Archive 2020 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
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p.4 #1 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
chez wrote:
That increase in sales happens every year during those three months...the graph clearly shows this. What is more unexplained is the much bigger drop in sales than normal during the beginning of 2019 and during the summer months. I think your 50% sales growth would be much less of a percentage if the camera sales didn't take such a big hit during the first half of the year.
It will be interesting to see if sales continue to take a big drop again in 2020 at the beginning of the year.
It will be really interesting to see what happens in the first quarter of 2020. I think it will tell us a lot about how much the market is going to contract. There are new cameras both DSLRs and mirrorless coming out in that first quarter. If sales fizzle that will be a very bad sign. If the new cameras do fairly well, then the contraction may be beginning to bottom out.
p.4 #2 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
Now that FF is dead,I will take your obsolete D850 or D5 and give them a good home. Warm in winter, cool in summer and exercse. I won't even charge for caretaking, First come first served. Remember, my caretaking is free.
p.4 #3 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
First off, I did not read hogans article. I think he’s mostly just a whiner.
Jonathan F wrote:
Nikon should of just retired the D7xx moniker, because the D750 was more like a D650 and the new D780 is actually a D680. Neither body seems like the pro camera
So Nikon should have “just retired” their best selling full frame DSLR?? The cash cow!?
I’m guessing that camera is number one or number two for wedding photographers around the world. So yes, it’s a professional camera.
Makes a lot of sense to me for them to add amazing video capabilities to this high seller - as in the new D780. I bought the original D750 for $2300, so the price of the D780 seems very fair to me.
(As an aside I am a commercial photographer, shooting in studios at Google, Williams-Sonoma, Macys, Sephora, Amazon, etc. etc.
In these studios we purchase five or 10 DSLRs at a time.
Do you know how many mirrorless cameras are in use in those studios? Zero.)
p.4 #4 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
Gary Irwin wrote:
Though I tend to agree with Thom on this, I think that's an accurate statement. Nikon is having to take a treacherous path trying not to alienate their legions of DSLR fans like you, and also satisfy Z fans like me. Although I think Nikon will be fine in the longer term, their transition to mirrorless (which is the future IMO) isn't going to be accomplished without mistakes being made.
I will add that not only am I not interested in the D780, but I won't be interested in a D880 if it comes with similar tech w/61MP sensor -- my D850 will most likely be the last DSLR I will ever own. ...Show more →
They don't have to tread a treacherous path to not alienate me. If they never make another DSLR, I'm good.
But if they're hoping to sell me a mirrorless, they're going to have to do a hell of a better job with the bodies than they've done so far.
D850 could very well be my last DSLR as well, though the D6, depending how the rumored specs translate to real world, might be my "last"
p.4 #5 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
1bwana1 wrote:
Don't lose sum1sgrampa's contact information. Sounds like he is a buyer for your old equipment when you move on.
Well, I'm just down the road from him, and he's already shared his osprey shooting location with me. I think he's taken exception to my stance on the Zees, so hopefully he'll hold that against me and stick me with that 600e of his. I'm sure no self respecting Zee owner would hold on to an f mount 600e, if / when Nikon makes a Zee mount one.
p.4 #6 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
1bwana1 wrote:
The fact that in his article Hogan is saying that these new cameras are not worth the upgrade for most, is more likely to discourage people from using affiliate links on his site to buy one. This disproves your first paragraph rather well.
Not buying new things in order to save the environment is another cause you are going to lose. People are just not built that way.
Either reverse psychology to sell the D780 or
hoping to drive the reader to the Zee system as you can then always say "do you need a lens with that?"
p.4 #7 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
sum1sgrampa wrote:
I can see the future for me. And I'm salivating watching the prices on Nikon's exotic F mount teles getting lower and lower and closer to my price range. And pretty soon all those gear chasers who purchased Z7's and whatnot to replace their D850's they obviously didn't need in the first place will be offering those up for bargain prices too. It always kills me when I read " since I got my Z7 I haven't picked up my D850."
Well maybe you didn't need a camera with all the D850 capabilities to begin with. So I'll continue to shoot crappy photos with my ancient, outdated, inferior equipment until something better falls in my lap. Or maybe not...Show more →
Same here. "It always kills me when I read " since I got my Z7 I haven't picked up my D850."
And this is likely true. "Well maybe you didn't need a camera with all the D850 capabilities to begin with."
Too bad you can't tag, as I know a couple of fellows I'd like to tag.
p.4 #8 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
Yeah my biggest problem with Nikon is that they price their stuff like they don't have any form of competition. When the Z7 came out it was like $1500 more than a used A7RII, but with better ergonomics, less lenses, no second hand market, no grip and I think worse AF. I didn't even need the RII, but I couldn't say no to the black friday prices that were happening so just bought it on a whim and just kept at it until I started to like it and bought more stuff for it. Now with a $2300 780. It just feels priced out of the market. I'm awash in camera options these days. I could put that $2300 into a used A9 or if I want to get into another mount that gets me a Panasonic S1. It's almost a used D4 and a used D750 if someone needs to buy two bodies and don't care about the live view improvements. The 2020 camera market is not what it was five years ago. I'm not saying that it's dead, it's just basically jam packed with used camera options. I spend a lot on camera stuff, just none of it's new most of the time. Jonathan F wrote:
I would of loved to fully consolidate back into the Nikon fold, but I find Sony's been a bit more consistent when it comes to retaining features and building on what's there. Nikon's been haphazard when it comes to their cameras and it's a big turn off. Also I've always preferred OEM grips over the knock-offs, because they're just built more solid. I don't consider Sony perfect either and to be honest, I think Nikon could easily beat Sony in the mirrorless market if they stuck with a consistent feature set. You don't take features away when the competition at the same price point offers those options. Nikon's operating in a bubble if they think consumers don't notice....Show more →
p.4 #9 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
Jonathan F wrote:
I think he makes good points in his article. Nikon adds and then takes features away in this segment. Nikon should of just retired the D7xx moniker, because the D750 was more like a D650 and the new D780 is actually a D680. Neither body seems like the pro camera the D700 was when it was released. I don't get why Nikon all of a sudden doesn't make grips? Nikon alienates customers each time they take something away. Now customers who might of been interested in the D780, might look elsewhere and it might not be a Nikon camera.
If Nikon wants to make money, why not keep consistency throughout the camera line? ...Show more →
I've long thought the D750 was designed as the successor to the D600, but the D600 fiasco and late release of the D610 messed up those plans and thus the D750 was badged as the D750 instead so Nikon could make some money off the D610 and save face.
This matches the fact that the D600 was closely related to the D7000 and the D750 shows clear commonality with the D7100 aside from the flip screen.
Nikon got allergic to grips leading up to 2017 and the D7500 release. Seems to be a simple and lousy reaction to poor sales due to the massive price differences between Nikon's grips and 3rd party grips.
p.4 #11 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
The whole grip thing might be why I don't jump immediately on cameras. I once had a Vello grip for my D7100 and basically the cheapness of how it felt compared to the OEM grip for my D600 pretty much made sure that I got the official ones. I don't buy them new though. mawz wrote:
I've long thought the D750 was designed as the successor to the D600, but the D600 fiasco and late release of the D610 messed up those plans and thus the D750 was badged as the D750 instead so Nikon could make some money off the D610 and save face.
This matches the fact that the D600 was closely related to the D7000 and the D750 shows clear commonality with the D7100 aside from the flip screen.
Nikon got allergic to grips leading up to 2017 and the D7500 release. Seems to be a simple and lousy reaction to poor sales due to the massive price differences between Nikon's grips and 3rd party grips. ...Show more →
p.4 #12 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
JadedWriter wrote:
Yeah my biggest problem with Nikon is that they price their stuff like they don't have any form of competition. When the Z7 came out it was like $1500 more than a used A7RII, but with better ergonomics, less lenses, no second hand market, no grip and I think worse AF. I didn't even need the RII, but I couldn't say no to the black friday prices that were happening so just bought it on a whim and just kept at it until I started to like it and bought more stuff for it. Now with a $2300 780. It just feels priced out of the market. I'm awash in camera options these days. I could put that $2300 into a used A9 or if I want to get into another mount that gets me a Panasonic S1. It's almost a used D4 and a used D750 if someone needs to buy two bodies and don't care about the live view improvements. The 2020 camera market is not what it was five years ago. I'm not saying that it's dead, it's just basically jam packed with used camera options. I spend a lot on camera stuff, just none of it's new most of the time.
If you want a compact, high-end DSLR with great video capabilities, and particularly one that will AF with F-mount screwdrive lenses, there is no competition. There will be some if or when Canon launches the 5D V, but that's another lens mount.
It doesn't matter if I can buy a used D750 and D4 for the same price. None of them offers what the D780 offers, and when I go on holiday or downtown, I want one camera that does it all, not lots of stuff to fill my bags, preferably one that offers AF with my old 85mm f/1.8 AF and the brilliant old 300mm f/4 AF.
There are millions of old Nikkors out there, and the people at Nikon know that. They also know that if photographers have to buy new lenses to make their new Nikon work, they may as well buy another brand. So they come up with the D780 that supports all the old lenses but still offers most of the new hi-tech features.
They won't sell me a lot of new lenses right away of course, but they will sell me a somewhat overpriced camera, making a good profit from that. And somewhere down the road, I'll probably buy a new lens or two as well, like a $2,000 28mm f/1.4 that will make me happy and Nikon more profitable. Good for Nikon, good for me.
p.4 #13 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
And what about the camera appeals to someone without a bunch of old F mount screw drive lenses? I have F mount lenses, none of them are screw drive. If I'm doing video I have a Sony and Fuji ecosystem. Nothing about this appeals to a cross branded user. For non video uses this camera basically has the same AF as my D810 and D4. Jorgen Udvang wrote:
If you want a compact, high-end DSLR with great video capabilities, and particularly one that will AF with F-mount screwdrive lenses, there is no competition. There will be some if or when Canon launches the 5D V, but that's another lens mount.
It doesn't matter if I can buy a used D750 and D4 for the same price. None of them offers what the D780 offers, and when I go on holiday or downtown, I want one camera that does it all, not lots of stuff to fill my bags, preferably one that offers AF with my old 85mm f/1.8 AF and the brilliant old 300mm f/4 AF.
There are millions of old Nikkors out there, and the people at Nikon know that. They also know that if photographers have to buy new lenses to make their new Nikon work, they may as well buy another brand. So they come up with the D780 that supports all the old lenses but still offers most of the new hi-tech features.
They won't sell me a lot of new lenses right away of course, but they will sell me a somewhat overpriced camera, making a good profit from that. And somewhere down the road, I'll probably buy a new lens or two as well, like a $2,000 28mm f/1.4 that will make me happy and Nikon more profitable. Good for Nikon, good for me.
And if you don't like it, there's always the Z6....Show more →
p.4 #14 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
The d780 is tempting with its much improved live-view AF (my d750 live-view AF is borderline unusable and my d850 live-view AF is mediocre and only suitable for fairly static subjects) and its improved AF fine-tune (by allowing one to AF fine-tune a given zoom lens for different focal lengths, as opposed to only one focal length). However, I don't think I will be buying one, as I do mostly stills (95%), I have my AF fine-tune values nailed down for my various lenses on the d750 and d850, and because I use a mirrorless (A7RIII) for video AF. One always fantasizes about having one camera that can do it all, but the d780 isn't that, though it is getting much closer. Guess I will have to wait for the d850 successor (hopefully with battery grip and dual CF Express slots) to see whether to pull the trigger.
p.4 #15 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
ronno wrote:
First off, I did not read hogans article. I think he’s mostly just a whiner.
So Nikon should have “just retired” their best selling full frame DSLR?? The cash cow!?
I’m guessing that camera is number one or number two for wedding photographers around the world. So yes, it’s a professional camera.
Makes a lot of sense to me for them to add amazing video capabilities to this high seller - as in the new D780. I bought the original D750 for $2300, so the price of the D780 seems very fair to me.
(As an aside I am a commercial photographer, shooting in studios at Google, Williams-Sonoma, Macys, Sephora, Amazon, etc. etc.
In these studios we purchase five or 10 DSLRs at a time.
Do you know how many mirrorless cameras are in use in those studios? Zero.)...Show more →
The problem with Nikon is they like playing the bean-counter games of adding/subtracting features. I don't know any wedding photographer who straight up loved the D750 after following up from the D700. Photographers lost features such as the 1/8000th shutter, 1/250th flash sync and the 8fps with the MB-D10 when needed. Also the buffer wasn't even improved over the D600/610 it supposedly replaced.
Also I don't really care what studio photographers or even wedding photographers shoot to be honest, it's not like either scenario includes breaking news or shooting in extreme conditions while needing a sturdy portable camera setup. I shot as a freelance news stringer for over 15 years. Sitting in a comfy studio or taking snaps of a couple making kissy faces is a cake walk in comparison.
p.4 #16 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
JadedWriter wrote:
And what about the camera appeals to someone without a bunch of old F mount screw drive lenses? I have F mount lenses, none of them are screw drive. If I'm doing video I have a Sony and Fuji ecosystem. Nothing about this appeals to a cross branded user. For non video uses this camera basically has the same AF as my D810 and D4.
So it's not for you then. Fine.
For video, I have so far used Panasonic cameras. I can't wait to go back to only carrying one camera system when travelling.
p.4 #17 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
Jonathan F wrote:
The problem with Nikon is they like playing the bean-counter games of adding/subtracting features. I don't know any wedding photographer who straight up loved the D750 after following up from the D700. Photographers lost features such as the 1/8000th shutter, 1/250th flash sync and the 8fps with the MB-D10 when needed. Also the buffer wasn't even improved over the D600/610 it supposedly replaced.
Also I don't really care what studio photographers or even wedding photographers shoot to be honest, it's not like either scenario includes breaking news or shooting in extreme conditions while needing a sturdy portable camera setup. I shot as a freelance news stringer for over 15 years. Sitting in a comfy studio or taking snaps of a couple making kissy faces is a cake walk in comparison....Show more →
The D750 didn't replace the D610. The D610 is a current model and is, or at least was, cheaper than the D750.
p.4 #19 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
From what I keep hearing Panasonic's weak point is their AF system. I picked up an S1 once and the DFD wobble effect kind of gave me the feeling that a full day of it would give me a migraine. Pretty much for hybrid I'm Sony/Fuji (depends on mood, how much crap I have to carry, location and how public it is). For pure stills and if I need the battery duration I'd carry the Nikons (I'd have to be in a location where I can't even charge the batteries). Otherwise I'd just buy a couple of extra batteries and pack one of the mirrorless cameras. I pretty much only kept my Nikon kit because it's good stuff that I do like using. If I didn't have to go to sleep early for a work shoot tomorrow I would've went out and did some shooting with the D4 after being reminded just how much I like holding that damn thing. Took some test shots because I was doing an experiment with a Canon 5D4 and cross referencing it with the Nikon (Canon lost ) heard that meaty ass kerchunk of the shutter and and all came flying back to me. If they put that live view AF tech into a D850 body, I'd get it...just not on release day or even new. Would be a good indoor camera for video, outside not so much unless they got better with anti-glare screens or something since the EVF does have an advantage in that scenario. I'm not even sure what the hell I would carry for a vacation though...Fuji? Maybe just the A7RIII. I guess my problem is I actually do like having choice. Sometimes I just shoot on something for too long and I have to switch it out to keep the fun factor alive so it doesn't feel like legitimate work. Jorgen Udvang wrote:
So it's not for you then. Fine.
For video, I have so far used Panasonic cameras. I can't wait to go back to only carrying one camera system when travelling.
p.4 #20 · Hogan's article - The DSLR cash cow is alive for how long?
JadedWriter wrote:
From what I keep hearing Panasonic's weak point is their AF system.
Yeah... many who don't use Panasonic cameras on a regular basis keep hearing that. I've used their cameras for ten years, and this is something I never worry about. I don't use them for sports and action though.
) heard that meaty ass kerchunk of the shutter and and all came flying back to me. If they put that live view AF tech into a D850 body, I'd get it...just not on release day or even new. Would be a good indoor camera for video, outside not so much unless they got better with anti-glare screens or something since the EVF does have an advantage in that scenario. I'm not even sure what the hell I would carry for a vacation though...Fuji? Maybe just the A7RIII. I guess my problem is I actually do like having choice. Sometimes I just shoot on something for too long and I have to switch it out to keep the fun factor alive so it doesn't feel like legitimate work.