p.11 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
LBJ2 wrote:
Not so sure about the practical value of 20min 8K in today's typical environment. But for sure bragging rights. Canon has been hibernating for a long time. So even 20min 8K is certainly one way to come out with a bang or a fireball...
It's definitely going to sell units.
We'll buy one simply to offer 8K to the clients who think sensor resolution will make their content better.
It will be useful sometimes to add pan and scan in post, not that we do that often.
p.11 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
Means minimal rolling shutter, very fast readout.
The A9 records 4K forever, with great AF and great colours. It doesn't do log but if you don't need that, it's going to be a cheaper solution than the A7S3 and a better stills camera to boot.
p.11 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Bob_S wrote:
The A9 records 4K forever, with great AF and great colours. It doesn't do log but if you don't need that, it's going to be a cheaper solution than the A7S3 and a better stills camera to boot.
I always thought Sony to release a FW-update on the A9 to enhance it with video features. Who knows.
p.11 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
No, I am not buying a better camera, since I have no use for things you might think to be better. I use none of the movie functions.
The stacked sensor is unmatched so far and an ingredient part of my work. No black-out, super fast read out, silent shooting, class-leading AF, excellent battery life.
If doubt the 5k$ number, to be honest, unless you are selling almost brand new A9iis and lenses. My experience is you never get as much as expected and need a lot of other stuff, too. It would make more sense to get a new A7siii instead. You stay within an ecosystem, you know weaknesses/strengths/routines perfectly well etc. In the end the new system doesn't live up to the expectations and then?
My experience doing this for quite some time is switching system has less benefits than expected. ...Show more →
I agree with you. It is not clear that the R5 is better than the 3 year old A9 series camera, and the A9 undoubtedly offers things that the R5 seems unlikely to match. And we don't know what Sony's next updates are going to look like--Canon just put a lot of pressure on them. It does depend a lot on your application and use case.
The most appealing thing to me about the new Canon is its IBIS. The reports are that it offers 7-8 stops of IS with exactly the lenses I would want to use, and that is very tempting to me because I like hand-held shooting in available light. But let's see what Sony does. I do worry that they will have a harder time with matching Canon in IBIS because of how much smaller their lens mount is than Canon's.
Another issue with Canon is that their most interesting lenses are HUGE and expensive. The 28-70 f2 is 3 lbs and $3000.
Changing systems is a final resort for me. Nowhere close to it now. Give Sony time to respond.
p.11 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
chiron wrote:
I agree with you. It is not clear that the R5 is better than the 3 year old A9 series camera, and the A9 undoubtedly offers things that the R5 seems unlikely to match. And we don't know what Sony's next updates are going to look like--Canon just put a lot of pressure on them. It does depend a lot on your application and use case.
The most appealing thing to me about the new Canon is its IBIS. The reports are that it offers 7-8 stops of IS with exactly the lenses I would want to use, and that is very tempting to me because I like hand-held shooting in available light. But let's see what Sony does. I do worry that they will have a harder time with matching Canon in IBIS because of how much smaller their lens mount is than Canon's.
Another issue with Canon is that their most interesting lenses are HUGE and expensive. The 28-70 f2 is 3 lbs and $3000.
Changing systems is a final resort for me. Nowhere close to it now. Give Sony time to respond. ...Show more →
I am fine with the present IBIS. For people photography it is fine and for other things I need a tripod and 10-30s controlled exposures. The middle-ground doesn't interest me. But for some like you and video guys it is likely a nice thing. I would have thought a gimbal to be preferred but now "everybody" on Canon forums insists the IBIS makes a gimbal obsolete. Don't know about that.
p.11 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
I am fine with the present IBIS. For people photography it is fine and for other things I need a tripod and 10-30s controlled exposures. The middle-ground doesn't interest me. But for some like you and video guys it is likely a nice thing. I would have thought a gimbal to be preferred but now "everybody" on Canon forums insists the IBIS makes a gimbal obsolete. Don't know about that.
When shooting portraits or family/friends gatherings, 5.5 stops versus 8 stops or blur compensation is not very relevant.
That's because people are never completely still and 1/60s is usually necessary to avoid movement blur.
So, you will always need a somewhat fast shutter speed anyways, making the extra 3 stops of compensation irrelevant for applications that include people or any subject that is not completely still.
Having said that, it's nice to have the extra stops for creative shots or for when shooting in dark environments without a tripod with low shutter speeds. However, with long exposures, I would always prefer using a tripod. (Landscapes)
p.11 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Fred Miranda wrote:
When shooting portraits or family/friends gatherings, 5.5 stops versus 8 stops or blur compensation is not very relevant.
That's because people are never completely still and 1/60s is usually necessary to avoid movement blur.
So, you will always need a somewhat fast shutter speed anyways, making the extra 3 stops of compensation irrelevant for applications that include people or any subject that is not completely still.
Having said that, it's nice to have the extra stops for creative shots or for when shooting in dark environments without a tripod with low shutter speeds. However, with long exposures, I would always prefer using a tripod. (Landscapes)...Show more →
In my experience one should never go too low in shutter speed. After so many weddings and many hundred thousand images I never use the 85 below 1/250th anymore (in vary rare cases slower), for example. Too many images showed signs of motion blur on the A7r3 and sometimes the A9s. You are often at closer to intermediate distances and a sudden movement, blink, etc. is sufficient.
Yes, it is always nice to have better technology. But I read the IS comes with a slight crop on the R5/R6, at least in video. So it seems there is extreme movement necessary for it to provide the full potential.
p.11 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Have they anywhere said how many stops of stability just the body and a non-stabilised lens provides?
chiron wrote:
I agree with you. It is not clear that the R5 is better than the 3 year old A9 series camera, and the A9 undoubtedly offers things that the R5 seems unlikely to match. And we don't know what Sony's next updates are going to look like--Canon just put a lot of pressure on them. It does depend a lot on your application and use case.
The most appealing thing to me about the new Canon is its IBIS. The reports are that it offers 7-8 stops of IS with exactly the lenses I would want to use, and that is very tempting to me because I like hand-held shooting in available light. But let's see what Sony does. I do worry that they will have a harder time with matching Canon in IBIS because of how much smaller their lens mount is than Canon's.
Another issue with Canon is that their most interesting lenses are HUGE and expensive. The 28-70 f2 is 3 lbs and $3000.
Changing systems is a final resort for me. Nowhere close to it now. Give Sony time to respond. ...Show more →
p.11 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
In my experience one should never go too low in shutter speed. After so many weddings and many hundred thousand images I never use the 85 below 1/250th anymore (in vary rare cases slower), for example. Too many images showed signs of motion blur on the A7r3 and sometimes the A9s. You are often at closer to intermediate distances and a sudden movement, blink, etc. is sufficient.
Yes, it is always nice to have better technology. But I read the IS comes with a slight crop on the R5/R6, at least in video. So it seems there is extreme movement necessary for it to provide the full potential....Show more →
I agree.
IBIS allows less camera shake when using low shutter speeds but the main goal is to get lower ISO for cleaner files with broader DR and better color.
However, when shooting people (Like in weddings), the extra 3 stops of blur compensation does not help much. That's because people are never still, so there is always the limitation of how low the shutter speed can go. Some prefer 1/250s for candids while others can get away with 1/30s if a subject is holding very still. Never lower than this.
For this reason, 5.5 stops vs 8 stops does not make much difference for applications where we want people to be critically sharp.
p.11 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Olympus has this feature sorted to an extent where exposures in the 1 and more seconds territory were tack sharp for still subjects. It wasn’t a marketing hype either, it was true. Canon for example has only quoted figures with a stabilised lens. (From sans mirror site)
Fred Miranda wrote:
When shooting portraits or family/friends gatherings, 5.5 stops versus 8 stops or blur compensation is not very relevant.
That's because people are never completely still and 1/60s is usually necessary to avoid movement blur.
So, you will always need a somewhat fast shutter speed anyways, making the extra 3 stops of compensation irrelevant for applications that include people or any subject that is not completely still.
Having said that, it's nice to have the extra stops for creative shots or for when shooting in dark environments without a tripod with low shutter speeds. However, with long exposures, I would always prefer using a tripod. (Landscapes)...Show more →
p.11 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
The Canon glass is definitely high quality.
You just won’t get the same 1.2 glass or telephoto options.
Jul 11, 2020 at 02:26 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.11 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
I would have thought a gimbal to be preferred but now "everybody" on Canon forums insists the IBIS makes a gimbal obsolete. Don't know about that.
sounds like none of those people have ever shot video.
gimbals are far superior because they keep the horizon line level, when you see it in action it's simply amazing... ibis does not do that.
p.11 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
As I said in one of my posts, for some folks (not folks doing action or wedding types of work), the 7-8 stops stabilization can be very convenient. I often walk my dog around a lake at dawn, if I have a camera/lens (like the RF15-35 L IS) that I could shoot at 1 or 2 seconds shutter speed, or even a bit slower at ISO 100, that's a big plus. The 7-8 stops stabilization may not be a big deal for some but it could be a big deal for others.
Oh, i read somewhere the R5 has focus bracketing too...
p.11 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
kdrk888 wrote:
As I said in one of my posts, for some folks (not folks doing action or wedding types of work), the 7-8 stops stabilization can be very convenient. I often walk my dog around a lake at dawn, if I have a camera/lens (like the RF15-35 L IS) that I could shoot at 1 or 2 seconds shutter speed, or even a bit slower at ISO 100, that's a big plus. The 7-8 stops stabilization may not be a big deal for some but it could be a big deal for others.
Oh, i read somewhere the R5 has focus bracketing too......Show more →
If you can handhold your camera at 1/60s and get critically sharp images, 8-stop of compensation would allow you to shoot at 4 seconds while still getting critical sharp images. Do you think this is really possible? Would love to see someone here at FM give it a try.
p.11 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Stops of stabilization are often exaggerated in my experience. Sony claims 5.5 on the A7R IV...for me it's closer to 2, 2.5. Even if that holds for Canon, that's still an extra 3 stops, which would be amazing. I have found Fuji and Olympus to be more accurate with their claims, though, so we will have to see on this front with Canon.
p.11 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Fred Miranda wrote:
When shooting portraits or family/friends gatherings, 5.5 stops versus 8 stops or blur compensation is not very relevant.
That's because people are never completely still and 1/60s is usually necessary to avoid movement blur.
So, you will always need a somewhat fast shutter speed anyways, making the extra 3 stops of compensation irrelevant for applications that include people or any subject that is not completely still.
Having said that, it's nice to have the extra stops for creative shots or for when shooting in dark environments without a tripod with low shutter speeds. However, with long exposures, I would always prefer using a tripod. (Landscapes)...Show more →
Candids of people do present the problem of subject motion. But I generally find there is usually a moment when people pause in their spontaneous movements without having to be being posed, and those moments can be shot at long speeds if you can get the camera steadied. In attempting those shots in dim light, I often lose the picture to camera movement rather than subject movement. Because I like dim light, I often lose a range of pictures to camera movement. Also, the 7-8 stops would at worst add 2-3 smaller stops on aperture (compared to 5.5 stop IBIS) if that were desired.
Here is a link to a photographer who does available light candids of family and friends at weddings, never using flash or posed pictures. As you can judge, some of the images were shot at faster speeds to stop motion and some at slower speeds that would benefit from additional stops of IBIS. He shoots Canon and Leica, last I knew, and I would imagine the R5 would help his work:
