It is indeed hot and I can see the frustration of hybrid shooters that want to take advantage of 120fps or hq mode. Hopefully further software tweaks might offer more leeway. A tip shooting 120 fps: it is slowed down 4 times in camera (120 to 30 fps) so usually, taking clips of say just 4 seconds will get you a clip of 16 seconds to edit in your timeline, which should be more than enough if you plan to edit a project using multiple shots ( unless you love boring video’s with way too long shots without cuts).
So the video side is a bit wonky (missing clog 3 too); that said the stills side is awesome, and no overheating issues unless you plan to mix it with video. Shot a 3 hr gig yesterday in about 34 degrees celcius, 1700 shots and no issues (and only using one battery which pleasantly surprised me)
Tony5787 wrote:
But that’s the thing, no 4 cylinder is marketed as being able to pull a yacht. This analogy would be relevant if people were getting 8K from the camera via some hack or aftermarket firmware like MagicLantern but they’re not. The camera is marketed and sold with capabilities that cause it to become partially unusable for long periods of time. I’m personally not interested in the video capabilities of the camera at all so I don’t really care if it overheats or not but I also can’t fault people who bought the camera and were misled into thinking it would do everything Canon said it would without a hitch. ...Show more →
Exactly that is marketing fluff and they are using FUD to sell their cameras .
Bernie_King said:
This is a misconception of this camera. It is not $3899 because it has fancy video. This is the price range of a 5 Series Canon camera. It's $3899 because it's a 45mp camera that can shoot 12/20fps. I'll grant that Canon marketed this heavily but if it didn't have 4K HQ or 8K it would still be cost the same.
This statement flies in the face of the R&D, manufacturing and coding involved in trying to deliver an 8K video feature in a (relatively) small, weather sealed body. A lot of research would have gone into this. Material choices would be different in an attempt to both deal with and tolerate the high heat. A a lot of effort (spec'ing, coding, testing) went into the firmware because of video (and given the heat issue, a whole heck of lot more effort is no doubt happening and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future). And there is a reason Canon promoted the heck out of the 8K video (almost to the point of not promoting the stills side of the camera). Desirable and unique attributes drive sales and command a premium. So yes, this camera costs more because of 8k video; both because of cost to make and because of perceived value to the buyer.
By putting so many eggs in the video basket, they had to make decisions they probably wouldn't have otherwise. Two quickly pop to mind. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have made the sensor at least 50.6MP to match the 5Ds, or gone even a little higher to say they surpassed it, if it wasn't for 8k video. I would also think they would have gone with two UHS-II card slots if not for 8k video, instead of having two different card slots with one of them being the uber expensive CFexpress (instead of the relatively cheap UHS-II).
They also took a huge risk from a marketing and sales perspective. Based on the posts here, the AI AF is amazing. The (first for them) IBIS sounds pretty awesome too. It is stunning that they didn't go full throttle promoting these points, along with 12/20 ss. Instead it was all video, all the time. And now they are taking heat (pun intended) for the issues with video on this camera.
Heat and electronics do not mix. Heat shortens lifespans of equipment- This is a well known fact. We all know what happens with speed lights from rapid firing use which causes heat abuse to flash tubes. They fry flash tubes resulting in expensive repairs and speed lights slow down and Misfire for regular use....This is going to happen with these new released cameras...count on it
Canon need to recall and fix the issue
read at fred miranda- THIS IS A BIG BIG DEAL that needs to be factored in your purchase decision
What's lacking in the conversation: perspective. No other camera of this type does 8K. If you don't like it then don't use it. But you have about 20 min to use. That's a lot. The Fuji XT4 overheats 4K60 in 15min. All Sony's overheat except for their new one that is made for video. The original 5D Mark II did 12 min of HD.
The R5 can do 4K 24 and 30 and HD just fine. It is also perhaps the best overall photographic camera out there.
Here's what we also know: the point of problem is with the memory cards, especially the CF Express Type B card. We know if not using a card but an external recorder there is no problem. It records for hours. So no problem at the sensor or processor.
CF Express Cards gets hot under intense use no matter what. One guy had it get hot just downloading in a card reader to his PC. Many are saying that Canon is probably conservative in their heat limits to protect the camera.
Makes me wonder about the new Sony A7SIII, which uses CF Express Type A. These are slower than Type B but still blazing fast and have one less lane to transmit data. Should heat up about the same. If they are allowing to record for longer this could put the Sony camera at risk for internal damage over time.
One user put it that he would rather have Canon uses conservative limits to protect the camera than not.
deepbluejh wrote:
I think we just need to come to terms with the fact that this just isn't a (4K) video camera, no matter how much people want it to be.
The 786 threads about the R5 overheating are getting tiring by now. The point has been belabored.
Saying that the R5 isn't a 4K video camera is taking things a bit too far.
You can shoot internally up to 4K 30 full frame (regular mode) or up to 4K 30 APS-C crop mode (oversampled from a 5.1K sensor readout) without risk of overheating. And if you use an external recorder, you can shoot up to 4K 60 with relatively few time limitations.
So you absolutely could use it as a 4K video camera, if desired.
Now, you could say that the R5 isn't an 8K video camera, or isn't a 4K 120 video camera, since the limitations in these modes make them impractical for a lot of shooting.
Your point about the endless discussions concerning video overheating issues are definitely valid though. People need to understand what the limitations of the camera are and decide if those limitations are workable for what they want to shoot. And then come to a conclusion about whether the camera is the right tool for them.
There are already professional video shooters that are using the R5 on real world shoots as a B-camera and inter-cutting it with footage from the $16000 C500 Mark II. And there have been examples of single scenes shot in mixture of the R5's 4K and 8K video modes with plenty of cuts back and forth between the two. For many shooting situations, the push for higher resolutions is kind of overblown anyhow. The most widely used cinema camera for high-end movies over the past 10 years is probably the Arri Alexa which "only" shoots 2.8K video.
So once you find out what a camera can do well (and there are many things that the R5 can do well), then use it for those purposes. Trying to use a camera extensively to do things that it does not do well, is not really very productive.
The Sony A7S III has to process much less data to create the 4K video since it has a 12 MP sensor. The R5 has 90 million photosites which are read and processed to the 8MP of the 4K video in HQ mode. The card is not the only generator of heat inside the camera; the sensor, processors and battery also generate heat. I would not make guesses about the longevity of the Sony's electronics just because it is less prone to display an overheating warning. The camera simply has much less work to do to achieve the 4K video so it is natural that it would be able to do this without overheating so easily.
The A7SIII is a perfect example of a camera that as designed to function exclusively as a video camera, with the ability to shoot stills in a pinch. The R5 is exactly the opposite philosophy.
davedv wrote:
You can shoot internally up to 4K 30 full frame (regular mode) or up to 4K 30 APS-C crop mode (oversampled from a 5.1K sensor readout) without risk of overheating. And if you use an external recorder, you can shoot up to 4K 60 with relatively few time limitations.
The problem when using these modes is the video quality drops substantially. These lower quality modes are worse than 4k 24/30 from other cameras from what I have seen in reviews. IMO, Canon should have worked a solution that provided better video quality for 4k 24/30/60 and left 8k to their dedicated cinema line of cameras.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
The Sony A7S III has to process much less data to create the 4K video since it has a 12 MP sensor. The R5 has 90 million photosites which are read and processed to the 8MP of the 4K video in HQ mode. The card is not the only generator of heat inside the camera; the sensor, processors and battery also generate heat. I would not make guesses about the longevity of the Sony's electronics just because it is less prone to display an overheating warning. The camera simply has much less work to do to achieve the 4K video so it is natural that it would be able to do this without overheating so easily....Show more →
Good points. But there are two issues at play: the heat generated by the camera in its imaging pipeline and the heat generated in writing to the card.
The fact remains that the CF Express Card Type B gets very hot in use...and not just in the R5. Canon may just have software that sets a conservative limit on recording time to prevent internal damage.
The CF Express Card Type A may get about as hot in use. It still is very fast transferring -- half as fast but using half as many lanes. So it seems that it would get hot. We don't know yet but when it ships we will see.
This has nothing to do with which camera is using the card. Large amounts of 4K video are large amounts. If CF Express Type A gets hot transferring large amounts of data, it will do so with Sony A7SIII or any equipment that uses it. Just like CF Express Type B gets hot using it in other lower MP cameras and even with card reader.
The heat generated by the camera by sensor and processor is a different issue altogether. And here is where the use of 12MP sensor by Sony does help prevent heat. But we have numerous reports showing that if the R5 is used without a card recording to external source like Atomos Ninja there are virtually no limits...it records for hours. So the R5 does not have a problem with sensor/processor pipeline generating too much heat.
One more video confirming that it is using a card in the R5 that triggers the heat warning:
So to reiterate my point: the R5 seems to do a remarkable job not having a heat problem at these high data rates at the point of sensor and processor. It will record for hours to external recorder. Only when you use the memory card does it shut down with lower limits.
And it seems prudent to ask if the Sony A7SIII, which has been held up as having not so many limits (it still seems to have problems with recording in the hot sun), will also have the same heat buildup with the Type A cards and what the long term effect may be. Only testing will show that.
But it begs the larger question of the implications of using CF Express of any type in smaller mirrorless bodies.
quantumloop wrote:
Good points. But there are two issues at play: the heat generated by the camera in its imaging pipeline and the heat generated in writing to the card.
The fact remains that the CF Express Card Type B gets very hot in use...and not just in the R5. Canon may just have software that sets a conservative limit on recording time to prevent internal damage.
The CF Express Card Type A may get about as hot in use. It still is very fast transferring -- half as fast but using half as many lanes. So it seems that it would get hot. We don't know yet but when it ships we will see.
This has nothing to do with which camera is using the card. Large amounts of 4K video are large amounts. If CF Express Type A gets hot transferring large amounts of data, it will do so with Sony A7SIII or any equipment that uses it. Just like CF Express Type B gets hot using it in other lower MP cameras and even with card reader.
The heat generated by the camera by sensor and processor is a different issue altogether. And here is where the use of 12MP sensor by Sony does help prevent heat. But we have numerous reports showing that if the R5 is used without a card recording to external source like Atomos Ninja there are virtually no limits...it records for hours. So the R5 does not have a problem with sensor/processor pipeline generating too much heat.
One more video confirming that it is using a card in the R5 that triggers the heat warning:
So to reiterate my point: the R5 seems to do a remarkable job not having a heat problem at these high data rates at the point of sensor and processor. It will record for hours to external recorder. Only when you use the memory card does it shut down with lower limits.
And it seems prudent to ask if the Sony A7SIII, which has been held up as having not so many limits (it still seems to have problems with recording in the hot sun), will also have the same heat buildup with the Type A cards and what the long term effect may be. Only testing will show that.
But it begs the larger question of the implications of using CF Express of any type in smaller mirrorless bodies.
I would venture to guess it's not the use of the card causing the overheating but the video compression logic in DIGIC when doing internal recording. Sending the video out to HDMI bypasses that entire path.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
The temperature rise is cumulative, all the sources of heat inside the camera (sensor, memory card, processor and battery) contribute to it.
...and the only one that can be taken out of the process of recording video is the memory card in the camera.
J.Marcus Photo wrote:
I wonder if switching cards out would help? Probably not since 6 hours later with no cards in camera it’s still “too hot”
I think that switching the cards before they get hot would extend the recording time, the heat is coming from a lot of places. I was also wondering if a grip would sink some of the heat. I think that the best that can be done is to do little things that tweak the recording time, but eventually, it will overheat at the higher bit rates. A reasonable goal might be to get long time ability to use 4K HQ.
If packing ice around the body and opening all flaps and doors and removing cards and batteries don't make the camera cool down any faster, then that is a huge clue where the overheating comes from and what can't be done to help.
The only problem is, the card is incredibly hot after a 20 second burst of 4k 120. You would be changing cards every shot. Plus the other day when it said I had 4 minutes to record after only taking photos for a bit, the photos are only being g written to my sd card, so the cfexpress card was just sitting dormant.
scalesusa wrote:
I think that switching the cards before they get hot would extend the recording time, the heat is coming from a lot of places. I was also wondering if a grip would sink some of the heat. I think that the best that can be done is to do little things that tweak the recording time, but eventually, it will overheat at the higher bit rates. A reasonable goal might be to get long time ability to use 4K HQ.
I haven't tried the r5 it but I've been using just a regular small (desk?) fan to cool hdd. Works wonders. Even if I don't use the fan the hdd's cool off in minutes, say under half hour. I suppose you can't have the fan on due to the noise screwing up the video sound but as soon as you turn off the camera maybe put it under a fan?
I'm not saying you're giving an inaccurate report but what you're saying isn't adding up so I'm not sure what is going on. I just don't see how it could stay that hot so long? FWIW I don't see that on hdd's anyway. I might throw it in the fridge being careful on the condensation?
OK just saw your post on hot card maybe pull it or change cards? Pitb but Even your hand can be a heat sink of sorts. Maybe tape copper or aluminum somewhere to dissipate the heat? Long shot but it might help. Kinda doubt it but might be worth trying
AmbientMike wrote:
I haven't tried the r5 it but I've been using just a regular small (desk?) fan to cool hdd. Works wonders. Even if I don't use the fan the hdd's cool off in minutes, say under half hour. I suppose you can't have the fan on due to the noise screwing up the video sound but as soon as you turn off the camera maybe put it under a fan?
I'm not saying you're giving an inaccurate report but what you're saying isn't adding up so I'm not sure what is going on. I just don't see how it could stay that hot so long? FWIW I don't see that on hdd's anyway. I might throw it in the fridge being careful on the condensation?
OK just saw your post on hot card maybe pull it or change cards? Pitb but Even your hand can be a heat sink of sorts. Maybe tape copper or aluminum somewhere to disdupdate the heat? Long shot but it might help. Kinda doubt it but might be worth trying ...Show more →
I have now read or watched at least five reviews that tried different methods of cooling the camera faster. Nothing seems to work. I've seen fans tried, opening the card slot doors, battery doors, screen flipped out etc and recovery time seems to barely change. I don't recall seeing anyone throw it in the fridge/freezer yet It is also interesting that the camera's overheat time limits aren't affected much by ambient temperatures. People are getting very similar results shooting indoors with AC vs outdoors in full sun baking the camera. This is unlike other overheating cameras where ambient temp and direct sun can make a huge difference compared to indoor climate controlled environments.
It is also interesting that the camera's overheat time limits aren't affected much by ambient temperatures. People are getting very similar results shooting indoors with AC vs outdoors in full sun baking the camera. This is unlike other overheating cameras where ambient temp and direct sun can make a huge difference compared to indoor climate controlled environments.