p.53 #1 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Sign of the times? We all see the same headlines regarding this industry on a regular basis. From ever shrinking customer base for years now to a current shortage of parts and chips globally.
Regardless, Zeiss has so much glass out there in circulation both used and new covering all kinds of FLs already. What exactly are people missing from Zeiss at the moment other than the excitement of reading about new lens rumors on the internet? The new Canon and Nikon mirrorless are closed mounts...Again. I am sure Canon, Nikon mirrorless users are adapting Zeiss DSLR old and new Zeiss lenses regardless.
This is not an apologist statement. Nor an emotional statement. Like most of you, I have no idea what's going on at Zeiss from the not so quiet announcement, to go where the camera money is for now which last we were told by Zeiss was/is Cine and apparently not photography. Was anyone surprised to learn about lack of Zeiss DSLR lens sales?
Sure it would be exciting to read new Zeiss lens rumors on the forum. But would a few new Zeiss photography lenses here and there float the shrinking market or result in any substantial ROI for Zeiss?
Personally, I'd like to see that very high end Zeiss mirrorless lens rumor that floated the internet begin to fulfill at some point, that would certainly be an exciting topic for the forums, but not sure I would want to be the one standing before the Zeiss board of directors committing the success of such a product in 2021.
p.53 #2 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Fred Miranda wrote:
...I don't even think Zeiss is interested in developing new lenses for mirrorless anymore.
Agreed. Their annual report* speaks to the bleak market for still camera lenses.
"Sales of camera lenses have irreversibly shrunk to a niche market around the world..."
It's fair to assume that this sentiment drives their planning for the consumer lens portion of the company. (a very small part of Zeiss, btw)
I view the ZX1 as an experiment to see if they could pivot to the luxury goods market, where margins are much better than the commoditized still photography market. Due to their unique corporate structure (they are owned by a foundation) Zeiss has less pressure to produce short term returns than a typical company. This allows them to take risks like the ZX1 without major consequences if it doesn't work out.
I'm sad to think there may not be new Zeiss lenses coming, but won't be surprised at all.
p.53 #3 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
I think it simple, Zeiss just does not care about still-photography product anymore. From my understanding it is industrial lenses that brining Zeiss the big bucks, especially providing solutions for semiconductor manufacturing. They have all sorts of crazy technology that makes making consumer lenses like child's play. For this point of view I would say Zeiss is actually much more successful than Leica both in terms of business and technological achievement. I'm sure they could have completely ditch the still photography segment and only keep it for the sake of tradition or public visibility.
So I guess ZX1 is just like a mini project which does not need to have any commercial success. Maybe not losing too much money is the only goal. So they can only aim at grabbing those few rich enthusiasts for whom $3000 and $6000 is not making much difference.
p.53 #4 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
MikeEvangelist wrote:
Agreed. Their annual report* speaks to the bleak market for still camera lenses.
"Sales of camera lenses have irreversibly shrunk to a niche market around the world..."
It's fair to assume that this sentiment drives their planning for the consumer lens portion of the company. (a very small part of Zeiss, btw)
I view the ZX1 as an experiment to see if they could pivot to the luxury goods market, where margins are much better than the commoditized still photography market. Due to their unique corporate structure (they are owned by a foundation) Zeiss has less pressure to produce short term returns than a typical company. This allows them to take risks like the ZX1 without major consequences if it doesn't work out.
I'm sad to think there may not be new Zeiss lenses coming, but won't be surprised at all.
"After a positive start to the year, the market for cine lenses virtually ceased in fiscal year 2019/20 because almost all film productions worldwide were brought to an abrupt halt by the COVID-19 pandemic. From a long-term perspective, the uninterrupted demand for content will have a positive effect. By contrast, the market for camera lenses shrank significantly and irreversibly, mainly as a result of increasing smartphone photography. The markets for sports optics and nature observation grew slightly and recovered again quickly from the slump during lockdown."
p.53 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
genji wrote:
Difficult to imagine how that could occur since, unlike Zeiss's still photography division, CV has competent management. Whereas Zeiss obviously does not.
Why do you say this? Because Zeiss doesn't make anymore lenses for you. Looking at the latest financials, they look pretty good considering Covid...I'd say Zeiss management is doing pretty damn good.
p.53 #7 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
See my above post.
It was said jokingly—note the emoji.
But, more seriously, we are not talking about Zeiss in its totality. We are interested in the stills photography division (FM is mostly an online enthusiasts forum and marketplace) and this is specifically a ZX1 thread. And in that context, I think the ZX1 wildly missed the mark of even relative success. Very poor managerial decision to invest resources on this way. I think Zeiss would prefer their millions back rather than bad press, 3 years of delays and this product generally.
p.53 #8 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
nehemiahphoto wrote:
It was said jokingly—note the emoji.
But, more seriously, we are not talking about Zeiss in its totality. We are interested in the stills photography division (FM is mostly an online enthusiasts forum and marketplace) and this is specifically a ZX1 thread. And in that context, I think the ZX1 wildly missed the mark of even relative success. Very poor managerial decision to invest resources on this way. I think Zeiss would prefer their millions back rather than bad press, 3 years of delays and this product generally.
Depends if they can use the R&D that went into this product in other products. Having managed products in a high tech company, much of the R&D is shared across product lines, even in different markets. Looking through the window standing outside your view might be right...but you have zero understanding what things look like from the inside.
p.53 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
Depends if they can use the R&D that went into this product in other products. Having managed products in a high tech company, much of the R&D is shared across product lines, even in different markets. Looking through the window standing outside your view might be right...but you have zero understanding what things look like from the inside.
1) Do you think Zeiss is happy with the ZX1 at this point?
2) If Zeiss knew the ZX1 would be where is it as we close 2021, would they have produced it?
3) Are you looking through the window as well or are you inside Zeiss?
p.53 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
AcuteShadows wrote:
ZX1 is not a meaningful risk for Zeiss. Probably a single major industrial/science project is more risky for Zeiss' overall business.
A good strategy is to test out new ideas or technology in a segment of your business that is not critical to the company. If it fails, nothing is hurt, but maybe some valuable r&d was achieved that can the applied to other parts of your business. This happens all the time…especially in technical companies.
p.53 #14 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
Why do you say this? Because Zeiss doesn't make anymore lenses for you. Looking at the latest financials, they look pretty good considering Covid...I'd say Zeiss management is doing pretty damn good.
You might want to take a quick refresher course in reading comprehension. My post specifically referred to the management of “Zeiss's still photography division” not of Zeiss overall.
p.53 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
A good strategy is to test out new ideas or technology in a segment of your business that is not critical to the company. If it fails, nothing is hurt, but maybe some valuable r&d was achieved that can the applied to other parts of your business. This happens all the time…especially in technical companies.
I call BS! Just look at Zeiss's own website and how they portray the ZX1. It was not designed to be a experimental product that if it failed could help other divisions. No company invests time and money into a product expecting it to be perceived as a complete joke. Especially one with the Brand recognition like Zeiss. I don't even fault Zeiss for thinking outside the box. I was actually hoping for a Rx1riii type camera from them. But at the end of the day, any product that no one wants is a failure in it's simplest form.
p.53 #16 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
nhsonyshooter wrote:
I call BS! Just look at Zeiss's own website and how they portray the ZX1. It was not designed to be a experimental product that if it failed could help other divisions. No company invests time and money into a product expecting it to be perceived as a complete joke. Especially one with the Brand recognition like Zeiss. I don't even fault Zeiss for thinking outside the box. I was actually hoping for a Rx1riii type camera from them. But at the end of the day, any product that no one wants is a failure in it's simplest form.
Have you worked in a company that produces high tech products. There are many skunk works projects on the go all the time…many get thrown at the wall to see what sticks. One learns by doing new things…hard to advance if you just continue doing what you have for the last 50 years.
We could have called the eye focus control of the old Canon dslr cameras a failure…went into hibernation after an initial failure…but has now emerged in their flagship camera. Initial failure that did not stick might emerge as a tech that separates cameras.
p.53 #17 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
Have you worked in a company that produces high tech products. There are many skunk works projects on the go all the time…many get thrown at the wall to see what sticks. One learns by doing new things…hard to advance if you just continue doing what you have for the last 50 years.
We could have called the eye focus control of the old Canon dslr cameras a failure…went into hibernation after an initial failure…but has now emerged in their flagship camera. Initial failure that did not stick might emerge as a tech that separates cameras.
Brilliant Yup, the Zx1 is a skunk works project. Boy, I hope someone at Zeiss reads that comment
p.53 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
nhsonyshooter wrote:
aand you just showed us you did in the 80's
You are just ignorant about how high tech companies operate. Today, More than ever, companies work with new technologies on products that might never mature…many never materialize to actual products, many fail as priducts…but the goal is to learn and move forward. If companies don’t take chances…they become irrelevant. You should read up on this to educate yourself. Look up many of the initial incarnations of successful products and you’d be amazed how many looked like dogs on initial release.
Anyways, I don’t want a pissing match here. Only time will tell if any of this tech in the Zx1 will make it into future Zeiss products.
Yup, the Zx1 is a skunk works project. Boy, I hope someone at Zeiss reads that comment