Archive 2020 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.49 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
lightskyland wrote:
"I did state that by your use of a word you demonstrated that you did not know what it means..."
I quoted the dictionary definition, which I believe matches what you have done in this discussion. Saying I am "incapable of" etc. is certainly a personal insult and one that is incorrect to boot.
I don't see much point in continuing this further. In the future, I would appreciate if you do not make claims about what I don't know and can't do, especially claims that are easily disproven. Let's keep the discussion on the cameras and not on the other posters.
Thanks
Well, I do apologize if you felt I insulted you. I definitely was never trying to insult you. I am sincerely sorry, you felt insulted. I do think, however, that your defense of Sony cameras and your failure to acknowledge any weaknesses in Sony cameras were arguments that were way over the top, unbalanced, and totally lacking in nuance. Simply said, I meant to say nothing about you personally, but I did mean to have a strong critique of your arguments.
p.49 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
My post both then and now was about the position you were maintaining and not about you. I was first commenting about what you said and failed to acknowledge about Sony cameras. That was a critique of your position. Your failure to acknowledge the weaknesses of Sony camera is part of your position about Sony cameras. It is not an ad hominem attack. It is not an attack of you. It is an attack of the position you took or more precisely in this case the position you failed to take. I made absolutely zero personal insults. Saying you failed to acknowledge something is not a personal insult. It is a description of your position. It is not an attribution of malice stupidity or ignorance.
I did state that by your use of a word you demonstrated that you did not know what it means, but that is not in any way an attribution of malice, stupdity, or ignorance. It is simply the misuse of a word. There was not attack on you as a person, just a criticism of your arguments including the failure to recognize weaknesses in Sony's system....Show more →
Steve, you literally said, “ My post both then and now was about the position you were maintaining and not about you.”
Ad hominem literally means:
Adjective: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Adverb: in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Who is using it incorrectly?
You also literally said, “ You are using ad hominem as synonymous with a bad argument. When you do so you are using a big word, but you clearly don't know what it means. Frankly, it makes you look foolish and overreaching.” Which then you then followed on and tried to back paddle in your next post and said, “ I did state that by your use of a word you demonstrated that you did not know what it means, but that is not in any way an attribution of malice, stupdity, or ignorance. It is simply the misuse of a word. There was not attack on you as a person, just a criticism of your arguments including the failure to recognize weaknesses in Sony's system.
Foolish is synonymous with stupid. You weren’t just simply stating the misuse of a word, (ironically, you have been the one using it incorrectly), it was an attack on that individual’s intelligence.
At times you provide some good insight and counter arguments/ideas. However, most of the time your character on the forums is ad nauseam.
Aug 08, 2020 at 03:28 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.49 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
greensony wrote:
Steve, you literally said, “ My post both then and now was about the position you were maintaining and not about you.”
Ad hominem literally means:
Adjective: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Adverb: in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Who is using it incorrectly?
You also literally said, “ You are using ad hominem as synonymous with a bad argument. When you do so you are using a big word, but you clearly don't know what it means. Frankly, it makes you look foolish and overreaching.” Which then you then followed on and tried to back paddle in your next post and said, “ I did state that by your use of a word you demonstrated that you did not know what it means, but that is not in any way an attribution of malice, stupdity, or ignorance. It is simply the misuse of a word. There was not attack on you as a person, just a criticism of your arguments including the failure to recognize weaknesses in Sony's system.
Foolish is synonymous with stupid. You weren’t just simply stating the misuse of a word, (ironically, you have been the one using it incorrectly), it was an attack on that individual’s intelligence.
At times you provide some good insight and counter arguments/ideas. However, most of the time your character on the forums is ad nauseam. ...Show more →
Thanks you for your critique. I won't address it. This is way off topic and I don't think it makes sense to make the thread about me or about what ad hominem means. Do appreciate that I apologized to lightskyland.
p.49 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thank you for putting me on your ignore list. Now if you would only stop commenting on my posts.
It’s funny because he didn’t comment on your post, but on lightskyland response to your post.
Aug 08, 2020 at 03:31 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.49 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
greensony wrote:
It’s funny because he didn’t comment on your post, but on lightskyland response to your post.
Maybe I should have worded it "now if only you would stop commenting about me in your posts." I suppose I could have and should have worded that better. If you have further critiques of me and my posts, I am happy to listen but please send them to me via PM, so we can keep the thread on track.
Aug 08, 2020 at 03:34 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.49 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NonDecaf wrote:
I don't shoot surfing, that was my only time. Anyway, as you are well aware, the list of pro level sports where a slow 200-600 is a better choice over the 70-200 / 300 / 400 2.8 (2 which Sony already has) is short. Canon's EF glass has been used to deliver professional quality results for a very long time, and the fact that the R5 can natively communicate with EF lenses is certainly an asset for Canon till they can produce more RF lenses. The R5 is not a direct competitor to the A9 spec for spec, but it comes darn close. The vast majority of sports are being shot with a mechanical shutter. Maybe golf would be a good example to demonstrate some the weakness of the R5's ES. Certainly mirrorless and e shutters are the future, but all of the current electronic shutters are slower than mechanical shutters so there is a lot of room to improve.
I fail to see how the R5 is "a joke" based on your assertions. It's barely been out for a month. The A9 had a bumpy launch and it only became great after a few firmware updates. At launch, the A9 had overheating issues, and AF issues while zooming in/out, menu lockout during writing, etc.
Also, do you have personal experience shooting sports with the R5 or are you simply passing on other peoples opinions? If I wanted to know what someone else thinks, I would just ask them instead of hearing their opinion second-hand through you....Show more →
when you claim that the 300/2.8 is gods gift to photography, you should educate yourself to the fact that earlier versions of that lens are not rated at 12fps on the r5, only the latest version is... same thing with the 70-200/2.8, 500/4, 200/2.8, etc.... only the latest versions are supported at 12fps... again, it's in the r5 manual that you didn't read.
by comparison, i've put several ef-mount sigma lenses on the a9, and they were all good for 14-15fps af-c with the mc-11.
your post indicates that you fail to understand that the reason that the a9 has significantly better af than the r5 is because it has a stacked sensor... it's hard to have a conversation with people who don't know anything about sony.
p.49 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
chez wrote:
Or look at it this way. The Canon 24-70...yes that's 24 not 28, is just over 800gm, a savings of over 600gm while gaining on the wide end. Or take the Tamron 28-75 coming in at 550gm...a whopping almost 900gm lighter. Don't tell me the 28-70 is not heavy...it's a pig compared to other lenses in that focal range.
Since I did not tell you it's not heavy, let's move to simple lesson about reading instead. I said it's not "too" heavy. It's easy to read above, so no need to repeat what's already in plain sight.
If you lack the strength to hold the equal of a DSLR and 70-200mm and DSLR comfortably, there are still thousands of women and men who can use that size gear effectively. Whether it's 70-200mm or the 28-70mm attached.
osv2 wrote:
beyond that, multiple reviewers have commented on r5/r6 ibis wobble:
And to take it a step beyond what you wrote, most reviewers speaking of the wobble conveyed it's commonplace among Sony and other brands or models, with certain lenses affecting it more or less. That may be why the forum user following reprimanded by way of question.
p.49 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
realVivek wrote:
It is as good as them (canon users) learning it from the Sony sensors. Any camera that is using such a sensor?
Even a concept contraption like the Zeiss ZX1?
canon is one of the biggest patent whores in the world, they file patents on all kinds of things that they will never manufacture, then license the tech to companies that want to actually do something with it: https://www.therecycler.com/posts/canon-granted-3548-patents-in-2019/#:~:text=announced%20that%20its%20parent%20company,producer%20of%20global%20patent%20databases.
it's a disgusting business model.
i find it rather funny that canon went to sony to get stacked sensors for their powershot cameras, and on top of that ordered 'em as cdaf-only.
Aug 08, 2020 at 04:21 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.49 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
mdvaden wrote:
Since I did not tell you it's not heavy, let's move to simple lesson about reading instead. I said it's not "too" heavy. It's easy to read above, so no need to repeat what's already in plain sight.
If you lack the strength to hold the equal of a DSLR and 70-200mm and DSLR comfortably, there are still thousands of women and men who can use that size gear effectively. Whether it's 70-200mm or the 28-70mm attached.
And to take it a step beyond what you wrote, most reviewers speaking of the wobble conveyed it's commonplace among Sony and other brands or models...Show more →
funny how that's not mentioned in the r5 vs. a7siii comparison video that i posted... if it's "commonplace", why didn't the sony camera do it?
also humorous that you failed to comment on the other r5 ibis issues mentioned in that vid ;-)
p.49 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
At least they did not claim that they “designed” the sensor from “scratch” like some nikonistas believing in Nikon’s claims.
osv2 wrote:
canon is one of the biggest patent whores in the world, they file patents on all kinds of things that they will never manufacture, then license the tech to companies that want to actually do something with it: https://www.therecycler.com/posts/canon-granted-3548-patents-in-2019/#:~:text=announced%20that%20its%20parent%20company,producer%20of%20global%20patent%20databases.
it's a disgusting business model.
i find it rather funny that canon went to sony to get stacked sensors for their powershot cameras, and on top of that ordered 'em as cdaf-only.
p.49 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
vdo1 wrote:
... SNIP ... I don't want to mess with adapters. Also AF only (this excludes a lot of great Loxia and CV MF lenses on Sony side and nothing on Canon side so I don't want to hear about me being Sony biased).
This is a pretty standard kit, so let me know what my quality options are in E-mount and RF-mount respectively.
Hard to know what others believe is quality. In the past I disliked adapters, but began to appreciate them for vintage and extra glass. For the R5 or R6, I also plan to get the variable ND filter adapter. I shoot EF, RF, FD and more. Presently, maybe the world's best 135mm lens is the Zeiss 135mm Apo Sonnar (without spending for Milvus or Otus). It's one of several I will be using with an R5.
In addition, Irix 150mm macro, Zeiss 180mm, Zeiss Flektogon 50mm, Canon FD 300mm. Haven't fully confirmed it, but I think the R5 retains the same unique focusing tool of the EOS R, where 3 x icons converge to mark focus, a feature above and beyond focus peaking. Made like a hand in a glove for manual focus and vintage lenses.
p.49 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
greensony wrote:
Steve, you literally said, “ My post both then and now was about the position you were maintaining and not about you.”
Ad hominem literally means:
Adjective: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Adverb: in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Who is using it incorrectly?
You also literally said, “ You are using ad hominem as synonymous with a bad argument. When you do so you are using a big word, but you clearly don't know what it means. Frankly, it makes you look foolish and overreaching.” Which then you then followed on and tried to back paddle in your next post and said, “ I did state that by your use of a word you demonstrated that you did not know what it means, but that is not in any way an attribution of malice, stupdity, or ignorance. It is simply the misuse of a word. There was not attack on you as a person, just a criticism of your arguments including the failure to recognize weaknesses in Sony's system.
Foolish is synonymous with stupid. You weren’t just simply stating the misuse of a word, (ironically, you have been the one using it incorrectly), it was an attack on that individual’s intelligence.
At times you provide some good insight and counter arguments/ideas. However, most of the time your character on the forums is ad nauseam. ...Show more →
"At times you provide some good insight and counter arguments/ideas. However, most of the time your character on the forums is ad nauseam."
p.49 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Another tester that found that the R5 is an amazingingly promising camera, but found the weird limitations in many areas made it unusable as a serious tool for his work. Unfortunately, this is becoming a theme it seems.
I think this guy used to call himself "that Nikon guy" before he switched to Sony last year.
p.49 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
mdvaden wrote:
Hard to know what others believe is quality. In the past I disliked adapters, but began to appreciate them for vintage and extra glass. For the R5 or R6, I also plan to get the variable ND filter adapter. I shoot EF, RF, FD and more. Presently, maybe the world's best 135mm lens is the Zeiss 135mm Apo Sonnar (without spending for Milvus or Otus). It's one of several I will be using with an R5.
In addition, Irix 150mm macro, Zeiss 180mm, Zeiss Flektogon 50mm, Canon FD 300mm. Haven't fully confirmed it, but I think the R5 retains the same unique focusing tool of the EOS R, where 3 x icons converge to mark focus, a feature above and beyond focus peaking. Made like a hand in a glove for manual focus and vintage lenses.
p.49 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I jumped to his conclusion section because I can’t stand Matt.
“If you want a stills camera, this is a fantastic option. If you need a 4k30 camera, this is still a great option”
“If I was going to buy this camera, it would be to use 8k which I don’t already, and because it’s limited in 8k I’ll NEVER recommend it”. What? He can’t recommend it because it has a feature he doesn’t currently use? Y’all need an education about YouTubers towing the line to the company that butters their bread (Sony in Matt’s case).
Seems like a case of hearing what you want to hear. He’s also making an assumption that the A7S3 4K/120 won’t overheat.
1bwana1 wrote:
Another tester that found that the R5 is an amazingingly promising camera, but found the weird limitations in many areas made it unusable as a serious tool for his work. Unfortunately, this is becoming a theme it seems.
I think this guy used to call himself "that Nikon guy" before he switched to Sony last year.
p.49 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Thank you Steve. A very gracious apology. I also apologize for being overly critical of the R5 in this thread. Canon obviously has made great leaps forward in technology this cycle and should be commended for that. They will also light a competitive fire under Sony to improve the areas that are still lacking in the A-series cameras.
