p.23 #2 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Charlie N wrote:
Love the concept, too bad it’s fixed lens. Make an E or L mount version, and I might get one. Smart cameras Are the Next big thing.
Good..we won't need smart photographers.
p.23 #3 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
This camera isn’t what I want, at all, and I don’t want it hindering a RX1 update (if that’s a consideration). But, I am curious the way the ZX1 35 will render...it will always annoy me if the ZX1 isn’t released and I don’t get to see the lens’ rendering.
From time to time I still wonder about the CY Zeiss 25 1.4 prototype
p.23 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
freaklikeme wrote:
It'd be a shame if they got this far along in development only to discover the market was no longer there for it, but not a surprise.
OTOH it'd be a relief if the abject failure of this misguided project forced Zeiss to refocus on what they're actually good at: making excellent lenses.
p.23 #6 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
freaklikeme wrote:
It'd be a shame if they got this far along in development only to discover the market was no longer there for it, but not a surprise.
I guess there will always be a market of Q2 users who would like to have a more intimate focal length.
p.23 #8 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
genji wrote:
OTOH it'd be a relief if the abject failure of this misguided project forced Zeiss to refocus on what they're actually good at: making excellent lenses.
I'm not convinced the overall market condition isn't going to slow new lens development for them, but time will tell. I don't think we'll see any new Otus or Milvus lenses for a couple of years. We might see the Loxias get S and L mount versions. That seems more likely than getting a new one. I even get the impression the economy of rebranding on the Batis lenses has soured on them. I hope I'm wrong, but my guess is their focus will be on their cine business while the overall market normalizes.
p.23 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Said it a few months back. Digital Zeiss Ikon if they wanted to get clever. Think there would be more of a market for legit m mount competition than an oversized fixed FF.
p.23 #10 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
AcuteShadows wrote:
I guess there will always be a market of Q2 users who would like to have a more intimate focal length.
Even making the assumption that's true, we don't know if the fraction of the market that would either add or switch to the camera is large enough to make it a profitable endeavor.
p.23 #11 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
The tardy ZX-1 full release may be due to SONY/ZEISS anti-competitive covenants.
Specifically, between the RX1R ll and the ZX-1 there remains significant feature marketing overlaps (Sensor MP, lens similarities and the biggie––leaf shutter sync > 1/000 sec.).
I suspect ZEISS wants not to stress the good SONY relationship by pushing the ZX-1 ... even though it attractively offers (In spec) 4K video, touch access, large monitor obviating ATOMOS HDMI screen.
I thought ZEISS under-offered flash sync @ 1/1000 sec but upon review, this is the fastest practical on-camera sync speed. The leaf shutter could in theory sync with 1/4000 sec. but only at watt energies that exceed the small on camera flash offerings today (Requiring studio flashes).
It appears that the two firms decided to offer ultra-compact size (RX1R ll) vs. field ease of use/image capture/image storage & transfers (ZX-1).
It's clear to me that the ZX-1 will carry a price penalty so as not to erode RX-1R ll sales. My suspicion is ZX-1=$3995 and maybe a bit higher. ADOBE will surely annually charge for its LR (lite). Upon renewal lapses, ZEISS should promise not to cripple cameras e.g. on Safari.
p.23 #12 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
I was using a Sigma DP2M as my only camera until the sensor developed issues. I then considered as a replacement this Contax ZX-1 or the new Sigma L mount camera. I waited and then I purchased a Sony A7RII and I am now in the process of purchasing my third lens for the Sony system. I am glad I got the Sony or I would still be waiting.
p.23 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
What Zeiss management doesn't understand is this: keeping faith in business means being trustworthy and reliable to your customers - the people who show faith in you by purchasing your product. You don't want to look like a con artist if doing business is your game.
Moving forward from this sad episode, a lot of people will think twice before believing anything this (formerly great) company says. They burned a lot of trust here and now look foolish - in public view.
p.23 #14 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
philip_pj wrote:
What Zeiss management doesn't understand is this: keeping faith in business means being trustworthy and reliable to your customers - the people who show faith in you by purchasing your product. You don't want to look like a con artist if doing business is your game.
Moving forward from this sad episode, a lot of people will think twice before believing anything this (formerly great) company says. They burned a lot of trust here and now look foolish - in public view.
Yes, they do. But it is about about a standalone product, so I would think the damage is limited. It would be different if they announced a cinema lens line, and wouldn't show up with an announced 85mm lens for years. I'd assume the majority of Zeiss product users have not noticed the announcement of the camera, nor the delay.
p.23 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Brand loyalty looms large. And Carl Zeiss have made large sums from licensing their name on the products of others - a dubious and confusing practice. From back when we had almost no lenses, Sony people remember things like:
(i) speaking of 85s, the failed Batis 25/85 launch, when the 85/1.8 was announced April 2015, to be delivered Jan 2016;
(ii) the misfire over fast mirrorless lenses not being appropriate for the Sony system;
(iii) the release of only three new design Loxias in six years, for the now-dominant FE camera series;
(iv) the rehousing of moderate weight ZEF lenses into huge, heavy Milvus casings.
So Zeiss appears to have a recent history of ineptitude and mis-steps, a narrowing of focus. At present, no one knows what they stand for. Maybe they make more money from cine lens sales these days and can afford to let things slide, or maybe simply walk away?
p.23 #16 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
philip_pj wrote:
Brand loyalty looms large. And Carl Zeiss have made large sums from licensing their name on the products of others - a dubious and confusing practice. From back when we had almost no lenses, Sony people remember things like:
(i) speaking of 85s, the failed Batis 25/85 launch, when the 85/1.8 was announced April 2015, to be delivered Jan 2016;
(ii) the misfire over fast mirrorless lenses not being appropriate for the Sony system;
(iii) the release of only three new design Loxias in six years, for the now-dominant FE camera series;
(iv) the rehousing of moderate weight ZEF lenses into huge, heavy Milvus casings.
So Zeiss appears to have a recent history of ineptitude and mis-steps, a narrowing of focus. At present, no one knows what they stand for. Maybe they make more money from cine lens sales these days and can afford to let things slide, or maybe simply walk away?...Show more →
Cannot comment Milvus line, but otherwise your list of Zeiss making mistakes is exaggerated. Everything is not perfect, but I am sure both parties (Sony & Zeiss) have benefitted from the cooperation. And also we photographers have benefitted from it. Sony and Zeiss cooperation has given us extremely good lenses such as Batis series and under Sony-Zeiss brand.
Also Loxia series was a success. It showed the public what "different" can be done with a mirrorless camera compared to dslr.
Regarding ZX1 - maybe it was just too big chunk of new camera tech for Zeiss. There was also an overlap with RX1 series, which was discouraging... And the market for full frame compact is very niche and already occupied by Leica Q (and to some extent by Fuji X100 series).
Hopefully Sony will soon come out with RX1 m3. I also dare to hope that Sony makes RX1 m3 a practical camera rather than a luxury item. Being practical means that all the known problems of RX1 predecessors are corrected and price is kept reasonable level. Please Sony
p.23 #17 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
tuomkok wrote:
Cannot comment Milvus line, but otherwise your list of Zeiss making mistakes is exaggerated. Everything is not perfect, but I am sure both parties (Sony & Zeiss) have benefitted from the cooperation. And also we photographers have benefitted from it. Sony and Zeiss cooperation has given us extremely good lenses such as Batis series and under Sony-Zeiss brand.
Also Loxia series was a success. It showed the public what "different" can be done with a mirrorless camera compared to dslr.
Regarding ZX1 - maybe it was just too big chunk of new camera tech for Zeiss. There was also an overlap with RX1 series, which was discouraging... And the market for full frame compact is very niche and already occupied by Leica Q (and to some extent by Fuji X100 series).
Hopefully Sony will soon come out with RX1 m3. I also dare to hope that Sony makes RX1 m3 a practical camera rather than a luxury item. Being practical means that all the known problems of RX1 predecessors are corrected and price is kept reasonable level. Please Sony ...Show more →
Nope, philip_pj's list of Zeiss's unforced errors is spot-on. Except that he forgot to mention the Batis 40/2 Eye AF fiasco. No doubt about it, Zeiss now trails behind Sony, Cosina, and Sigma who continue to release innovative designs with clockwork regularity. As Nick Dakota said earlier in the thread, Zeiss should have devoted the resources wasted on the ZX1 to designing a digital M-mount Ikon which, manufactured by Cosina and priced at 50-60% of the cost of a Leica M10, would have been very successful with the added bonus of increasing the sales of their existing ZM lenses.
p.23 #18 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
philip_pj wrote:
Brand loyalty looms large. And Carl Zeiss have made large sums from licensing their name on the products of others - a dubious and confusing practice. From back when we had almost no lenses, Sony people remember things like:
(i) speaking of 85s, the failed Batis 25/85 launch, when the 85/1.8 was announced April 2015, to be delivered Jan 2016;
(ii) the misfire over fast mirrorless lenses not being appropriate for the Sony system;
(iii) the release of only three new design Loxias in six years, for the now-dominant FE camera series;
(iv) the rehousing of moderate weight ZEF lenses into huge, heavy Milvus casings.
So Zeiss appears to have a recent history of ineptitude and mis-steps, a narrowing of focus. At present, no one knows what they stand for. Maybe they make more money from cine lens sales these days and can afford to let things slide, or maybe simply walk away?...Show more →
Good list Philip, and I agree with your sentiment overall. The other aspect I don’t hear people knocking Zeiss enough for is their subpar haptics across lines. The Milvus 85 has a small aperture ring too close to the mount that is easy to turn despite the lens being massive. The Batis line is bloated. Zeiss’ decision to make smooth texturesless focus rings (Milvus, Batis, ZX1) is idiotic. The OELD screens on the Batis line are a gimmick—actual distance scales are so much more practical. Or just nothing—less to break, less expense and less build complexity and size reduction. And no aperture rings or focus hold buttons for the Batis. At this point, I prefer most other manufactures size, build, styling and ergonomic decisions.
Funny thing is, Zeiss is just trying to be modern at the expense of practicality. I think they are having a hard time differentiating themselves on optics/price/performance alone. Their AF line should look to Sony GM or Fuji or Canon. Their MF should look to Voigt or Leica M.
Or better yet, they could just look at their own lines from the past and get back to the top of the mountain.
The last modern Zeiss lens to really impress me was the ZM 35 1.4.
p.23 #19 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
I don't I agree with all the bashing of Zeiss in the previous posts but as far as the ZX1 is concerned (which was the topic of this thread after all) for me an aspect that kills it is this statement on the website: "Process your images from anywhere in-camera with this intelligent solution: from exposure and colour corrections to selective edits, syncing to Lightroom CC on your computer and much more (some features require a Creative Cloud Photography plan subscription)." A creative cloud plan is required for full use: never!!
p.23 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
zoomo wrote:
I don't I agree with all the bashing of Zeiss in the previous posts but as far as the ZX1 is concerned (which was the topic of this thread after all) for me an aspect that kills it is this statement on the website: "Process your images from anywhere in-camera with this intelligent solution: from exposure and colour corrections to selective edits, syncing to Lightroom CC on your computer and much more (some features require a Creative Cloud Photography plan subscription)." A creative cloud plan is required for full use: never!!
I think you need a subscription if you want to sync with LR on your desktop. I believe you would still be able to fully process the images on the ZX1 and send them onto other internet sites.
