19ms = 0.019 seconds. 1 divided by 0.019 = 52.63 so 53. (put this in the denominator with one in the numerator) = 1/53 sec
If the R5 is actually 1/60 that isn't bad for 45mp but most are assuming it will be slower than the R6. The R which is reportedly 80ms puts it at about 1/12.
If this is accurate then nowhere near an A9. Hmnnn
Zenon Char wrote:
I got this math from another site.
19ms = 0.019 seconds. 1 divided by 0.019 = 52.63 so 53. (put this in the denominator with one in the numerator) = 1/53 sec
If the R5 is actually 1/60 that isn't bad for 45mp but most are assuming it will be slower than the R6. The R which is reportedly 80ms puts it at about 1/12.
Maxxus46 wrote:
If this is accurate then nowhere near an A9. Hmnnn
Yeah I think it is pretty obvious now that the scan speed is no where near an A9. The A7SIII isn't even near an A9 and it has less rolling shutter in video than the R5.
arbitrage wrote:
The issue with their test is they used an older 500/4 lens and that lens doesn't support the full 12FPS MS mode. So what you see in those examples is one of the slower FPS modes. From other videos I've seen the 12FPS mode looks a lot less laggy due to quick frame insertion but there must be lag still there being hidden by the frame insertion. It is hard to know how it will really be unless you get your hands on one. There are FM users now saying that it is not difficult to track BIF. Chimping mentioned in the R5 review thread that panning with both MS and ES worked for him....Show more →
Yes, that’s true - I have no problem panning using either MS or ES. If there’s frame insertion going on it’s irrelevant to me; the pan looks fine, and I don’t lose my subject while tracking.
EDIT:
The lenses I’ve now used with no appreciable lag are:
RF 85 f/1.2L
EF 600mm f/4L II with & without the 2x III
EF 300mm f/2.8L II
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L II
arbitrage wrote:
Yeah I think it is pretty obvious now that the scan speed is no where near an A9. The A7SIII isn't even near an A9 and it has less rolling shutter in video than the R5.
You don't need to be panning to distort fast moving wings. Hummer wings will distort and even come apart at certain positions of their movement. That said, even on the slow scanning Z50 and RIV that position shown in those examples don't usually show any distortion because they have been captured at the furthest extension where the wings pause for a split second. It will be shots during the middle of the wing beat where one would see if there is significant distortion or not.
I'm going to post on that DPR thread and ask if he has any shots from the other wing positions.
It is also interesting that the Crop mode may be scanning faster than FF. If FF is 1/60 then crop mode may be fast enough to avoid distortion in most shots.
arbitrage wrote:
You don't need to be panning to distort fast moving wings. Hummer wings will distort and even come apart at certain positions of their movement. That said, even on the slow scanning Z50 and RIV that position shown in those examples don't usually show any distortion because they have been captured at the furthest extension where the wings pause for a split second. It will be shots during the middle of the wing beat where one would see if there is significant distortion or not.
I'm going to post on that DPR thread and ask if he has any shots from the other wing positions.
It is also interesting that the Crop mode may be scanning faster than FF. If FF is 1/60 then crop mode may be fast enough to avoid distortion in most shots....Show more →
Would be a nice option to show ES, EFCS and MS in the exif data.
Canon representative says the R5 has a brand new sensor with superior read speeds and the R6 has a sensor with excellent read speeds, based on the 1dx III's sensor but not totally the same. My understanding of that would be the R5 sensor is a higher read speed than 1dx III. Power point slide show 1:47 mark.
Once again if someone can just post a series of feeding hummers and not cherry pick the extended wing positions that would help a lot. Trying that in APS-C mode and FF mode would also help to see if APS-C does give a faster speed.
This is what I'm looking for. Notice that even on the 1/20s scan speed (FF compressed, 1/30 is possible in APS-C compressed) of the RIV that the full forward wing beat is mostly distortion free (other than some combing artifacts on the upper edge of the far wing).
Dely wrote:
This is a very good review of the Canon R5 where your question about blackout was addressed. According to the Reviewer’s comments:
“No Blackout. None!!!“…….“The R5’s autofocus system surpasses the A9II’s, especially the animal eye autofocus. It’s amazing. I was shocked...”
Note: The Reviewer was recently shooting with a Sony A9II. He also previously shot with 1DX MKII so he provides a very well rounded viewpoint.
Credit goes to @Tony5787@ for originally posting this video
Minute 30:20. EVF wake up time which I don't like about the R. Is he kinda contradicting himself? He mentions the EVF shutting off to save battery power is good. Later he says to leave the LCD on and it switches between it and the LCD. Is that not good for saving battery power?
Personally I don't care about battery power. I'll get a few spares if I need to. I'm more interested in the EVF wake up speed. Does anyone have a R to compare. Is the R5 better? Either way when I'm birding I'll just leave the time out speeds at the maximum settings for quick EVF response time.
arbitrage wrote:
This is what I'm looking for. Notice that even on the 1/20s scan speed (FF compressed, 1/30 is possible in APS-C compressed) of the RIV that the full forward wing beat is mostly distortion free (other than some combing artifacts on the upper edge of the far wing).
Well if that kind of distortion is what you're looking for, why not just stay with Sony then.
It does look kinda pretty in an abstract kind of way.
Seriously though. You say "not to cherry pick the extended wing position" and yet you are specifically looking to "cherry pick" for the worst. Is there something special about humming bird pictures with their wings pointed straight out that you find especially pleasing? My preference is to see them in the up or down position for more details and mass.
I think you need to step back and look at the big picture here Geoff. Don't get hung up on the A9II read speed and think it's some kind of gift of the gods and the only way ANY MILC can achieve fast action photos. The results and reports we are seeing from the R5 are proof that that is not the case at all.
From my first hand experiences with the R5, I can honestly say that if you can't track fast BIF and keep it in the frame due to it's slower than A9II read speed, the camera is not the problem.
I really wish you hadn't have gotten cold feet when you canceled your R5 order. I was looking forward to hearing your first hand thoughts on it in comparison to the vast collection of other bodies you have used. I know you'll be picking one up someday, but by then it'll be old news.
Zenon Char wrote:
Minute 30:20. EVF wake up time which I don't like about the R. Is he kinda contradicting himself? He mentions the EVF shutting off to save battery power is good. Later he says to leave the LCD on and it switches between it and the LCD. Is that not good for saving battery power?
Personally I don't care about battery power. I'll get a few spares if I need to. I'm more interested in the EVF wake up speed. Does anyone have a R to compare. Is the R5 better? Either way when I'm birding I'll just leave the time out speeds at the maximum settings for quick EVF response time. ...Show more →
What I got from what he's saying, is you need the lcd screen active to have the evf come on instantly when you raise the camera to your eye. I took the eos R for several test drives and that was a huge issue for birds in flight or sports action. If you need to dissipate heat why would you not give users the option to turn things on and off.
If he wanted a quick response from the evf he had to leave the lcd on, hence a trade off for battery life...
I think he has extensive experience shooting BIF and has used many many cameras. You have to realize the A9ii is still far more advanced from a sensor to EVF readout standpoint, and zero blackout is a BIG deal once you've used it you won't want to go backwards. So Canon has made a good camera...great. but dont think for a second that the tech is similar. It is not and readout speed, zero blackout and nearly zero EVF lag on A9 series does matter. The R5 may be a good camera but it is not in the same class as an A9ii....canon. will need a mirrorless 1DX to achieve this. I am not willing to sacrifice speed, acquisition and accuracy for more mpx or video features.
lighthound wrote:
Well if that kind of distortion is what you're looking for, why not just stay with Sony then.
It does look kinda pretty in an abstract kind of way.
Seriously though. You say "not to cherry pick the extended wing position" and yet you are specifically looking to "cherry pick" for the worst. Is there something special about humming bird pictures with their wings pointed straight out that you find especially pleasing? My preference is to see them in the up or down position for more details and mass.
I think you need to step back and look at the big picture here Geoff. Don't get hung up on the A9II read speed and think it's some kind of gift of the gods and the only way ANY MILC can achieve fast action photos. The results and reports we are seeing from the R5 are proof that that is not the case at all.
From my first hand experiences with the R5, I can honestly say that if you can't track fast BIF and keep it in the frame due to it's slower than A9II read speed, the camera is not the problem.
I really wish you hadn't have gotten cold feet when you canceled your R5 order. I was looking forward to hearing your first hand thoughts on it in comparison to the vast collection of other bodies you have used. I know you'll be picking one up someday, but by then it'll be old news. ...Show more →
Zenon Char wrote:
Minute 30:20. EVF wake up time which I don't like about the R. Is he kinda contradicting himself? He mentions the EVF shutting off to save battery power is good. Later he says to leave the LCD on and it switches between it and the LCD. Is that not good for saving battery power?
Personally I don't care about battery power. I'll get a few spares if I need to. I'm more interested in the EVF wake up speed. Does anyone have a R to compare. Is the R5 better? Either way when I'm birding I'll just leave the time out speeds at the maximum settings for quick EVF response time. ...Show more →
What I got out of that was that if you flip the LCD screen closed (reversed), then only the EVF is used and powered, and only when you put it up to your eye. He wants to avoid even the power use of having the LCD screen open and the camera switching to that output when you move your eye away from the EVF. What he's mentioning is the lag to switch or wake up the EVF is greater when the LCD is not being powered (stowed away) while almost instant when it's being used.
arbitrage wrote:
Once again if someone can just post a series of feeding hummers and not cherry pick the extended wing positions that would help a lot. Trying that in APS-C mode and FF mode would also help to see if APS-C does give a faster speed.
This is what I'm looking for. Notice that even on the 1/20s scan speed (FF compressed, 1/30 is possible in APS-C compressed) of the RIV that the full forward wing beat is mostly distortion free (other than some combing artifacts on the upper edge of the far wing).
Pius Sullivan wrote:
What I got from what he's saying, is you need the lcd screen active to have the evf come on instantly when you raise the camera to your eye. I took the eos R for several test drives and that was a huge issue for birds in flight or sports action. If you need to dissipate heat why would you not give users the option to turn things on and off.
If he wanted a quick response from the evf he had to leave the lcd on, hence a trade off for battery life...
That is what I got out of it as well. In the R's power saving menu you can disable VF off. I disabled both the VF and Power Off and the LCD to shut off in 15 seconds. With the LCD active the VF woke up right away. After the LCD shut off there was a delay even with the VF off disabled. Looks like I'm getting extra batteries.
