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Archive 2019Leica SL 2 announced
p.3 #1Leica SL 2 announced
adamdewilde wrote:
I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...Hahaha the S-008/S3 (missing from the market so long I've lost track of it's name) will have worse AF than all the mentioned cameras but I'm sure you'd use it a lot more than most if someone dropped it on your lap 
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.
I am not sure I can afford or have willing to get S3 but for sure this SL2 is more attractive than SL did 4 years ago to me. Plus SL2 will have Maestro III, 2.1M LCD compare to S3's old Maestro II and 1M LCD that is pathetic. From hardware point of view, SL2 meet most of my requirements given the fact I like PanaS1 mostly minus complicated/confusion menu system.
zhangyue wrote
Panasonic S1 do AF jittery in AFC even with their native 70-200f4. (and sometimes refuse to adjust focus unless you changed frame/composition and stuck at close or long distance) However, the images seems sharp most of time if subject has reasonable distance. This is because focus refresh speed is more than EVF feed can handle. PDAF don;t have this issue because it is open loop that not require continue adjust based on trial and error.I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.
I am not sure I can afford or have willing to get S3 but for sure this SL2 is more attractive than SL did 4 years ago to me. Plus SL2 will have Maestro III, 2.1M LCD compare to S3's old Maestro II and 1M LCD that is pathetic. From hardware point of view, SL2 meet most of my requirements given the fact I like PanaS1 mostly minus complicated/confusion menu system.
Nov 08, 2019 at 12:41 AM
p.3 #2Leica SL 2 announced
zhangyue wrote:
I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...Hahaha the S-008/S3 (missing from the market so long I've lost track of it's name) will have worse AF than all the mentioned cameras but I'm sure you'd use it a lot more than most if someone dropped it on your lap
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.I am not sure I can afford or have willing to get S3 but for sure this SL2 is more attractive than SL did 4 years ago to me. Plus SL2 will have Maestro III, 2.1M LCD compare to S3's old Maestro II and 1M LCD that is pathetic. From hardware point of view, SL2 meet most of my requirements given the fact I like PanaS1 mostly minus complicated/confusion menu system.
If I bought the S3 it would only be because focus is really truly better (and when I tested the S3 briefly it was really good but not up to current industry standards, though it was very pre-production).. So I'll probably have to wait for a mirrorless S before I can justify spending so much $$.
I still don't know if I'll get the SL2, as I was telling you I'd sooner wait and see how I get along with the FP on my ski trip.
adamdewilde wrote
zhangyue wrote
Panasonic S1 do AF jittery in AFC even with their native 70-200f4. (and sometimes refuse to adjust focus unless you changed frame/composition and stuck at close or long distance) However, the images seems sharp most of time if subject has reasonable distance. This is because focus refresh speed is more than EVF feed can handle. PDAF don;t have this issue because it is open loop that not require continue adjust based on trial and error.I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.
If I bought the S3 it would only be because focus is really truly better (and when I tested the S3 briefly it was really good but not up to current industry standards, though it was very pre-production).. So I'll probably have to wait for a mirrorless S before I can justify spending so much $$.
I still don't know if I'll get the SL2, as I was telling you I'd sooner wait and see how I get along with the FP on my ski trip.
Nov 08, 2019 at 07:27 AM
p.3 #3Leica SL 2 announced
rscheffler wrote:
US $5995.
S1R in Leica clothing...
https://leicarumors.com/2019/11/08/the-making-of-the-leica-sl2-camera-in-pictures.aspx/
US $5995.
S1R in Leica clothing...
https://leicarumors.com/2019/11/08/the-making-of-the-leica-sl2-camera-in-pictures.aspx/
Nov 08, 2019 at 09:41 AM
p.3 #4Leica SL 2 announced
adamdewilde wrote:
I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...Hahaha the S-008/S3 (missing from the market so long I've lost track of it's name) will have worse AF than all the mentioned cameras but I'm sure you'd use it a lot more than most if someone dropped it on your lap
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.I am not sure I can afford or have willing to get S3 but for sure this SL2 is more attractive than SL did 4 years ago to me. Plus SL2 will have Maestro III, 2.1M LCD compare to S3's old Maestro II and 1M LCD that is pathetic. From hardware point of view, SL2 meet most of my requirements given the fact I like PanaS1 mostly minus complicated/confusion menu system.If I bought the S3 it would only be because focus is really truly better (and when I tested the S3 briefly it was really good but not up to current industry standards, though it was very pre-production).. So I'll probably have to wait for a mirrorless S before I can justify spending so much $$.
I still don't know if I'll get the SL2, as I was telling you I'd sooner wait and see how I get along with the FP on my ski trip.
I'm betting you will get one
Then... you will sell it...
zhangyue wrote
adamdewilde wrote
zhangyue wrote
Panasonic S1 do AF jittery in AFC even with their native 70-200f4. (and sometimes refuse to adjust focus unless you changed frame/composition and stuck at close or long distance) However, the images seems sharp most of time if subject has reasonable distance. This is because focus refresh speed is more than EVF feed can handle. PDAF don;t have this issue because it is open loop that not require continue adjust based on trial and error.I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.
I still don't know if I'll get the SL2, as I was telling you I'd sooner wait and see how I get along with the FP on my ski trip.
I'm betting you will get one
Then... you will sell it...
Nov 08, 2019 at 09:44 AM
p.3 #5Leica SL 2 announced
Donzo98 wrote:
I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...Hahaha the S-008/S3 (missing from the market so long I've lost track of it's name) will have worse AF than all the mentioned cameras but I'm sure you'd use it a lot more than most if someone dropped it on your lap
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.I am not sure I can afford or have willing to get S3 but for sure this SL2 is more attractive than SL did 4 years ago to me. Plus SL2 will have Maestro III, 2.1M LCD compare to S3's old Maestro II and 1M LCD that is pathetic. From hardware point of view, SL2 meet most of my requirements given the fact I like PanaS1 mostly minus complicated/confusion menu system.If I bought the S3 it would only be because focus is really truly better (and when I tested the S3 briefly it was really good but not up to current industry standards, though it was very pre-production).. So I'll probably have to wait for a mirrorless S before I can justify spending so much $$.
I still don't know if I'll get the SL2, as I was telling you I'd sooner wait and see how I get along with the FP on my ski trip.I'm betting you will get one
Then... you will sell it...
you're absolutely correct.
adamdewilde wrote
zhangyue wrote
adamdewilde wrote
zhangyue wrote
Panasonic S1 do AF jittery in AFC even with their native 70-200f4. (and sometimes refuse to adjust focus unless you changed frame/composition and stuck at close or long distance) However, the images seems sharp most of time if subject has reasonable distance. This is because focus refresh speed is more than EVF feed can handle. PDAF don;t have this issue because it is open loop that not require continue adjust based on trial and error.I can safely say that this camera is not for anyone heavily rely AFC performance. The same as Panasonic S1. I don't mind it at all personally, though I would say Nikon Z's AF performance especially eye face tracking implementation is miles better than S1 and I think that would have been the standard I am happily accept even it is not as good as latest Sony.
However, I do pick up S1 more than Z and enjoy shooting it more general speaking, well, but that could be personal...
I get what you say about the Nikon though I really did love it's through the viewfinder implementation. It's one of the things I didn't love about the SL and hate about the S1.
I still don't know if I'll get the SL2, as I was telling you I'd sooner wait and see how I get along with the FP on my ski trip.
Then... you will sell it...
you're absolutely correct.Nov 08, 2019 at 12:15 PM
p.3 #6Leica SL 2 announced
LBJ2 wrote:
S1R in Leica clothing...https://leicarumors.com/2019/11/08/the-making-of-the-leica-sl2-camera-in-pictures.aspx/
It definitely is... Panasonic provides the middle part of the camera, Leica puts the top and bottom plates on. But really is there much wrong with that?
I'd pay more for better ergonomics a better though the EVF experience and better menus. I bought the FP even though the S1 is a better camera all around. I just prefer the smaller size and lack of useless to me functions. Admittedly I have an S1 too but I'll probably sell it now that the SL2 is around the corner and since I get along well with the FP.
rscheffler wrote
US $5995.S1R in Leica clothing...
It definitely is... Panasonic provides the middle part of the camera, Leica puts the top and bottom plates on. But really is there much wrong with that?
I'd pay more for better ergonomics a better though the EVF experience and better menus. I bought the FP even though the S1 is a better camera all around. I just prefer the smaller size and lack of useless to me functions. Admittedly I have an S1 too but I'll probably sell it now that the SL2 is around the corner and since I get along well with the FP.
Nov 08, 2019 at 12:19 PM
p.3 #7Leica SL 2 announced
Just curious and not that I personally care one way or the other, but how does anyone know the SL2's internals come from Panasonic? Or just forum conjecture?
Nov 08, 2019 at 12:24 PM
p.3 #8Leica SL 2 announced
I agree with you. It remove one of biggest concern with Leica digital cameras: electronics reliability 
Panasonic did many thing right with their body ( so right that I prefer use it to others) but menu and sea of features are let down for user experience.
For users require other Leica product support such as M, R, S, SL. This seems a very solid product. Best of all, it finally offers the best or one of best IQ especially with native SL cron to justify its price BETTER.
adamdewilde wrote:
S1R in Leica clothing...https://leicarumors.com/2019/11/08/the-making-of-the-leica-sl2-camera-in-pictures.aspx/It definitely is... Panasonic provides the middle part of the camera, Leica puts the top and bottom plates on. But really is there much wrong with that?
I'd pay more for better ergonomics a better though the EVF experience and better menus. I bought the FP even though the S1 is a better camera all around. I just prefer the smaller size and lack of useless to me functions. Admittedly I have an S1 too but I'll probably sell it now that the SL2 is around the corner and since I get along well with the FP.
Panasonic did many thing right with their body ( so right that I prefer use it to others) but menu and sea of features are let down for user experience.
For users require other Leica product support such as M, R, S, SL. This seems a very solid product. Best of all, it finally offers the best or one of best IQ especially with native SL cron to justify its price BETTER.
adamdewilde wrote:
LBJ2 wrote
rscheffler wrote
US $5995.S1R in Leica clothing...
I'd pay more for better ergonomics a better though the EVF experience and better menus. I bought the FP even though the S1 is a better camera all around. I just prefer the smaller size and lack of useless to me functions. Admittedly I have an S1 too but I'll probably sell it now that the SL2 is around the corner and since I get along well with the FP.
Nov 08, 2019 at 12:27 PM
p.3 #9Leica SL 2 announced
LBJ2 wrote:
Just curious and not that I personally care one way or the other, but how does anyone know the SL2's internals come from Panasonic? Or just forum conjecture?
Knowing the history between Leica and Panasonic, it will most likely. But Leica do some of their own tweak (softwares, etc).
Just curious and not that I personally care one way or the other, but how does anyone know the SL2's internals come from Panasonic? Or just forum conjecture?
Knowing the history between Leica and Panasonic, it will most likely. But Leica do some of their own tweak (softwares, etc).
Nov 08, 2019 at 01:34 PM
p.3 #10Leica SL 2 announced
LBJ2 wrote:
Just curious and not that I personally care one way or the other, but how does anyone know the SL2's internals come from Panasonic? Or just forum conjecture?
Same resolution sensor, many same features (super-res multi-shot), they're in a shared system partnership and Leica has rebadged Panasonic's higher end P&S and 'bridge' cameras for ages.
I agree with Michael, I'd rather see this than something like a poorly outsourced effort like the M8 and M9's electronics. At least it should be pretty reliable and with less quirks than in-houe efforts. Some time ago people were saying Leica should give up making cameras and concentrate on what they do best: lenses (also for use on other brands). To a degree, this is what the SL is and the L-Mount alliance has become, leaving Leica sufficient resources to continue with the system that really matters: M.
Just curious and not that I personally care one way or the other, but how does anyone know the SL2's internals come from Panasonic? Or just forum conjecture?
Same resolution sensor, many same features (super-res multi-shot), they're in a shared system partnership and Leica has rebadged Panasonic's higher end P&S and 'bridge' cameras for ages.
I agree with Michael, I'd rather see this than something like a poorly outsourced effort like the M8 and M9's electronics. At least it should be pretty reliable and with less quirks than in-houe efforts. Some time ago people were saying Leica should give up making cameras and concentrate on what they do best: lenses (also for use on other brands). To a degree, this is what the SL is and the L-Mount alliance has become, leaving Leica sufficient resources to continue with the system that really matters: M.
Nov 08, 2019 at 06:06 PM
p.3 #11Leica SL 2 announced
This video appears to present the S1/SL, Panasonic/Leica relationship as a certainty?
Nov 08, 2019 at 06:12 PM
p.3 #12Leica SL 2 announced
LBJ2 wrote:
This video appears to present the S1/SL, Panasonic/Leica relationship as a certainty?
I think the reviewer's observations are spot on. However, nobody seems to have told him that the SL2 was not designed to compete against the upcoming Nikon D6.
This video appears to present the S1/SL, Panasonic/Leica relationship as a certainty?
I think the reviewer's observations are spot on. However, nobody seems to have told him that the SL2 was not designed to compete against the upcoming Nikon D6.
Nov 08, 2019 at 06:37 PM
p.3 #13Leica SL 2 announced
Leica needs to make cameras because nobody else makes cameras for short distance exit pupils. And short distance exit pupils are key to enable Leica to design excellent lenses that are much smaller than the competition. But they really should include phase detect AF in the next iteration.
rscheffler wrote:
Same resolution sensor, many same features (super-res multi-shot), they're in a shared system partnership and Leica has rebadged Panasonic's higher end P&S and 'bridge' cameras for ages.
I agree with Michael, I'd rather see this than something like a poorly outsourced effort like the M8 and M9's electronics. At least it should be pretty reliable and with less quirks than in-houe efforts. Some time ago people were saying Leica should give up making cameras and concentrate on what they do best: lenses (also for use on other brands). To a degree, this is what the SL is and the L-Mount alliance...Show more →
rscheffler wrote:
LBJ2 wrote
Just curious and not that I personally care one way or the other, but how does anyone know the SL2's internals come from Panasonic? Or just forum conjecture?I agree with Michael, I'd rather see this than something like a poorly outsourced effort like the M8 and M9's electronics. At least it should be pretty reliable and with less quirks than in-houe efforts. Some time ago people were saying Leica should give up making cameras and concentrate on what they do best: lenses (also for use on other brands). To a degree, this is what the SL is and the L-Mount alliance...Show more →
Nov 08, 2019 at 06:42 PM
p.3 #14Leica SL 2 announced
I told Stefan Daniel that the biggest failure of their joint effort with Panasonic is that they will never have hybrid AF. He laughed and said "we will see what happens with the SL2" and we've now seen and his answer is a rebadged DFD system. I highly doubt that the Huawei/Leica software alliance is helping Leica create a better than DFD system of their own, I'm fairly certain the DFD equivalent in the Leica is just a Panasonic package of algorithms.
Nov 08, 2019 at 08:32 PM
p.3 #15Leica SL 2 announced
Leica can always claim they put highest priority on sensor IQ. Till now, there is still IQ degrade with on sensor PDAF.
Again, even if their AF engine is good enough, I have doubt about their AF motor and control speed etc...
For anyone want best AF and fast tracking, A9 seems the only option so far, but is that you want for your camera?Other than that, FP, S, SL, Z or R or even A7x just 6 for one and half dozen for the other IMHO. Yeh, there is difference but really doesn’t make huge difference for my usage.
adamdewilde wrote:
I told Stefan Daniel that the biggest failure of their joint effort with Panasonic is that they will never have hybrid AF. He laughed and said "we will see what happens with the SL2" and we've now seen and his answer is a rebadged DFD system. I highly doubt that the Huawei/Leica software alliance is helping Leica create a better than DFD system of their own, I'm fairly certain the DFD equivalent in the Leica is just a Panasonic package of algorithms.
Again, even if their AF engine is good enough, I have doubt about their AF motor and control speed etc...
For anyone want best AF and fast tracking, A9 seems the only option so far, but is that you want for your camera?Other than that, FP, S, SL, Z or R or even A7x just 6 for one and half dozen for the other IMHO. Yeh, there is difference but really doesn’t make huge difference for my usage.
adamdewilde wrote:
I told Stefan Daniel that the biggest failure of their joint effort with Panasonic is that they will never have hybrid AF. He laughed and said "we will see what happens with the SL2" and we've now seen and his answer is a rebadged DFD system. I highly doubt that the Huawei/Leica software alliance is helping Leica create a better than DFD system of their own, I'm fairly certain the DFD equivalent in the Leica is just a Panasonic package of algorithms.
Nov 08, 2019 at 09:11 PM
p.3 #16Leica SL 2 announced
Any thoughts about who makes the sensor in the SL2? Is it the 47mp sensor that is used in the Panasonic S1R and/or the Nikon Z7, although with offset microlenses? Is it made by Sony?
Nov 08, 2019 at 09:46 PM
p.3 #17Leica SL 2 announced
bjornthun wrote:
Any thoughts about who makes the sensor in the SL2? Is it the 47mp sensor that is used in the Panasonic S1R and/or the Nikon Z7, although with offset microlenses? Is it made by Sony?
The Nikon Z7 has a 45 MP sensor that seems to be made by Sony with tweaks designed by Nikon. The Panasonic S1R has a different sensor and it is not clear who makes it and it has slightly higher resolution at 47 MP. It will be interesting to see how different the Leica SL2 sensor is from the Panny S1R sensor.
Any thoughts about who makes the sensor in the SL2? Is it the 47mp sensor that is used in the Panasonic S1R and/or the Nikon Z7, although with offset microlenses? Is it made by Sony?
The Nikon Z7 has a 45 MP sensor that seems to be made by Sony with tweaks designed by Nikon. The Panasonic S1R has a different sensor and it is not clear who makes it and it has slightly higher resolution at 47 MP. It will be interesting to see how different the Leica SL2 sensor is from the Panny S1R sensor.
Nov 08, 2019 at 11:46 PM
p.3 #18Leica SL 2 announced
LBJ2 wrote:
This video appears to present the S1/SL, Panasonic/Leica relationship as a certainty?
The presenter also writes as fact in the comments to his video that Leica is phasing out M lenses and in another comment moving out of M lenses.
Dr Kaufmann said in a recent interview/video: "Leica M will be around ten years from now. No IBIS no AF, but its small and uses every lens since 1954. "It's an iconic product for people who know how to shoot pictures."
This video appears to present the S1/SL, Panasonic/Leica relationship as a certainty?
The presenter also writes as fact in the comments to his video that Leica is phasing out M lenses and in another comment moving out of M lenses.
Dr Kaufmann said in a recent interview/video: "Leica M will be around ten years from now. No IBIS no AF, but its small and uses every lens since 1954. "It's an iconic product for people who know how to shoot pictures."
Nov 09, 2019 at 05:25 AM
p.3 #19Leica SL 2 announced
LBJ2 wrote:
The presenter also writes as fact in the comments to his video that Leica is phasing out M lenses and in another comment moving out of M lenses.
The comments are very funny indeed, most of them
The presenter also writes as fact in the comments to his video that Leica is phasing out M lenses and in another comment moving out of M lenses.
The comments are very funny indeed, most of them
Nov 09, 2019 at 06:29 AM
p.3 #20Leica SL 2 announced
Phasing out M camera and phasing out M lenses is not the same thing. You can use M lenses on the Sigma fp (technically, and it would be possible to install a Leica sensor with special microlenses in that form factor). In my view, there will be a market for the M lenses even without rangefinder cameras, not least because they are so cheap - a lot cheaper than SL lenses, that is... with some exceptions... well, it's kind of a bargain for a Leica product.
Nov 09, 2019 at 04:16 PM