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Archive 2019 · Leica SL 2 announced

adamdewilde
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p.5 #1 · Leica SL 2 announced

zhangyue wrote:
Adam, did you get one for trying? I actually like SL this time. I don�t know how it compare to S1R but color is nice.

Won't buy one until Feb. I'm away most of December and the Sigma FP is a bit more suitable (because size) for my upcoming trip.

Dec 09, 2019 at 01:02 PM

zhangyue
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p.5 #2 · Leica SL 2 announced

zhangyue wrote:
There is still something I don't like about it, such as focus peaking have to be used with display option that show histogram and all other craps. You can't just turn it on or off.

Quote myself here to make a minor correction. Peaking can be selected with any display combination, SL2 give you 5 profile to display and each profile can be programmed with any combination such as peaking, level, histogram, zebra, shooting info, grid etc... in additional to that, you can disable any of the 5 profile to eliminate the cycle through choice.

This is by far the best implementation of display option out of any EVF based cameras I ever used. (Nikon Z was 2nd). I chose only full image with only peaking (very classic clean look) as one of display option, and another option is shooting info with level, histogram, zebra and peaking, pretty much every essential info for tripod shooting or hand hold landscape. That is it, I just cycle through these two in use.

There also problems for SL2. There is no choice decouple AF from shutter unless you choose Manual focus mode and set joystick to do AFc or AFs. (A leica way, which has always work perfectly for me) However, with panasonic S line glasses, if you set AF on lens, you can't set manual focus on SL2, if you set manual focus on lens, you can't AF anymore with joystick.

Another issue is DOF preview, I seems can't set preview with shooting aperture other than WO. Panasonic has this option.

Then, IBIS with 70-200f4 is quite poor on SL2 during lens testing at infinity handhold. I still investigate: is that due to focusing error, more pixels, or IBIS or Lens OIS integration with SL2 IBIS or there is some bug in my shutter speed region (I set it at 1/125 and let AutoISO does rest and lighting was poor). or Maybe I just need use silent shutter, there is no EFC in SL2. Too many variables, I think It will cost me some time to figure it out.

It perform wonderfully with M glasses and S glasses.

Somehow, I just don't have the same confidence with its IBIS as Panasonic S1 which I think it is the best but maybe I am seeing the high pixel effect? Hopefully Gordon can chime in how it compares to S1R.

Leica S 70mm Summarit

SL270-1 by ZHNL, on Flickr

SL270-2 by ZHNL, on Flickr
50APO M

sl250APO1-1 by ZHNL, on Flickr

sl250APO1-2 by ZHNL, on Flickr

sl250APO by ZHNL, on Flickr

Edited on Dec 11, 2019 at 04:49 PM · View previous versions

Dec 11, 2019 at 04:37 PM

zhangyue
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p.5 #3 · Leica SL 2 announced

Nikon 58mm f1.4 with Novoflex adapter.
WO

sl2581 by ZHNL, on Flickr

sl2582 by ZHNL, on Flickr

sl2583 by ZHNL, on Flickr

Dec 11, 2019 at 04:46 PM

zhangyue
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p.5 #4 · Leica SL 2 announced

zhangyue wrote:
IBIS with 70-200f4 is quite poor on SL2 during lens testing at infinity handhold. I still investigate: is that due to focusing error, more pixels, or IBIS or Lens OIS integration with SL2 IBIS or there is some bug in my shutter speed region (I set it at 1/125 and let AutoISO does rest and lighting was poor). or Maybe I just need use silent shutter, there is no EFC in SL2. Too many variables, I think It will cost me some time to figure it out.

Not many will care anyway, I will quote myself one more time to make it complete. I figured out why 70-200 is not perform good on SL2. It is the mechanical shutter of SL2. S1 have no such an issue given it has EFCS but not with SL2. S1's mechanical shutter (with 70-200f4) also perform way better than SL2 even SL2 has very beautiful shutter sound.

I am pretty sure if its Nikon or Canon or Sony, this problem will blow out all over the internet.

I did extensive test find out that for SL2 with 70-200 work consistently at any shots less than 1/125, I have to use e-shutter. This lens is good BTW. I haven't noticed the problem with M glasses but maybe they are not long enough to show the issue or I just didn't look for as hard.

I hate this find out stage for any new system to me, from lens to body but you all can see this is a very important step to have no surprise in field.

45mm Sigma WO

sl245 by ZHNL, on Flickr

Dec 13, 2019 at 05:50 PM

pmeheut
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p.5 #5 · Leica SL 2 announced

zhangyue wrote:
I figured out why 70-200 is not perform good on SL2. It is the mechanical shutter of SL2. S1 have no such an issue given it has EFCS but not with SL2. S1's mechanical shutter (with 70-200f4) also perform way better than SL2 even SL2 has very beautiful shutter sound.

I'm not sure it is the exact same problem but it sounds a lot like the "shutter shock" we have with micro 4/3 lenses.
I stopped using some (not all) Panasonic lenses on my Olympus bodies because of it.

Dec 13, 2019 at 06:22 PM

zhangyue
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p.5 #6 · Leica SL 2 announced

pmeheut wrote:
I'm not sure it is the exact same problem but it sounds a lot like the "shutter shock" we have with micro 4/3 lenses.
I stopped using some (not all) Panasonic lenses on my Olympus bodies because of it.

It requires more effort to figure out if it is SL2's shutter problem or just integration between the two. S1 seems don't have this issue at least not to the point I can find it out right away. But this finding will make me to use E-shutter more (when condition permit) no matter what lens used until I have more confidence about SL2's shutter and IBIS.

Dec 13, 2019 at 06:40 PM

rscheffler
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p.5 #7 · Leica SL 2 announced

It does make me wonder how closely the different parties work within the consortium towards integrating their products with one another....

Dec 14, 2019 at 01:49 AM

LBJ2
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p.5 #8 · Leica SL 2 announced

rscheffler wrote:
It does make me wonder how closely the different parties work within the consortium towards integrating their products with one another....

Just enough interest to keep us all wondering. I would never have guessed Sigma would get invited to the long time Leica/Panasonic party. Or maybe it was recently very successful/popular Sigma who invited Leica/Panasonic ha ha?

Now that I see L Alliance products coming out from all three, it does make more sense to me what they may be up to. SL IMO is unusually/unexpectedly big, Panasonic S1 is even bigger and Sigma specializes in big except when it comes to Sigma cameras ! Plenty of more surprises to come I suspect and as we all know with an interchangeable lens system it is sill about available glass no matter how much these new cameras and sensors sizzle or not.

Last but not least seems Panasonic has sold or will sell its shares of TowerJazz aka Panasonic�s image sensor business, so wondering how all of this will play out with the Alliance going forward and does this mean perhaps other partners will join the alliance too?

https://petapixel.com/2019/12/02/towerjazz-will-not-sell-its-half-of-the-panasonic-image-sensor-partnership/

Dec 14, 2019 at 08:50 AM

snapsy
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p.5 #9 · Leica SL 2 announced

zhangyue wrote:
Not many will care anyway, I will quote myself one more time to make it complete. I figured out why 70-200 is not perform good on SL2. It is the mechanical shutter of SL2. S1 have no such an issue given it has EFCS but not with SL2. S1's mechanical shutter (with 70-200f4) also perform way better than SL2 even SL2 has very beautiful shutter sound.

I am pretty sure if its Nikon or Canon or Sony, this problem will blow out all over the internet.

I did extensive test find out that for SL2 with 70-200 work consistently at...Show more →

Thanks for the update. It's ridiculous the SL2 doesn't have an EFCS. Mirrorless bodies are particularly prone to shutter shock because they have to first close the second mechanical curtain before starting an exposure (since the first curtain is open to support full-time live view) and the vibration that operation resonates during the subsequent exposure after the first mechanical curtain is opened. Another downside to fully mechanical curtains on mirrorless is it doubles the amount of wear on the shutter.

Dec 14, 2019 at 09:32 AM

zhangyue
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p.5 #10 · Leica SL 2 announced

All true. This become one of biggest flaws I found so far. Not a deal breaker but bad enough.

snapsy wrote:
Thanks for the update. It's ridiculous the SL2 doesn't have an EFCS. Mirrorless bodies are particularly prone to shutter shock because they have to first close the second mechanical curtain before starting an exposure (since the first curtain is open to support full-time live view) and the vibration that operation resonates during the subsequent exposure after the first mechanical curtain is opened. Another downside to fully mechanical curtains on mirrorless is it doubles the amount of wear on the shutter.

Edited on Dec 14, 2019 at 11:24 AM · View previous versions

Dec 14, 2019 at 11:20 AM

zhangyue
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p.5 #11 · Leica SL 2 announced

Not as good as you would think. Panasonic camera has option to set FBW lens to 90-360degree turn. I don�t see it works for sigma.
Then Leica SL can�t take sigma mc21. I havent pay attention to SL2 yet.

rscheffler wrote:
It does make me wonder how closely the different parties work within the consortium towards integrating their products with one another....

Dec 14, 2019 at 11:24 AM

zhangyue
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p.5 #12 · Leica SL 2 announced

But M and S glasses support is as good as you can dream. All EXIF, m lens also have guessing aperture.

I also just did test on all my S glasses on SL2 on tripod. They are all sharp to FF corner wide open. 70 reach peak at f5.6 cross frame. 35/100/120 around f4. but all of them resolve 47M sensor well and there is no corner issue. For peak sharpness with no DOF limitation, f5.6 is magic, f8 is gold and f11 you can notice downgrade clearly. I am not a pixel PP but very picky during technical test as I need understand my gear right to use it wisely. (I also tested all my M glasses)

I believe SL summicron will be sharper at wider aperture as Leica claim they were build for 100M FF sensor. I trust them from what I saw on their MTF. Based on my thinking, they don't need f4~5.6 to reach peak but who really care, I don't, as I need DOF most of time for cross frame sharpness. For portrait, S glasses are sharp enough for most of frame start from WO even at 47M.

In short, S glasses are more than enough to cover 64M 45X30 sensor or FF 50M. There is no flaw on whole set of S. I can't even pick which one or ones are sharper during evaluation if I am at f5.6.

Dec 14, 2019 at 11:28 AM

joakim
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p.5 #13 · Leica SL 2 announced

Michael, thank you for your reports on your findings and opinions on the SL2. A lot of useful information, personally I still on the fence about getting one but the combined M and S platform is intriguing.

Dec 14, 2019 at 12:15 PM

zhangyue
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p.5 #14 · Leica SL 2 announced

Thanks, Joakim, for you recommend SL2 is a easy recommendation. For most others, Z or S1 seem a better fit IMHO.
joakim wrote:
Michael, thank you for your reports on your findings and opinions on the SL2. A lot of useful information, personally I still on the fence about getting one but the combined M and S platform is intriguing.

Dec 14, 2019 at 12:47 PM

B Landau
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p.5 #15 · Leica SL 2 announced

I just bought the MC-21 adapter for my Panasonic S-1 today after checking out compatibility with a couple of Zeiss lenses I own. While at the store I checked out Leica SL2 for fun. I can report that manual focus Zeiss EF mount glass communicates just fine with the SL2 using the MC-21. I have to admit that the SL2 is beautiful camera - it just has price tag that is out of my league!

Jan 11, 2020 at 02:32 AM

zhangyue
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p.5 #16 · Leica SL 2 announced

Well, after a trip with SL2, I think this is NOT the best MILC camera I ever used but certainly my favorite MILC camera to date, go figure

Since got it, I haven�t pick up S1 or Z7 and I don�t see myself want to pick them in near future. Time to do a little change for my systems.

In recent China trip, I was able to test both Sony A7r4 and A9. First time to handle both actually. Haha, not seeing myself going that routine any time soon. If I am honest here, there is not much changed for overall experience to access and control the body since A7r2 I had as soon as I put it in hand. Admitting AF is definitely the best I ever seen in mirrorless body, too pity it is not in my need list. I will get burned for saying this here to offend my Sony friends, but well, FYI only if it worth 2c.

You want your camera as simple as possible, trust me.

Jan 11, 2020 at 05:12 PM

maxx9photo
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p.5 #17 · Leica SL 2 announced

zhangyue wrote:
Well, after a trip with SL2, I think this is NOT the best MILC camera I ever used but certainly my favorite MILC camera to date, go figure

You want your camera as simple as possible, trust me.

So what's missing on your standpoint? I'm still on the waitlist and in no hurry to get the SL2. On the other hands, I'd be more radical and might go with Hasselblad X1D II.

Jan 12, 2020 at 11:08 AM

zhangyue
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p.5 #18 · Leica SL 2 announced

Not much missing. The EVF implementation can be better. Especially 100% view is lack sharpness.
Crop ratio can�t be programmed to button. NO EFCS is one of bigger issues for this body. Long exposure hot pixel is another big issue for me but I don�t do more than 1 min exposure much.
I absolutely love its ergonomics, especially with M glasses, EXIF retained and technical performance is almost as good as M.
Not the most comfort body to hold or small or light. (Z with bracket is the best In hand so far for me) however,The simple control is so awesome make me don�t want pick Z or S1.
I expect most quirks will be addressed in the future but I love it as is for now.
I have to say Panasonic did most of hard work. This is a perfect body that tailor my need. I can't expect better but I can�t say for sure that it will meet many�s need especially compare modern Sony or Nikon in term of lens choice and AF tech.

maxx9photo wrote:
So what's missing on your standpoint? I'm still on the waitlist and in no hurry to get the SL2. On the other hands, I'd be more radical and might go with Hasselblad X1D II.

Jan 12, 2020 at 01:16 PM

AndereObjektiv
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p.5 #19 · Leica SL 2 announced

Interesting news from all of you. Thanks especially for the report of m and s glass zhangyue. It's not surprising that you had best results with s glass @ f/5.6 as the 47.5mp sensor is diffraction limited around f/6.1 for 0.565�m yellow green light. For depth of field for landscapes focus stacking will provide better sharpness, at the expense of more exposures and more chances to misfocus during stacking. For sure the lens diffraction seems to increase above f/9 faster than sensor diffraction is noticeable at above f/6.1.

There is also an hasselblad h adapter for the L mount.

Having α9, z7 and s1r in hand I have found I prefer the panasonic (!) the best, even with all it's buttons. I will keep all, as they each have their strengths. I am considering the SL2 for all the strengths it has, most especially the color science.

For camera simplicity, I will choose the hasselblad 907x with it's 16bit non-pdaf CFV II 50C MFDB sensor. Very few buttons, 60fps live view, tethered live view output for critical focusing, amazing color science and usable on my tech cams.

Like Adam, I like the size of the fp, and am dreaming of an fp with summicron-m 35 or pentax 43 limited for walkabout street stealth.

One question zhangyue, have you tried the s adapter l on the panasonic s1? Do the s lenses work on the panasonic?

Jan 12, 2020 at 03:10 PM

ocean2059
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p.5 #20 · Leica SL 2 announced

AndereObjektiv wrote:
Interesting news from all of you. Thanks especially for the report of m and s glass zhangyue. It's not surprising that you had best results with s glass @ f/5.6 as the 47.5mp sensor is diffraction limited around f/6.1 for 0.565�m yellow green light. For depth of field for landscapes focus stacking will provide better sharpness, at the expense of more exposures and more chances to misfocus during stacking. For sure the lens diffraction seems to increase above f/9 faster than sensor diffraction is noticeable at above f/6.1.

There is also an hasselblad h adapter for the L mount.

Having α9,...Show more →

I am not Michael (zhangyue) but I have tried the S adapter on Panasonic S1/r and the AF doesn't work. Of cause, it works with MF. The AF speed for S lenses on Leica SL is pretty slow. I don't have the SL2 so I cannot comment on its AF speed for Leica S lenses.

Jan 12, 2020 at 04:39 PM

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