p.12 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Fred Miranda wrote:
If you can handhold your camera at 1/60s and get critically sharp images, 8-stop of compensation would allow you to shoot at 4 seconds while still getting critical sharp images. Do you think this is really possible? Would love to see someone here at FM give it a try.
Those specs seem quite silly in the real world. Even hand holding at 1 second without serious movement sounds difficult and unrealistic especially if you're being bounced around in a vehicle or aircraft. How can a sensor or optics movement compensate for the lens moving more than a few millimeters in axis? Especially with a 70-200! Maybe using stops to describe how great a cameras stabilization is just a poor way to rate it.
p.12 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
chiron wrote:
Candids of people do present the problem of subject motion. But I generally find there is usually a moment when people pause in their spontaneous movements without having to be being posed, and those moments can be shot at long speeds if you can get the camera steadied. In attempting those shots in dim light, I often lose the picture to camera movement rather than subject movement. Because I like dim light, I often lose a range of pictures to camera movement. Also, the 7-8 stops would at worst add 2-3 smaller stops on aperture (compared to 5.5 stop IBIS) if that were desired.
Here is a link to a photographer who does available light candids of family and friends at weddings, never using flash or posed pictures. As you can judge, some of the images were shot at faster speeds to stop motion and some at slower speeds that would benefit from additional stops of IBIS. He shoots Canon and Leica, last I knew, and I would imagine the R5 would help his work:
Even if your subject (person) is completely still, how low can your shutter speed go for an image focused on the eye to be critically sharp?
That's unrelated to camera shake and only dependent on how still your subject can hold. Wedding photographers don't want to take the risk going below 1/30s or 1/60s. That's where the extra 3 stops will not make any difference. You should not go lower than 1/30s and that's if someone is really holding still.
Other than people photography (especially candids), I do think the extra stops (8 instead of 5.5) of camera shake compensation could be useful for motionless subjects though.
p.12 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I do have to say, I really like what I’m seeing with Canon at the moment. I don’t anticipate a switch any time soon, but I’ve been sufficiently impressed with both the lenses and the rate of improvement from their first bodies to these. As a result I decided to dip my toes in the RF mount. I can’t justify buying a new R6 or R5 for what will be a secondary system, but I picked up an RP with the slow 24-105 kit for a steal on Greentoe, and found a like new in box used RF 35/1.8 for $375 at my local store today. Should be fun to dabble in the system and have a base for reviewing RF bodies and lenses for a while. If I like what I see over the next year or so, I may consider picking up an R5 when they come down in price, and start transitioning, but a lot will depend on how Canon progresses and Sony continues with their stuff.
p.12 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
chiron wrote:
Candids of people do present the problem of subject motion. But I generally find there is usually a moment when people pause in their spontaneous movements without having to be being posed, and those moments can be shot at long speeds if you can get the camera steadied. In attempting those shots in dim light, I often lose the picture to camera movement rather than subject movement. Because I like dim light, I often lose a range of pictures to camera movement. Also, the 7-8 stops would at worst add 2-3 smaller stops on aperture (compared to 5.5 stop IBIS) if that were desired.
Here is a link to a photographer who does available light candids of family and friends at weddings, never using flash or posed pictures. As you can judge, some of the images were shot at faster speeds to stop motion and some at slower speeds that would benefit from additional stops of IBIS. He shoots Canon and Leica, last I knew, and I would imagine the R5 would help his work:
It's been a while since I enjoyed scanning through other people's wedding photos. I am sure all my favorites were shot with a Leica Seriously, thanks for sharing/posting. Inspirational.
p.12 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Jman13 wrote:
I do have to say, so really like what I’m seeing with Canon at the moment. I don’t anticipate a switch any time soon, but I’ve been sufficiently impressed with both the lenses and the rate of improvement from their first bodies to these. As a result I decided to dip my toes in the RF mount. I can’t justify buying a new R6 or R5 for what will be a secondary system, but I picked up an RP with the slow 24-105 kit for a steal on Greentoe, and found a like new in box used RF 35/1.8 for $375 at my local store today. Should be fun to dabble in the system and have a base for reviewing RF bodies and lenses for a while. If I like what I see over the next year or so, I may consider picking up an R5 when they come down in price, and start transitioning, but a lot will depend on how Canon progresses and Sony continues with their stuff. ...Show more →
As a Sony FF photog with no Canon or Nikon camera experience and having lived through the entire Sony FF mirrorless roll-out from day-one til now, I am gobsmacked at what Canon has accomplished in less than two years! Not just a few spectacular new FF mirrorless lenses but several and now the R5/R6. I've always read about the Sleeping Giant would one day wake up, I guess this is it. The giant is awake.
Jul 11, 2020 at 03:57 PM
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p.12 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
p.12 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Jman13 wrote:
I do have to say, I really like what I’m seeing with Canon at the moment. I don’t anticipate a switch any time soon, but I’ve been sufficiently impressed with both the lenses and the rate of improvement from their first bodies to these. As a result I decided to dip my toes in the RF mount. I can’t justify buying a new R6 or R5 for what will be a secondary system, but I picked up an RP with the slow 24-105 kit for a steal on Greentoe, and found a like new in box used RF 35/1.8 for $375 at my local store today. Should be fun to dabble in the system and have a base for reviewing RF bodies and lenses for a while. If I like what I see over the next year or so, I may consider picking up an R5 when they come down in price, and start transitioning, but a lot will depend on how Canon progresses and Sony continues with their stuff. ...Show more →
Really? What would you really gain over the Sigma 14-24 and A7riv for your type of photography?
What happens, if after the switch Sony or Nikon is bringing out the next holy grail of photography?
p.12 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Like I said, I'm not switching right now. As of now, I could never get what I have with Sony without spending a bazillion dollars, but if Canon continues down this path. I could see eventually moving that way. If the IBIS is truly as good as advertised, it would be a huge deal...and I really like the lenses they've put out so far. They also have done things in two years that Sony has yet to implement, much to my consternation: bulb shooting without a remote release, in camera RAW conversion, more comfortable ergonomics, much better touchscreen implementation. With the R5, they appear at first blush to have entirely closed the gap with regards to autofocus, and we shall see with regards to image quality. But early reports are promising.
Also understand that I do reviews, and renting a body every time I want to review a lens isn't feasible, so having a small base kit for the systems I want to review is necessary.
p.12 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
Really? What would you really gain over the Sigma 14-24 and A7riv for your type of photography?
What happens, if after the switch Sony or Nikon is bringing out the next holy grail of photography?
I keep looking at the Canon 15-35 f2.8 IS, seems to be a super sharp lens that takes regular screw-in filters. Combine that with the IBIS, you are looking at the hand held possibility of very slow shutter speed, of course not the 6 seconds in theory as Fred pointed out, but 2 seconds, 1 or 1/2 second at ISO 100? I think for some people it has a lot of value in landscape or interior when a tripod is not convenient or allowed. I have the Sigma 14-24 but I wouldn't mind trading that for a 15-35 that has IS and takes regular filters.
p.12 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
LBJ2 wrote:
It's been a while since I enjoyed scanning through other people's wedding photos. I am sure all my favorites were shot with a Leica Seriously, thanks for sharing/posting. Inspirational.
I am very glad you like them, LBJ. I have loved his images for a long time. Very beautiful and feelingful. There is a video of him shooting a wedding. He just stays quiet and close and does not direct but keeps taking pictures, sometimes from very close to people but without interrupting or changing what they are doing. It is a bit the way we amateurs might shoot if we were with family or friends or on the street or traveling.
p.12 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
imagesfromobjects wrote:
Wtf is anyone doing with 8k?
Serious question.
Probably the same thing people do with Pixel Shift Multi Shot? Seriously, I don’t think its a stretch to say both more bells and whistles than practical. However, I am sure someone out there that knows how, will make good use of 8K but might be a while before any of us can actually see it.
p.12 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nandadevieast wrote:
Have they anywhere said how many stops of stability just the body and a non-stabilised lens provides?
Yes, Fred provided a very useful list. Here it is. Many of the lenses in the 8-stop, 7.5-stop, and 7 stop categories do not Have IS in the lens. That is a very impressive IBIS system.
p.12 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Looks like a nice camera and competition is good for everyone. I suspect this will stop the bleeding for Canon, which is great, but it’s hard to imagine that one camera will win over many of the folks who have switched away over the years. Seems likely to achieve the same thing the Z6/Z7 did for Nikon. So growth may get tougher for Sony now that it has real competition, but I don’t think there’s anything here that couldn’t be matched or leapfrogged in a future Sony release.
p.12 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Fred Miranda wrote:
Even if your subject (person) is completely still, how low can your shutter speed go for an image focused on the eye to be critically sharp?
That's unrelated to camera shake and only dependent on how still your subject can hold. Wedding photographers don't want to take the risk going below 1/30s or 1/60s. That's where the extra 3 stops will not make any difference.
Other than people (especially candids), I do think the extra stops (8 instead of 5.5) of camera shake compensation could be useful for other subjects and conditions.
We'll have to see how it works out in practice. There are times when you want everything critically, Voightlander-50mm-APO-sharp, and other times when compete sharpness is not so important to the effect of the photo. Ascough uses a lot of images where some or all of the scene is unsharp, which I happen to like. But many of his photos are slightly soft and would probably be improved by more stops of IS. Same with Saul Leiter. And with most street photographers. But I take your point about eyes. We'll just have to see what people actually do when they have 8 stops available to them.
Here is a photo from this afternoon of my grandson and his mother. The dim light on their faces and the difficulty seeing them clearly is part of what makes the photo work for me (though I know others will think it is just a mistake). That is a kind of light that I enjoy using.
p.12 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
kdrk888 wrote:
I keep looking at the Canon 15-35 f2.8 IS, seems to be a super sharp lens that takes regular screw-in filters. Combine that with the IBIS, you are looking at the hand held possibility of very slow shutter speed, of course not the 6 seconds in theory as Fred pointed out, but 2 seconds, 1 or 1/2 second at ISO 100? I think for some people it has a lot of value in landscape or interior when a tripod is not convenient or allowed. I have the Sigma 14-24 but I wouldn't mind trading that for a 15-35 that has IS and takes regular filters....Show more →
Here is a photo of my iMac screen taken just a few minutes ago handheld with my Olympus EM1 MKIII that has 7 claimed stops of IBIS. It is at ISO 100, 1 sec and f11 with the 17mm f1.8 lens (34mm FF). Not the sharpest lens close up and normally I would not shoot at f11 due to possible diffraction. As @JMan13 said Olympus's IBIS is very good, way better than my Sony A73. It is 5 stops for sure as this photo proves, vs. maybe 2 to 3 stops, lens dependent, for Sony. I have taken landscapes at 2 seconds, or 6 stops, no problem, but as Fred said due to subject motion my portraits rarely go below 1/25 sec.
EDIT: I have added a Sony A73 photo with the 35mm f2.8 ZA lens and handheld the steadiest I could get was at 1/4 second, or 3 stops of IBIS. At 1 sec the text was unreadable.
p.12 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Cannot imagine choosing a camera system with a closed lens mount and extremely spotty third-party lens support (and with far fewer native manufacturer lenses than Sony to boot!)
p.12 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
lightskyland wrote:
Cannot imagine choosing a camera system with a closed lens mount and extremely spotty third-party lens support (and with far fewer native manufacturer lenses than Sony to boot!)
Most of my lenses are third-party native E-mount.
Plus bigger and heavier lenses.
I can see bigger and heavier for Telephoto, but not for normal range lenses.
p.12 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I really don't care about the minor differences in specs between cameras anymore. I'm more concerned that Sony has thus far refused to adapt the ergonomics of its cameras, and I hope that's an update we see at some point (I assume this is a tooling/price issue).
Seriously, thanks for sharing/posting. Inspirational. 
