p.40 #3 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
ilkka_nissila wrote:
What extra steps would the ZX1 introduce in your workflow?
By making me use a clunky camera with small screen to edit RAW files with, like, 6 sliders. I'd rather have a JPEG. If it was an image I actually cared about, there's no way I'd waste 37mp of FF glory doing that. Just make it easier for me to get it onto a superior editing device. Uploading images still requires that I have a phone to hotspot; if I'm in WiFi coverage, again, why am I using an inferior editing device?
Everything else you'd describe would be far better accomplished with a seamless app that automatically transferred images to, say, an iPad Pro.
As for social media...judging by the responses, I'm one of the few that actually posts to social media from the field. It's way easier to do from my phone and I can already to that in seconds. Click on my instagram. A good number of those were posed from where they were taken. Transfer to my phone is, literally, a tap. I can quickly edit and post while I'm waiting 6 minutes for a 3 minute exposure/dark frame.
p.40 #4 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
LBJ2 wrote:
Dave, no mobile phone required.
"SHARE: when the networked full-frame camera is connected, the user can upload selected images directly to the internet – without the intermediate transfer to memory cards or other external devices. 512 GB of internal memory provide sufficient space for approximately 6,800 RAW files (DNG) or over 50,000 JPGs – more than enough to handle photos, even during a longer trip, and giving the photographer the chance to let their creativity flow. Versatile connectivity options such as Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and USB-C ensure that various peripherals can be connected. Over-the-air software updates keep the camera up to date without requiring a computer connection." https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/int/home/content/newsroom/news-overview/2018/zeiss-zx1.html
As I presented in another thread, I showed how I can transfer RAW files from the Sony A7rIV through Wifi and FTP to my mobile devices and/or server. But it's not an easy setup. Sony does not yet optimize for RAW transfer wirelessly. I don't think most even know about the RAW Sony WIFI work-around transfer capabilities I posted. Even so, Sony RAW transfer can be very slow for the large A7rIV RAW files. But again, very fast for JPEGs transfer. Or as others commented on the thread I posted, "just use your SD card as we always have." Can you imagine telling a mobile phone photographer they need to pull out their SD card and connect to their computer to transfer their files to social media . ...Show more →
The camera still needs WiFi, so yes, it'll need my phone. If I'm at home with WiFi, I'm not gonna use such a clunky, minimally featured device to edit. Too awkward. Again, I should make it clear, I think connected cameras are a phenomenal idea...but the connection should be to mindlessly get photos from my camera to a mobile device. It's one of the reasons I still shoot Sony. They nailed the best feature like 5 or 6 years ago and have done nothing to make it better haha.
As for mobile phone photographers, they're never using the ZX1, ever. They don't and will not ever know it exists, full stop. It's not designed for them. I use social media all the time. Instagram isn't the only one...Snap, Tik Tok, WhatsApp...that photo still needs to get onto my phone.
p.40 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Kalainen wrote:
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Why the defensive and difficult attitudes against the ZX1? The simple answer is that it challenges the status quo ie. how people are used to work with their products, cameras, files, post processing and such. 'The regime' and the its institutions always put up a fight against the big changes and innovations only happen when the regime is challenged. The thread simply reflects this challenge.
I think the issue is that it only challenges the status quo to people who are so deep in the status quo that they can't see how it doesn't challenge it, if that makes sense hahah
Trust me, as someone who has been surrounded by 1000s of young people for nearly 2 decades, a $6000 fixed lens camera whose main disruption is that it allows you to edit RAW in camera...uh, yeah, I'd say you're deeply in 'The Regime' if you think that's anything challenging.
Get. It. To. A. Phone. That's what young people use to interact with the world, not clunky $6k niche cameras. It's a symptom of what ails the industry, not a rebellious challenge against it.
p.40 #6 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
DougDolde wrote:
Apart from the resolution, the iPhone 12 Pro Max is far superior in every way
Yes. The iPhone 12 Pro Max is a crappy camera, but an amazing device for connectivity. Most cameras are amazing cameras and crappy devices for connectivity. Give me a seamless, well-thought out app and I'm golden!
p.40 #7 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
ZX1 images I've been able to find look very good so far. Very excellent Otus level corrections, perhaps the slightest bit of uncorrected spherical aberration in the near unfocused zone. Very well polished Aspheres. The Color Filter Array has a very nice palette, the sensor resolution is plenty for 135 format. Shutter button response is a question. Weather sealing as well.
As to the other stuff about this particular camera? Nearly every camera I own from Sony to Canon to Nikon to has tons of useless ( to me ) features like jpeg mode, or video, or wireless, or program mode or autofocus or film simulation or bracketing or a million other things I try to shut off, turn off, de-activate, ignore, never use, forget about, don't need etc. etc. etc.
Is built in lightroom useless to me? Probably. Can I bypass it and shoot raw DNG in manual mode? Yes, apparently.
Does the Lens / Sensor / Color Filter Array of the ZX1 produce unique images? Almost certainly.
OK, good to go for me.
( When shot on what just forwards to apple store I'll pay attention to phone images. )
p.40 #8 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
AndereObjektiv wrote:
ZX1 images I've been able to find look very good so far. Very excellent Otus level corrections, perhaps the slightest bit of uncorrected spherical aberration in the near unfocused zone. Very well polished Aspheres. The Color Filter Array has a very nice palette, the sensor resolution is plenty for 135 format. Shutter button response is a question. Weather sealing as well.
As to the other stuff about this particular camera? Nearly every camera I own from Sony to Canon to Nikon to has tons of useless ( to me ) features like jpeg mode, or video, or wireless, or program mode or autofocus or film simulation or bracketing or a million other things I try to shut off, turn off, de-activate, ignore, never use, forget about, don't need etc. etc. etc.
Is built in lightroom useless to me? Probably. Can I bypass it and shoot raw DNG in manual mode? Yes, apparently.
Does the Lens / Sensor / Color Filter Array of the ZX1 produce unique images? Almost certainly.
OK, good to go for me.
( When shot on what just forwards to apple store I'll pay attention to phone images. )...Show more →
I think the lens looks fantastic. It looks to me like it's been designed for rendering rather than clinical sharpness. Now, if Zeiss put that lens in a more classic, interesting body...hahaha.
p.40 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
I think the lens looks fantastic. It looks to me like it's been designed for rendering rather than clinical sharpness. Now, if Zeiss put that lens in a more classic, interesting body...hahaha.
I wonder if the ZX1 would have caused less consternation if they had released two versions: the ZX1 with LR for $6K and a ZX1 Classic without such a touchscreen heavy interface and without LR for $5500. The ZX1 Classic would compete more directly with the Leica Q2.
p.40 #10 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
teddoman wrote:
I wonder if the ZX1 would have caused less consternation if they had released two versions: the ZX1 with LR for $6K and a ZX1 Classic without a touchscreen interface and without LR for $5500. The ZX1 Classic would compete more directly with the Leica Q2.
It definitely would from me . If they had spent more time on functional ergonomics and seamless file transfer rather than in-camera RAW editing, I'd be saving my pennies. Actually, that's a lie, $6k would never fly. But I'd talk about it! And then start looking at the used market in a few years...
p.40 #11 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
It definitely would from me . If they had spent more time on functional ergonomics and seamless file transfer rather than in-camera RAW editing, I'd be saving my pennies. Actually, that's a lie, $6k would never fly. But I'd talk about it! And then start looking at the used market in a few years...
This is like the Canon R6 again. They take a feature and make all the marketing about that feature, and they receive huge blowback from that marketing as a result, causing the market to ignore the underlying camera that would have been received well if it had been sold as just the underlying camera itself.
p.40 #12 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
LBJ2 wrote:
Good point. Who actually built the ZX1 and wrote the firmware? Was it one partner or more than one partner, or did Zeiss do a some of this in-house other than the initial design( not very likely IMO). But again all very interesting to know I think.
Usual suspects?
Sony sensor ( maybe)?
European Sensor from CMOSIS and/or STMicroelectronics ?
Who might be the Made in China partners? Zeiss just announced a partnership with Vivo ( Chinese smartphone maker) I bet there are some ZX1 synergies there...maybe https://www.androidauthority.com/vivo-zeiss-1185223/
Not sure but there’s a lot of fundamental technology missing on the camera side so it’s clearly not one of the camera hardware leaders - e.g. no phase detect af, weird sigma flash compatibility and etc...probably should’ve just created it as a manual focus classic styling zeiss camera as a v1 and then have real af on v2.
p.40 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
teddoman wrote:
This is like the Canon R6 again. They take a feature and make all the marketing about that feature, and they receive huge blowback from that marketing as a result, causing the market to ignore the underlying camera that would have been received well if it had been sold as just the underlying camera itself.
It's nothing like the Canon R6 issue. Lightroom integration is not the reason this camera is a complete swing and miss. How about contrast detect AF in 2020, how about a sensor where the image falls apart quickly at higher ISO's, how about a fixed lens camera that is bigger than some FF interchangeable cameras, how about 4k UHD video, how about 3FPS, How about no tilt screen or even a color accurate LCD (mind blowing considering the whole premise is to edit on it), what happens when the HD shts the bed?, how about menus that are not intuitive and glitchy, some report banding using the EVF, body gets hot to the touch after 20 minutes of use, battery drains fast if actually editing, how is lightroom getting updated? Android UI forces you into portrait mode even when holding the camera in landscape at times, speaking of Android it uses a 3+ year old version, only one port, no weathersealing, can't review images taken through the EVF only on the back screen?, no IBIS, pinch in to check images on back and they are blurry?, and last but not least 6000 dollars I didn't even list all the issues. These came from people who actually got to used the camera. Yes, there is no perfect camera. And yes every camera has it's strengths and weaknesses. But honestly what is this camera good at? DP had trouble with static objects! Manny posted his review and said he much prefers his little Fuji because it actually gets images in focus unlike the ZX1. I mean kinda basic stuff this camera fails at. I was interested in this camera 2+ years ago when first rumors came out. I've been waiting for an Rx1rii replacement. But to say this unfinished product they call a camera is a let down is a huge understatement. Personally it brings into question where Zeiss is as a company in 2020 that they could even release something like this. It certainly explains why they didn't send out units for review ahead of time. It's been such an iconic name in photography for so long it's amazing how fast a company can lose their way.
p.40 #14 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Some cameras are designed to please many photographers (Sony A7), other only a few (Leica M for instance).
The ZX1 is clearly in the 2nd category and this is ok. Some of us use both btw.
People can explain why they like it and why they will buy it. Or not. Or any combination even if it would be a bit strange to explain why one bought something he didn't like but strangers things have happened.
We can also discuss why in said category, we think that the camera is better or worse than its competitors, why we think it will succeed or fail.
But I do not understand why some doom a camera they do not like or why those who love it want everybody to think and feel like them.
p.40 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
pmeheut wrote:
Some cameras are designed to please many photographers (Sony A7), other only a few (Leica M for instance).
The ZX1 is clearly in the 2nd category and this is ok. Some of us use both btw.
People can explain why they like it and why they will buy it. Or not. Or any combination even if it would be a bit strange to explain why one bought something he didn't like but strangers things have happened.
We can also discuss why in said category, we think that the camera is better or worse than its competitors, why we think it will succeed or fail.
But I do not understand why some doom a camera they do not like or why those who love it want everybody to think and feel like them. ...Show more →
This camera does seem to have roused the passions. Imho, I think a lot of the passion is driven by the $6K price. There is no "good" or "bad" product. All products are a value proposition relative to the cost. If the majority of the value proposition for a premium camera is the brand of the premium lens manufacturer that put the fixed lens on the camera, then you wouldn't expect the rest of the camera to deliver $6K of value. But my sense is that people are looking at the camera itself like it's a cheap commodity and then thinking this Android GUI + LR is outrageous for $6K. If you look at the underlying camera as fairly priced at $4500-$5500 as a premium Zeiss product, I think you can have a fair debate about the Android GUI + LR component, and some may still think that part isn't $500-1500 in value but maybe it wouldn't arouse the same passions.
p.40 #17 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
Yes. The iPhone 12 Pro Max is a crappy camera, but an amazing device for connectivity. Most cameras are amazing cameras and crappy devices for connectivity. Give me a seamless, well-thought out app and I'm golden!
You obviously haven't used it and are just spouting nonsense
p.40 #18 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
vdo1 wrote:
Favorite line at 7:32 " i get most of my shots in focus with the Fuji, unlike the Zeiss". Yup! I'm missing the genius of this camera for sure. I admit it
I have, and I've used better phone cameras as well. It's still a small sensor camera. Image quality is equivalent to, say, my Canon 10D of 15 years ago. Higher resolution on the iPhone but lower image detail, more aberrations, worse colour, far worse tonal transitions, worse processing artifacts, etc. etc. Indeed, I have photos from the old Minolta A2 and Olympus 5050 that are similar.
Listen, I get it, it's a great camera for a phone. But it's nonsense to pretend that it even comes close to a large sensor camera. Your gallery of shots fall apart even at 2mp.
p.40 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
vdo1 wrote:
Interesting video. I agree with some observations (Lightroom button suggestion etc.). However, the reviewer doesn't really grasp what is the point of the camera when he says he does not want to edit his high quality images on the small screen. This camera is for people who don't want to look at big screens and consider such activity manual work.
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