As an aside to this thread, in speaking with the Canon rep this morning, I asked about the R5 and specifically the focusing capabilities it will have. He very emphatically stated that while it will be similar to the 1DxIII, it WILL NOT have the same focusing capabilities as the 1DxIII. He did say there's a lot to like about that camera and that they had seen it and had a good bit of "undisclosable" information about it, but the focusing will not on the 1DxIII level as Canon will continue segmenting that market.
bipock wrote:
As an aside to this thread, in speaking with the Canon rep this morning, I asked about the R5 and specifically the focusing capabilities it will have. He very emphatically stated that while it will be similar to the 1DxIII, it WILL NOT have the same focusing capabilities as the 1DxIII. He did say there's a lot to like about that camera and that they had seen it and had a good bit of "undisclosable" information about it, but the focusing will not on the 1DxIII level as Canon will continue segmenting that market.
Whether you put stock in that is up to you....Show more →
Makes sense. The 5D3/1Dx and 5D4/1Dx2 have followed the same pattern: The $3000 camera has a similar AF system as the $6000 camera, but without the processing power to knock it out of the park. There's no way they let anything except the 1D series have their best AF in the lineup.
onlythebrave wrote:
Sony is currently ruling the mirror less professional market, but they are playing their cards too fast. For example, Sony a6600 with 16-55 f2.8 does not makes any sense when you have A7III in market for the same price. They are killing their own products. While canon is very smart and will never ruin its own products.
But for consumers, its great to have competition and thats what is forcing canon to step up their game and take aggressive approach. Canon has a great chance to get back its market for mirror less. Sony will have to be very smart with innovation to maintain the lead. The next gen of cameras are going to inherit lot of its features from mobile phones and smart products....Show more →
Let's not forget that Sony also manufactures smart phones.
Mike_5D wrote:
Makes sense. The 5D3/1Dx and 5D4/1Dx2 have followed the same pattern: The $3000 camera has a similar AF system as the $6000 camera, but without the processing power to knock it out of the park. There's no way they let anything except the 1D series have their best AF in the lineup.
The problem with that approach is that the Sony A9-II does have 1D level AF and 20% higher resolution at a price of $4500.
I would not say that Sony OWNS the sensor market. Canon does not need to match the sensor standard Sony has set in high end FF bodies. Their own standard was good enought the last 2 decades to compete against all others and become and stay as Number 1 for more than 15 years.
The(ir) DSLR market did not collapse because of worse sensors. Only five years ago mirrorless cameras where much to bad compared with DSLRs. To slow, not reliable, to power consuming, to bad to get professional results. In Sonys case without highly needed lenses, compatible to nothing.
This is what has changed. During the last three years mirrorless catched up and overcame DSLRs in features (like speed and AF). EVFs became usable, too. Better batteries came. Sony was still back in ergonomics and reliability. And they imo still are today if one does not choose their high end products.
The mass market did not care. Consumers are more interested in features like eye AF and 4K video.
This is Canons and Nikons chance to come back into the game. Both already used the new situation to create innovativ possibilities for the(ir) future (RF & Z mount). Both offer perfect working adapters for their established lenses AND promising new ones, too. Both established themselves within the last 35 years as (more or less) reliable partners of any kind of photographers, stood for usability, functionality, performance, reliability and ease of use for a unbelievable huge amount of users who only wait for their new (mirrorless) tools.
Sony does not have this base of users. Ergonomics is nothing they ever really cared about (the better feel of the newest bodies and controls is far away from what it could/should be - the menu is still far from beeing comfortable or logical or even understandable). They are established in the mirrorless market now. But as far I see it their users are not really conected to them or the brand. They just purchased features. And they will switch to the next brand offering better features and MORE.
Producing and selling good (or best) sensors may generate good sensor sales. But this does not mean Sony will go on making succesfull cameras. Selling successful cameras without having real competitors is an easy venture. But now their biggest competitors are back to compete.
In my opinion Canon will not need more then one and a half years to be back as the No. 1. (in sales) in the mirrorless market. And for them it is the biggest advantage, that they have their own sensor tech and fab.
bipock wrote:
As an aside to this thread, in speaking with the Canon rep this morning, I asked about the R5 and specifically the focusing capabilities it will have. He very emphatically stated that while it will be similar to the 1DxIII, it WILL NOT have the same focusing capabilities as the 1DxIII. He did say there's a lot to like about that camera and that they had seen it and had a good bit of "undisclosable" information about it, but the focusing will not on the 1DxIII level as Canon will continue segmenting that market.
Whether you put stock in that is up to you....Show more →
I wouldn't expect 1DXIII performance, but how about somewhere closer to 1DX performance, or something obviously better than 7DII performance?
If not, we are back to where I started with essentially a 5DIV + 10MP for more cropping power and bundled up in a shiny new compact form factor.
Would this be enough for Canon users (still photographers) to upgrade given IQ should be very similar to 5DIV? It sounds like video might be worthy for those who use it, but not so sure it will be worthy upgrade for stills unless the extra 10MP+ is super important to someone.
artsupreme wrote:
I wouldn't expect 1DXIII performance, but how about somewhere closer to 1DX performance, or something obviously better than 7DII performance?
If not, we are back to where I started with essentially a 5DIV + 10MP for more cropping power and bundled up in a shiny new compact form factor.
Would this be enough for Canon users (still photographers) to upgrade given IQ should be very similar to 5DIV? It sounds like video might be worthy for those who use it, but not so sure it will be worthy upgrade for stills unless the extra 10MP+ is super important to someone.
New 5DIV for $1799 or R5 for $4000 range?...Show more →
What the 5D IV lacked in order to become universally accepted as a sports camera, was a frame rate of 10 fps, or 8fps as an absolute minimum. This is the thing the R5 is going to solve. The extra resolution will pull in the wildlife crowd. How good the AF will have to be in order to please people is undecided. This is what we really have to wait for. What do the reviews and the experts here say.
bipock wrote:
But Sony doesn't yet have the lenses and adapting a Canon lens to a Sony body doesn't always provide stellar results.
For wildlife and sports shooters Sony has a 600 f/4, 400 f/2.8, 200-600 f/5.6-6.3, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6, f/70-200 f/2.8 and f/4. They've also got the shorter focal length zooms pretty well covered (16-35 f/2.8, 24-70 f/2.8) plus a 90mm f/2.8 macro and some f/1.8 primes, and a bunch of Zeiss Batis and Loxia lenses with native Sony E mounts, not to mention E mount lenses from Voigtlander (which are excellent) plus Sigma, and the rest.
"Not adapting well" typically refers to AF performance, not optical performance. Landscape shooters don't necessarily need AF at all, but there are plenty of both without adapting any Canon lenses. I think the reason so many adapt Canon lenses is because:
1. When they switch systems adapting lenses lets them ease into it rather than buy everything at once.
2. There are some Canon lenses that adapt very well, including AF, so there's no need to replace them.
3. Landscape shooters who don't need fast (or any) AF also have no need to replace their Canon glass.
alundeb wrote:
What the 5D IV lacked in order to become universally accepted as a sports camera, was a frame rate of 10 fps, or 8fps as an absolute minimum. This is the thing the R5 is going to solve. The extra resolution will pull in the wildlife crowd. How good the AF will have to be in order to please people is undecided. This is what we really have to wait for. What do the reviews and the experts here say.
The big question is will it actually perform 12fps while tracking in AI servo or will the 12fps be limited to one shot mode? And then possibly have the caveat that it will *AF up to 7fps in AI servo? If yes, we are back to the same old Canon way. The reason I started this thread was to ask if people really expect Canon to step it up for once.
I'm going to hope for the best but I'm not counting on it. Please surprise us all Canon.
artsupreme wrote:
The big question is will it actually perform 12fps while tracking in AI servo or will the 12fps be limited to one shot mode? And then possibly have the caveat that it will *AF up to 7fps in AI servo? If yes, we are back to the same old Canon way. The reason I started this thread was to ask if people really expect Canon to step it up for once.
I'm going to hope for the best but I'm not counting on it. Please surprise us all Canon.
The minimum we can expect, is that it will track at 50% frame rate of what the top 1D class camera of the time does. That will be 8 fps mech and 10 fps e-shutter. This is the old Canon way and I guarantee that will happen as a minimum.
alundeb wrote:
The minimum we can expect, is that it will track at 50% frame rate of what the top 1D class camera of the time does. That will be 8 fps mech and 10 fps e-shutter. This is the old Canon way and I guarantee that will happen as a minimum.
Yeah you are probably right. I wonder when we'll find out...
Not sure I can go with the "Home Run" theory on the R.
Two or Three Reasons:
1) IBIS ... where are you
2) After multiple store demo visits and shooting it with multiple lenses, it didn't open my wallet (yet)
3) Still has an AA filter (YMMV)
That said, I'd give it a solid base hit, maybe a double ... which puts Canon FF mirrorless in "scoring position" for whenever they get their next hit. If they put IBIS in their next mirrorless FF bodies (or bring out a killer 7R), then I think we can start talking about scoring runs.
Till then, the R & RP just put runners on base, with the R in scoring position ... a nice at bat ... but, certainly not what I'd call a "Home Run" on the first at bat.
greenfield wrote:
Canon is stating that the R5 will have IBIS: [...] The EOS R5 will be the first Canon camera equipped with IBIS (In Body Image Stabilization) [...]
Thanks ... guess I should've said "When", not "If". My real point was that the R was lacking it. In today's realm, a mirrorless camera without IBIS isn't exactly knocking it out of the park ... it's still holding something back.
Whether or not a home run, the R5 following the R & RP is starting to show signs of a rally. Could a 7R be close behind?
Not sure I can go with the "Home Run" theory on the R.
Two or Three Reasons:
1) IBIS ... where are you
2) After multiple store demo visits and shooting it with multiple lenses, it didn't open my wallet (yet)
3) Still has an AA filter (YMMV)
That said, I'd give it a solid base hit, maybe a double ... which puts Canon FF mirrorless in "scoring position" for whenever they get their next hit. If they put IBIS in their next mirrorless FF bodies (or bring out a killer 7R), then I think we can start talking about scoring runs.
Till then, the R & RP just put runners on base, with the R in scoring position ... a nice at bat ... but, certainly not what I'd call a "Home Run" on the first at bat. ...Show more →
You forgot about the lovely single card slot, the mega speed fps, the amazing touch bar, etc....the R was a walk to first base (batter was hit by a pitch)...
artsupreme wrote:
You forgot about the lovely single card slot, the mega speed fps, the amazing touch bar, etc....the R was a walk to first base (batter was hit by a pitch)...
Not to mention that the card slot remained SD ... i.e. current consumer oriented (which is fine for the price point). As others are moving toward faster card types, I couldn't quite see investing in something that wasn't future oriented. Again, nice enough for the price point (kinda sorta) ... i.e. still not a home run.
Pondering if a used R might become a backup bargain once the 5R hits the stores. Imo, anything that I'd be considering as a "backup bargain" ... well, that just doesn't quite conjure up the notion of Home Run, either.
Most camera releases don't live up to the hype. The normal pattern seems to be:
- rumor mill goes nuts
- camera is released with a number of rumored items incorrect.
- people get mad and bitch and moan on DPR
- time passes and people realise that it's not actually that bad.
- eventually a loyal following of users champion the camera, defending it against any criticism on DPR.
- rinse and repeat
