p.36 #1 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
realVivek wrote:
The long delay and the feedback during that time should have told them that their clunky design isn’t going to get them anywhere. The “odds” are imposed by themselves.
They will join the likes of Sigma Quattro.
Completely false analogy. Sigma Quattro cameras have been around years and have surely many thousands of sales. This Zeiss flop of a camera could be around a century and never sell as much as the Quattro cameras from SIgma.
p.36 #2 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
I feel like the camera that people wanted is something more 'classic' in terms of design, like the Leica Q. Zeiss has a lot of history they could've drawn on and if they released a $6k camera that didn't carry with it the possibility of rapid obsolescence due to software updates or lack thereof, they'd likely find a larger market. It would interest me more, that I know. But I also dream of owning a Lotus Elise and a Seiko Credor so, yeah.
I bought a Lotus Elise last year. Best purchase of my life.
p.36 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
liggy wrote:
Fitting is one thing. It’s the getting in and out
What a great car for track days though. Completely involving. As a daily - good luck!
Haha you are so right...it's the getting in that is especially problematic. I basically have to stand on the seat and kind of drop down or sort of back in and fold myself. Repeat the same routine on egress
It would most definitely be a second car and, luckily, I don't drive daily. I live very centrally and and both my wife and I can walk to work and most everything else we need. I feel like this is making my wife more amenable to the thought of a wildly impractical car and hey, she loves to drive too, so...
p.36 #7 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
Haha you are so right...it's the getting in that is especially problematic. I basically have to stand on the seat and kind of drop down or sort of back in and fold myself. Repeat the same routine on egress
It would most definitely be a second car and, luckily, I don't drive daily. I live very centrally and and both my wife and I can walk to work and most everything else we need. I feel like this is making my wife more amenable to the thought of a wildly impractical car and hey, she loves to drive too, so......Show more →
Lolol... my best car pal has got some great toys. R35 GTR, 911 RS and an Elise. The Elise is the one that gets most of the track time. My S2000 feels heavy in comparison to the Elise.
Love that your wife is an enthusiast. My wife is a gifted manual transmission operator and on our 3rd date or so I was done for when she showed me that side of her.
Re: the Elise - having short legs I just sit on the sill and swing into the seat for ingress.
Life has an unknown expiration date - time for an Elise! Much better spend than the ridiculous Zeiss Android.
p.36 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
liggy wrote:
Lolol... my best car pal has got some great toys. R35 GTR, 911 RS and an Elise. The Elise is the one that gets most of the track time. My S2000 feels heavy in comparison to the Elise.
With short legs I just sit on the sill and swing into the seat for Elise ingress.
Life has an unknown expiration date - time for an Elise! Much better spend than the ridiculous Zeiss Android.
Agreed, best lesson of 2020 for me...don't wait. I've had to put so many things on hold. So, my new thought on timing is, if I can do it, I should do it. Also, I think that teaching my 14 year old daughter how to drive a stick in an Elise would be badass so I only have 2 years...
That is indeed a nice collection of toys. It's beyond my pay grade but man do I love it when people buy cars like those and use them as God and their engineers intended. Kudos to your friend.
I'll admit to being envious of your S2000 as well. There's a fellow in my neighbourhood who has, as far as I can tell, an un-modded yellow S2000 and I love hearing it sing as he lets it rev. That engine is incredible.
I will avoid the Zeiss Android and indeed save my pennies. I'd rather put the money towards buying a soulful car, for sure, and if someone chose to make the Elise/S2000 of cameras, I might buy one as a companion.
p.36 #10 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
Agreed, best lesson of 2020 for me...don't wait. I've had to put so many things on hold. So, my new thought on timing is, if I can do it, I should do it. Also, I think that teaching my 14 year old daughter how to drive a stick in an Elise would be badass so I only have 2 years...
That is indeed a nice collection of toys. It's beyond my pay grade but man do I love it when people buy cars like those and use them as God and their engineers intended. Kudos to your friend.
I'll admit to being envious of your S2000 as well. There's a fellow in my neighbourhood who has, as far as I can tell, an un-modded yellow S2000 and I love hearing it sing as he lets it rev. That engine is incredible.
I will avoid the Zeiss Android and indeed save my pennies. I'd rather put the money towards buying a soulful car, for sure, and if someone chose to make the Elise/S2000 of cameras, I might buy one as a companion. ...Show more →
That would be a lifelong high point for your kiddo. . Super cool dad points.
And yes - my pal is the real deal - not just some guy with more money than sense or taste.
I love the S2000. With just a catback, intake, 10K spring rate coil overs and sticky tires it can run with exotics that aren’t driven particularly well. That will be a keeper until I am unable to drive it.
And to make rattymouse’s head explode I believe that the Fuji APSC cameras are the S2000 of cameras.
Aperture rings, iso and shutter speed dials and exposure comp all there for manual adjustments quickly. Not the highest megapixel FF sensors but they punch above their weight and a tactile pleasure to use and some of them are really nice to look at as well.
p.36 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
I feel like the camera that people wanted is something more 'classic' in terms of design, like the Leica Q. Zeiss has a lot of history they could've drawn on and if they released a $6k camera that didn't carry with it the possibility of rapid obsolescence due to software updates or lack thereof, they'd likely find a larger market. It would interest me more, that I know. But I also dream of owning a Lotus Elise and a Seiko Credor so, yeah.
I'm glad Zeiss swung for the fences and released something that, it turns out, is well executed for what it is. I just think they executed the wrong project. ...Show more →
I think the fact that it's based on Android is raising the specter of rapid obsolescence but I'm not so sure about that. A smartphone is generic piece of commodified hardware with very few inherent unique features. Nobody compares the lenses on cellphones. The lenses are commodified. You might look at the configuration of the lenses, or you might look at the chip, or you might look at if a phone supports the most recent telecom standards. But how a phone works and feels is mostly determined by the version of the OS running on it and not based on the commodified hardware it runs on. So as consumers we are used to getting OS updates that make the prior version obsolete. Android IS the feature we're buying, even if the quality of the Android is based on the hardware it runs on.
A camera is totally different. We're buying a lens and a sensor. The hardware matters a lot. Zeiss stripped Android down to its bare essentials and basically made it part of the firmware for the camera. They used it as a self-contained custom OS for their GUI and so they can run a Lightroom app which has probably been customized just for the phone. It's not really Android in the sense that we're used to thinking about Android.
If I were buying this camera, I'm not so sure I'd be worried about obsolescence just because it uses Android. Android is the primary feature of a cellphone. I'd say the lens, sensor, touch screen GUI, and LR are the primary features of the ZX1. None of those features become obsolete in any sense just because Google comes out with a new version of Android next year. New versions of Android are irrelevant because the ZX1 does not provide any cell phone features in the first place that would benefit from any of those new versions of Android. It is only using a stripped-down version of Android and just for a GUI.
We do not expect rapid self-obsoleting firmware updates on cameras the way we expect them on cell phones. I'd love for Sony to provide A9 owners with the new menus through a self-obsoleting firmware update (analogous to a new version of Android)-- but that ain't happening. So I don't think a ZX1 buyer needs to worry about Android, which is really just the camera firmware. Camera buyers don't get self-obsoleting firmware updates. That's just not how the camera industry works.
Smartphone GUIs may be very different ten years from now due to constant updates in iOS and Android. If so, that could make camera GUIs seem obsolete. But that make regular camera GUIs obsolete just as fast as it makes a ZX1 obsolete. And to some extent, camera GUIs have been becoming obsoleted for a long time now. The world is used to touch screen GUIs now. So the ZX1 is a huge leap towards having a camera that uses a smartphone GUI. Just that step means that it is way ahead of most cameras coming out today. That GUI separation from regular cameras in the same generation of the ZX1 (like the A7C or R6 or Z6 II) being sold today will still exist ten years from now. Some folks think the camera industry might be ready for touchscreen GUIs. I guess the ZX1 will test that hypothesis.
p.36 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Touch screens have been a part of camera user interface for quite some years now (5+). Integration of the most commonly used image manager and editing tool right on the camera itself is, however, new. Think about it: being able to make edits anywhere and the images appearing immediately on all devices that you might want to use for editing. Same controls and same images on the camera itself, on your mobile devices and desktop/laptop computers. No fuss, as soon as the shots are taken, they can be displayed and edited on any of your devices using similar tools. This is how it should be; Zeiss should be commended for taking steps towards this direction even if the first version has glitches.
p.36 #16 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
teddoman wrote:
A camera is totally different. We're buying a lens and a sensor. The hardware matters a lot. Zeiss stripped Android down to its bare essentials and basically made it part of the firmware for the camera. They used it as a self-contained custom OS for their GUI and so they can run a Lightroom app which has probably been customized just for the phone. It's not really Android in the sense that we're used to thinking about Android.
If I were buying this camera, I'm not so sure I'd be worried about obsolescence just because it uses Android. Android is the primary feature of a cellphone. I'd say the lens, sensor, touch screen GUI, and LR are the primary features of the ZX1. None of those features become obsolete in any sense just because Google comes out with a new version of Android next year. New versions of Android are irrelevant because the ZX1 does not provide any cell phone features in the first place that would benefit from any of those new versions of Android. It is only using a stripped-down version of Android and just for a GUI. ...Show more →
The problem is not that Android will go obsolete on this camera, but rather that the preinstalled apps will go obsolete. Have you ever tried to see what happens when you turn on an old phone (last OS update more than 5 years ago). Apps are no longer upgradable, because the newer versions are not supported by the old Android running on the device and if you want to use the apps without updating you won't be able to, because even the protocols change over time that those apps use to connect to cloud features, auto upload etc etc.
If this camera flops, the customized apps running on the customized Android will cease all network functionality within perhaps as short as 2-4 years, depending on what Facebook & Adobe do with with their services.
Naturally if Zeiss feels that it's worthwhile to continue developing this line they might extend support to quite a few years more, but I'm quite skeptical about that.
p.36 #17 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Sinasina wrote:
The problem is not that Android will go obsolete on this camera, but rather that the preinstalled apps will go obsolete. Have you ever tried to see what happens when you turn on an old phone (last OS update more than 5 years ago). Apps are no longer upgradable, because the newer versions are not supported by the old Android running on the device and if you want to use the apps without updating you won't be able to, because even the protocols change over time that those apps use to connect to cloud features, auto upload etc etc.
If this camera flops, the customized apps running on the customized Android will cease all network functionality within perhaps as short as 2-4 years, depending on what Facebook & Adobe do with with their services.
Naturally if Zeiss feels that it's worthwhile to continue developing this line they might extend support to quite a few years more, but I'm quite skeptical about that.
Don't know about Android, but I'm running a very old iPad that has old apps and they all still work. Yes, I can't upgrade the apps...but is that any different than you can't get the latest firmware features on your older cameras? You have to purchase the new camera if you want that feature.
p.36 #18 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Sinasina wrote:
The problem is not that Android will go obsolete on this camera, but rather that the preinstalled apps will go obsolete. Have you ever tried to see what happens when you turn on an old phone (last OS update more than 5 years ago). Apps are no longer upgradable, because the newer versions are not supported by the old Android running on the device and if you want to use the apps without updating you won't be able to, because even the protocols change over time that those apps use to connect to cloud features, auto upload etc etc.
If this camera flops, the customized apps running on the customized Android will cease all network functionality within perhaps as short as 2-4 years, depending on what Facebook & Adobe do with with their services.
Naturally if Zeiss feels that it's worthwhile to continue developing this line they might extend support to quite a few years more, but I'm quite skeptical about that.
As far I as I know, the only app the ZX1 runs is Lightroom.
Ten years from now, the LR app on the camera will still work because unlike a smartphone, the ZX1 will not constantly upgrade to new versions of Android.
Now you may be disappointed that you are not gonna get updated to the latest and greatest versions of the Android GUI and the LR mobile app, but that's par for the course for camera owners. Constant firmware upgrades are not part of the package because what we are buying is the hardware. That's different than smartphones where people are basically buying the OS platform (and the hardware is just there to run the OS faster or slower depending on how good a phone you buy).
p.36 #19 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Why would Lightroom need to be customized to work on this camera? According to dpreview, "The Lightroom editing experience is fairly responsive and is no different than the Lightroom mobile experience on Android or iOS." So it sounds like it is a standard installation of the Android version of LR on an Android-running device. Presumably the applications can be upgraded along with camera firmware. Zeiss say "Always up to date with automatic software updates. Ensure optimal performance, enjoy new features and improve upon the range of functions via firmware download and update over-the-air (OTA)." I doubt very much that they'd have access to Adobe source code to customize LR. Presumably all they need to do is keep the Android current enough so that the current LR can run on it.
p.36 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
ilkka_nissila wrote:
Touch screens have been a part of camera user interface for quite some years now (5+). Integration of the most commonly used image manager and editing tool right on the camera itself is, however, new. Think about it: being able to make edits anywhere and the images appearing immediately on all devices that you might want to use for editing. Same controls and same images on the camera itself, on your mobile devices and desktop/laptop computers. No fuss, as soon as the shots are taken, they can be displayed and edited on any of your devices using similar tools. This is how it should be; Zeiss should be commended for taking steps towards this direction even if the first version has glitches....Show more →
I'm a Sony user, and we don't have a touchscreen menu yet. I remember I tried out a Panasonic GF3 almost a decade ago and distinctly recall being able to change the PASM mode on the touchscreen. I guess some manufacturers have decided to move towards touchscreen menus while others have not.
I agree, the ZX1 is really taking it to the next level. By doing everything on the rear screen, it's much closer to what we've become accustomed to on our smartphones.
