording in the higher-spec video modes that do overheat.
Incidentally, the higher-spec video recording modes that can overheat, all include a countdown timer that gives an indication of how long you can record for in that mode before hitting the thermal limit. The camera's reported times are somewhat conservative and all of the tests I have seen so far indicate that you can record at least as long as the camera says you can. So you are never really at risk of unexpected shutdown, even in the higher-spec video modes.
In the lower-spec video recording modes, this video timer always starts at 29:59 which is the longest you can record in a single clip. After recording a clip it immediately resets to 29:59 for the next clip since there is no thermal shutdown limit in these modes.
Now the more significant issue for some applications, is that it takes a long time for the camera to cool down enough that the higher-spec video modes are re-enabled for long duration recording. A brief cool down period might only get you an additional 5 minutes or so of higher-spec video recording. And if you keep using the camera to take photos or capture lower-spec video during this time (rather than shutting the camera off), the camera will not really cool down much, so it will take even longer to re-enable the high-spec video modes. It seems that you need to turn off the camera for about 30 minutes to re-enable any significant recording time in the high-spec video modes, and probably need to shut it down for closer to an hour or so to get back to the full thermal record limits for the high-spec video formats.
If you want to shoot a lot of 8K or 4K 120 video over the course of a few hours, the R5 is probably not a good choice. These modes can only be recorded internally and the thermal limits of the camera prevent recording a significant duration video (whether one long clip or many shorter clips) in these modes.
If you want to record a lot of 4K 60 or 4K 30 HQ video over the course of several hours or an entire day, this can be done with relatively few limitations if you use an external video recorder. Internal recording in these modes you will still be fairly limited although not quite as severely as in 8K or 4K 120.
If you plan on shooting a mix of still photos and internally recorded video, and you typically leave the camera on switching back and forth between photos and video, you should plan on shooting video in the regular 4K 30 or HD video modes. Internal recording times in the higher-spec video modes will be very limited with this kind of continuous operation of the camera.
davedv wrote:
This is not entirely accurate. If you are recording video in one of the video modes that overheats (8K, 4K120, 4K60, or 4K30 HQ) and the camera reaches its thermal limit and shuts down, you can turn the camera back on and still use it for taking photos. You can also use it for recording video in any of the video modes that are not thermally restricted (4K30 regular or any of the HD modes).
Depends on the housing. My underwater housing doesn't have a On/Off switch among it's choices. If you jump in the water and forgot to turn your camera on, you get to get out of the water, open the housing and turn it on.
Additionally, those things hold heat like no other. In a normal underwater session, I'll run 200-250 images in about 35-45 minutes - some heat but not a ton. I then follow that up with 6-7 10-12 second 4k60 Crop clips. When you get out and open the case, you can feel the heat. The card is pretty warm too (it will get your attention if you touch it).
As much as I would love to to have 4k120, the heating issue is a total no-go for me knowing how I'd use it.
davedv wrote:
You can continue to take photos or record video in those lower-spec video modes indefinitely because these operations do not overheat the camera in the same way. The camera does not shutdown from overheating in photo mode or the lower-spec video modes (regular 4K 30 and below).
So you are never really locked out from capturing either photo or video images entirely when the high-spec video overheating happens. You are only prevented from further video recording in the higher-spec video modes that do overheat.
Actually this is false. There are 3 overheating indicators in the camera, 2 are for still photography; of these, one is a warning, the next one is a crucial warning, after that there is a shutdown during stills. It is covered in the manual and talks about how if the camera starts to overheat during stills, that the IQ of the images will start to degrade, and one should shoot at slower speeds to help cool down the camera.
So yes indeed, the temperatures could reach levels to prevent any use of the camera, stills or otherwise, check the manual for more info.
orlandoom wrote:
Seems like it would be better to return the R5 and put that money toward a dedicated video camera.
But in one way the Op is right why Canon would advertise and sell those at a premium price and stating that they can do it in 8K but in real life is having difficulty's of achieving those goals in a steady pace ??
It is like buying a Porsche Gt 3 and not be able to go faster than a Prius .
qc_mountain wrote:
But in one way the Op is right why Canon would advertise and sell those at a premium price and stating that they can do it in 8K but in real life is having difficulty's of achieving those goals in a steady pace ??
It is like buying a Porsche Gt 3 and not be able to go faster than a Prius .
Francois .
Not quite. Canon themselves stated the limits on usages of 8K and the other higher data rate modes. If anyone tries for anything longer, that's on them.
If you are going to go by the car analogy, then it's like Porsche telling you it will go so far on a tank of gas, but you being outraged it won't go longer.
I don't get why people at this point are moaning and groaning about limits as if it's some surprise or Canon hid it from them. It's well known. Do you homework. If you can make the higher data rate video features work, then great. Some are. When the Canon 5D II came out it had a 12 min limit but it basically created this whole notion of a hybrid camera.
But if it's not for someone, that's fine too...they just shouldn't act so outraged. Canon has made an offer; one can either accept it or not but we don't need to know the drama.
qc_mountain wrote:
But in one way the Op is right why Canon would advertise and sell those at a premium price and stating that they can do it in 8K but in real life is having difficulty's of achieving those goals in a steady pace ??
It is like buying a Porsche Gt 3 and not be able to go faster than a Prius .
Francois .
This is a misconception of this camera. It is not $3899 because it has fancy video. This is the price range of a 5 Series Canon camera. It's $3899 because it's a 45mp camera that can shoot 12/20fps. I'll grant that Canon marketed this heavily but if it didn't have 4K HQ or 8K it would still be cost the same.
All that said, I don't think this is an overheating problem as much as a problem with coding. The fact that you can shoot 4K60 for 4 hours with an external recorder with the camera still cool to the touch tells me this can be fixed. Time will tell. I suspect that they knew this and were working on a fix at launch but didn't quite get it done by launch date (probably due to COVID disruptions) and that's why we got such limited quantities. I expect to see the next batch ship with updated firmware with significant increases in record time and reductions in cool down. For me, it doesn't matter. I'm buying this for stills
In any case, the limitations were clearly documented. It's not like buying a Porsche with Prius speeds... It's like complaining that your 4 cyl pickup can't pull your yacht. Nobody said it would.
J.Marcus Photo wrote:
I did a test today. From a cold start , Delkin 512 card. 4k 120 , 14 minutes total , as expected. 6 hours later , only 5 more minutes I can record!! Unacceptable!
On my photo shoot 2 days ago I shot 45 minutes or so photos inside at 68 degrees. Camera was turned off in between set ups.
Went to shoot some 4k 120 and I had 4 minutes on the clock.
Totally not going to fly
Hopefully the tilta fan will work if canon can’t fix this to make it an acceptable feature.
1080 120 must be added as well!
The footage was incredible, I’m just not going to buy multiple bodies to use it....Show more →
Were you using the battery that came with the camera or an older battery from a prior camera?
Bernie_King wrote:
It's not like buying a Porsche with Prius speeds... It's like complaining that your 4 cyl pickup can't pull your yacht. Nobody said it would.
But that’s the thing, no 4 cylinder is marketed as being able to pull a yacht. This analogy would be relevant if people were getting 8K from the camera via some hack or aftermarket firmware like MagicLantern but they’re not. The camera is marketed and sold with capabilities that cause it to become partially unusable for long periods of time. I’m personally not interested in the video capabilities of the camera at all so I don’t really care if it overheats or not but I also can’t fault people who bought the camera and were misled into thinking it would do everything Canon said it would without a hitch.
I agree to an extent.... I had no plans of using this camera any other way than previous cameras.... shoot some video , not having to worry about how many photos I’ve taken... how long the camera has been on... being able to leave it on while I frame shots without recording... and record for the stated periods.
I could get by with 14 minutes of 4k 120 , but when I only get 3 minutes , that’s not going to work for anyone on the planet.
Tony5787 wrote:
But that’s the thing, no 4 cylinder is marketed as being able to pull a yacht. This analogy would be relevant if people were getting 8K from the camera via some hack or aftermarket firmware like MagicLantern but they’re not. The camera is marketed and sold with capabilities that cause it to become partially unusable for long periods of time. I’m personally not interested in the video capabilities of the camera at all so I don’t really care if it overheats or not but I also can’t fault people who bought the camera and were misled into thinking it would do everything Canon said it would without a hitch. ...Show more →
J.Marcus Photo wrote:
The new battery that came with it.
6 hours later does not sound right; a sensor in your camera may be defective. Canon's recovery time for 8k30 was only 20 minutes to regain 8 minutes. I would suggest you retest on 8k30 until over heating and then wait 20 minutes and see if you get something like 8 minutes. If not I would begin to think you body has a defective heat sensor or similar.
1. The R6 gets just as hot.
2. Shooting stills to SD gets the camera hot.
3. Take out all cards and batteries and leave the doors open, camera takes forever to cool off
The card getting hot isn't the cause, but also not helpful either.
1. The R6 gets just as hot.
2. Shooting stills to SD gets the camera hot.
3. Take out all cards and batteries and leave the doors open, camera takes forever to cool off
The card getting hot isn't the cause, but also not helpful either.
Thank you so much!! Man they get so hot , you can’t even hold them! It’s weird that after 2 minutes they are cool to the touch, put it back in and , no recovery time helped. Maybe canon just has a timer they can tweak .... I hope so!
Dj R wrote:
Fan of your work on YouTube
I Am a stills only guy. And even still, I can’t believe how hot the cfe card gets. Curious if that is somehow linked to the entire issue.
TeamSpeed wrote:
Actually this is false. There are 3 overheating indicators in the camera, 2 are for still photography; of these, one is a warning, the next one is a crucial warning, after that there is a shutdown during stills. It is covered in the manual and talks about how if the camera starts to overheat during stills, that the IQ of the images will start to degrade, and one should shoot at slower speeds to help cool down the camera.
So yes indeed, the temperatures could reach levels to prevent any use of the camera, stills or otherwise, check the manual for more info....Show more →
Yes, I am well aware of the 3 different overheating indicators in the camera as described in the manual, I was discussing things more from a practical and real-world standpoint.
And so far there have been very few (if any) reports of the the camera overheating in stills mode and displaying one of the thermometer-icon only warnings indicating a general camera overheat problem. There was one report of this discussed in this thread, but it seemed to be due to a battery problem rather than an environmental issue: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1657029
By and large, the overheating warning that people are seeing in real-world usage is the video overheating warning (which has a video camera icon next to the thermometer icon). This warning does not prevent usage of the stills modes. Nor does it seem to lead to the more general camera overheating warning (thermometer-icon only) being displayed.
Incidentally, the original EOS R has the exact same red and white thermometer icon warnings described in its manual:
So this is not something new or unique to the R5. I am not aware of any significant reports of people encountering the general camera overheating warning in real world usage of the EOS R in the nearly 2 years that it has been on the market.
And while the R5 has not been around long enough to know for sure yet, the early indications are that the general camera overheating warnings (thermometer-only icon) will similarly be very rare.
So unless we get more reports of stills overheating as a common occurrence with the R5, I think my earlier description was pretty accurate in terms of what features of the camera people can reasonably expect to use.
The R cannot be compared to the new cameras. It doesn't have the throughout, AF speed, IBIS, or sensor readout speed that the new cameras have. There are several folks that have seen these indicators kick in where they did not with the R, two of them being wedding shooters. We are going to see this come up more and more as more units make it into photographers hands.
There are many waiting on the sidelines now as well to see how this plays out and what Canon will do about it.
Tony5787 wrote:
But that’s the thing, no 4 cylinder is marketed as being able to pull a yacht. This analogy would be relevant if people were getting 8K from the camera via some hack or aftermarket firmware like MagicLantern but they’re not. The camera is marketed and sold with capabilities that cause it to become partially unusable for long periods of time. I’m personally not interested in the video capabilities of the camera at all so I don’t really care if it overheats or not but I also can’t fault people who bought the camera and were misled into thinking it would do everything Canon said it would without a hitch. ...Show more →
The analogy that comes to me is the high quality video recording for the R5 is like Ferrari advertising that a new car can reach a top speed of 250 mph. Then in small print a footnote says the gas tank can only hold a gallon of fuel and it takes hours and hours to refill it. Canon leaked the 8k capability for a reason and it was because it would catch people's attention and entice them to buy it for this feature. A lot of marketing hype went into touting the video capability of the R5 and this created elevated expectations.
From what I see, the most disturbing thing is all the 8k/4k HQ modes are compromised. To record for any sustained length forces the user to move to a far lower quality video mode. This is what would irritate me the most. Canon hasn't left the user with decent basic 4k video. Then add to this the impact of stills recording on video record time and I can understand why many are upset.
Dj R wrote:
I can’t believe how hot the cfe card gets. Curious if that is somehow linked to the entire issue.
I try 2x 10 minutes video with Nikon Z6 4k 30 ( camera gets very warm )
- CFExpress Sandisk 128GB Card get hot
- XQD Sony 120 GB Card get very warm ( but I think less hot than CFExpress... I must repeat this test again to see if this is really a case )
GoPRO 8 at 4k 30 get so hot that I can't believe is still operating
