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In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera

  
 
Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #1 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


kezeka wrote:
Not many rich enthusiasts are trying to go to a fixed lens system and need to immediately post to social media. But hey, what do I know. My biggest concern with all of this in camera editing and the guys above clamoring for 4G cell data is how god awful the battery life will be. We already know the MILCs eat juice unlike any camera before them, so what could possibly go wrong with editing in camera and 4G?

Probably nothing #sarcasm


I think the problem is also with regards to what social media apps will be supported in the Camera SW for direct uploading, and all those app integrations will need long term SW support as the underlying social media services will keep getting updated. Usually when sharing in social media user may also like to write some text along with the photos and that won't be so convenient to do in camera.

From my perspective most of those tasks would be easier to do on smartphone and it's much easier to keep smartphone up to date with such services and applications, and user can always get a new smartphone with a better screen without investing as much as the camera costs.

I think a better solution to "the problem" would be more seamless and easy way to get raw files (or if preferred, jpeg) transferred to smartphone and doing the rest on the phone.



Jan 11, 2019 at 01:02 AM
tzhang4284
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p.17 #2 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


kezeka wrote:
Not many rich enthusiasts are trying to go to a fixed lens system and need to immediately post to social media. But hey, what do I know. My biggest concern with all of this in camera editing and the guys above clamoring for 4G cell data is how god awful the battery life will be. We already know the MILCs eat juice unlike any camera before them, so what could possibly go wrong with editing in camera and 4G?

Probably nothing #sarcasm


Isn't a smartphone basically a fixed lens camera with the ability to post immediately to social media? There's real demand for better cameras in smartphones so why not make a camera with better workflow, social media and wireless capabilities? Also none of these concepts discussed for the ZX1 has to be exclusively for the rich enthusiast...the rich enthusiast parts are the 35mm f2 lens, Zeiss badge and full frame sensor.

As for 4G data - unless you're a masochist, you wouldn't leave it on at all times. It would be like if you walked around with your smartphone screen on max brightness and 4G on at all times and ignoring wifi or any other battery saving techniques out there...



Jan 11, 2019 at 01:44 AM
Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #3 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


tzhang4284 wrote:
Isn't a smartphone basically a fixed lens camera with the ability to post immediately to social media? There's real demand for better cameras in smartphones so why not make a camera with better workflow, social media and wireless capabilities? Also none of these concepts discussed for the ZX1 has to be exclusively for the rich enthusiast...the rich enthusiast parts are the 35mm f2 lens, Zeiss badge and full frame sensor.

As for 4G data - unless you're a masochist, you wouldn't leave it on at all times. It would be like if you walked around with your smartphone screen on max
...Show more

I think one point is that most people update their smartphones every 1-3 years but having all this "smartphone functionality" in a camera instead means the camera will be outdated more easily and requires much more and longer term SW support. So if the camera is very expensive, and the lens and sensor remain state of the art for many years to come, it will be a problem if all the "smartphone-like" capabilities in the camera get left behind.

I'm not personally convinced that Zeiss will have great many social media services integrated in the device and will keep it fresh with SW updates for years to come and users probably have no option to directly update related camera apps as one can do with a smartphone. In the initial presentations Zeiss only seemed to have Dropbox integration and they were talking to other service providers such as "Flickr". There hasn't been much more information on what services they can actually support when the camera launches.



Jan 11, 2019 at 02:33 AM
chez
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p.17 #4 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


Juha Kannisto wrote:
I think the problem is also with regards to what social media apps will be supported in the Camera SW for direct uploading, and all those app integrations will need long term SW support as the underlying social media services will keep getting updated. Usually when sharing in social media user may also like to write some text along with the photos and that won't be so convenient to do in camera.

From my perspective most of those tasks would be easier to do on smartphone and it's much easier to keep smartphone up to date with such services and
...Show more

Why do you feel the smartphone is easier to add text than the camera and why do you feel the smartphone is easier to upgrade the apps? What prohibits the camera from being just as easy to upgrade and use with apps?




Jan 11, 2019 at 09:08 AM
bwcolor
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p.17 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


Three months since the announcement and no sign of the camera. Any sightings of someone carrying the modern Graflex? Maybe Zeiss is rethinking things, given the underwhelming response.


Jan 11, 2019 at 10:48 AM
naturephoto1
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p.17 #6 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


bwcolor wrote:
Three months since the announcement and no sign of the camera. Any sightings of someone carrying the modern Graflex? Maybe Zeiss is rethinking things, given the underwhelming response.


I don't know. Zeiss had about 5 or 6? of these under glass at Photoplus in NYC in October. As I recall, they had been suggesting first quarter of 2019. I am not sure if any of the display cameras actually worked, but none were available to be touched.

Rich




Jan 11, 2019 at 11:03 AM
Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #7 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


chez wrote:
Why do you feel the smartphone is easier to add text than the camera and why do you feel the smartphone is easier to upgrade the apps? What prohibits the camera from being just as easy to upgrade and use with apps?



Talking specifically about ZX1, it is 800g and the screen is 4.3 inches so I think it's not going to be quite as comfortable to hold up while typing text on screen whereas most smartphones have bigger screens, are much lighter and are well optimized for hand-holdability (including single handed use) while doing text input as it's one of the basic use cases for smartphones. The size, weight and form factor are the main reasons. Additionally, there is a lot of SW support for text input for smartphones, including language options, predictive text input, various installable SW keyboards etc. Nothing points to ZX1 having such extendability at this point.

In theory nothing prohibits the camera from being just as easy to upgrade and use with apps but in case of Android device (ZX1 seems to be Android based) it should be a fully Google certified device with access to Google Play to have access to the vast library of Android apps that are already available for smartphones, tablets etc. to be equally upgradeable.

Based on available specs, published materials etc. it doesn't look like ZX1 will be a Google certified Android device with Google Play store access. So far we know that a version of Lightroom CC will be integrated and possibly some social media and cloud storage services, e-mail client etc. It appears that all apps will need to be specifically adapted for the device by Zeiss or these 3rd party providers, and will probably be available as part of ZX1 firmware updates, or possibly through some separate download service provided by Zeiss if they are individually installable. Zeiss haven't really made clear how user can upgrade apps or device SW so far.

That all implies that availability of apps etc. will be much more limited depending on how many service providers (e.g. social media services, cloud storage providers etc.) Zeiss can partner up with and get their apps adapted for the device.



Jan 11, 2019 at 12:37 PM
chez
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p.17 #8 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


Too much still unknown to be making judgements one way or another.

I personally like the initiative Zeiss has shown...kind of surprised it is coming from Zeiss and not someone like Sony or Panasonic.



Jan 11, 2019 at 12:53 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


chez wrote:
Too much still unknown to be making judgements one way or another.

I personally like the initiative Zeiss has shown...kind of surprised it is coming from Zeiss and not someone like Sony or Panasonic.


I also find it very interesting as a concept but can't see how they can make it work very well in practice from the SW / service integration and "smartphone-like usability" perspective. I do hope Zeiss will have a hands on demo device at CP+ at the end of February as it would be nice to try it out.



Jan 11, 2019 at 01:07 PM
kezeka
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p.17 #10 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


tzhang4284 wrote:
Isn't a smartphone basically a fixed lens camera with the ability to post immediately to social media? There's real demand for better cameras in smartphones so why not make a camera with better workflow, social media and wireless capabilities? Also none of these concepts discussed for the ZX1 has to be exclusively for the rich enthusiast...the rich enthusiast parts are the 35mm f2 lens, Zeiss badge and full frame sensor.

As for 4G data - unless you're a masochist, you wouldn't leave it on at all times. It would be like if you walked around with your smartphone screen on max
...Show more

I see where you are trying to take this but after walking around yesterday and having my Leica Q battery depleted after 300 photos in the most battery saving mode, I just can’t get on the same page as you here. Local WiFi for transfer to a phone is one thing to help people rapidly upload photos via phone or computer when on the go, but anything more than that seems to be a giant waste of battery life I would rather have for shooting. My other camera is a relatively dumb 5D3, but at least it can take 1500 photos per charge of a battery.



Jan 12, 2019 at 07:19 AM
 


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Audii-Dudii
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p.17 #11 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


kezeka wrote:
I see where you are trying to take this but after walking around yesterday and having my Leica Q battery depleted after 300 photos in the most battery saving mode, I just can’t get on the same page as you here. Local WiFi for transfer to a phone is one thing to help people rapidly upload photos via phone or computer when on the go, but anything more than that seems to be a giant waste of battery life I would rather have for shooting. My other camera is a relatively dumb 5D3, but at least it can take 1500
...Show more

I know this is a bit off-topic, so I apologize in advance. It's also not my intention to single-out this poster, because this is more of a general issue among photographers and cameras, and not just specific to the ZX1 or this post, but this post has triggered me -- no doubt because I haven't yet my morning cup of caffeine yet, so am still a bit grumbly -- but here goes nothing...

I continue to be puzzled by complaints about battery life and the number of photos that can be taken using one camera battery.

My walkaround camera is an RX1 and as we all know, its battery life isn't very good. But the batteries are small and I can easily carry a half-dozen spares in my pocket -- and I do! -- and together, they take up no more room and add no more weight than a medium-size keychain. And even with OEM batteries, we're talking about only a few hundred bucks, which can be tough to swallow, I'll admit, but it certainly shouldn't be breaking the bank for anybody who chose to buy an RX1, even used. And if it does or you're frugal like me, then there are generic or third-party batteries available for a fraction of the price of a genuine battery, so price shouldn't be the significant issue that many try to make it.

Now, I can understand it sucks to miss a photo opportunity because you're changing batteries at that very moment or get fewer than 20 photos from a battery because it's really cold -- I'm looking at you, RX1! -- but even this isn't bad enough -- for me, anyway! -- to let battery life dictate my choice of a camera.

In the grand scheme of things, it's roughly similar to complaining about memory cards not possessing enough capacity, when they're inexpensive, physically small, and can be changed in seconds with most cameras, such that, logically speaking, carrying several spares shouldn't be / isn't a big deal for most photographers.

Or, say, a car that does well everything you need or want a car to do, but has a range of only 250 miles versus, say, 500 miles or more, due to the small size of its fuel tank, which had to be compromised to achieve the level of performance you otherwise enjoy from it. Even out here in the desert and with the way I drive, a range of 250 miles is still good for approx. three hours of driving between stops, so what's the big deal?!

Of course, everyone's needs and preferences are different and if battery life is that important to you -- say, you photograph underwater, so that changing batteries or memory cards potentially is a big deal -- that's cool and I certainly understand the basis for your opinion. But aside from that, I'm at a loss why so many photographers take issue with battery life, that's all, because I'm obviously missing something and am drawing a blank when it comes to figuring out what that is...

And with that, I'm off to brew myself a nice cup of tea!



Jan 12, 2019 at 11:32 AM
peterv
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p.17 #12 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


Well said, I just bought three extra batteries for my RX1RM2 when I got it and I've always had enough juice, even for 1000+ reportage work. Remember film, 36 exposures "FF" or 12 exposures small MF?


Jan 12, 2019 at 01:02 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.17 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


Audii-Dudii wrote:
I know this is a bit off-topic, so I apologize in advance. It's also not my intention to single-out this poster, because this is more of a general issue among photographers and cameras, and not just specific to the ZX1 or this post, but this post has triggered me -- no doubt because I haven't yet my morning cup of caffeine yet, so am still a bit grumbly -- but here goes nothing...

I continue to be puzzled by complaints about battery life and the number of photos that can be taken using one camera battery.

My walkaround camera is an RX1
...Show more

The battery performance does not bother me at all. I know it's the compromise for having such small and powerful camera.

Having said that, most RX1 users end up getting some type of "grip" solution and perhaps designing a new model with a built-in grip and perhaps bigger battery (from the extra space) does not sound like a bad idea. The lens is long anyways.



Jan 12, 2019 at 01:24 PM
realVivek
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p.17 #14 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


If there is no grip or a small grip, one can always add things to the camera and bulk it up.

The reverse as in this fugly ZX1 is not possible.



Jan 12, 2019 at 01:31 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.17 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


realVivek wrote:
If there is no grip or a small grip, one can always add things to the camera and bulk it up.

The reverse as in this fugly ZX1 is not possible.


What I was saying is that adding a built-in grip could allow for a big battery. (It happened with the A7R3)
Two major requests solved without increasing the camera's overall size and adding a much needed grip.

Very few shooters use the RX1 series without some type of front or thumb grip anyways.



Jan 12, 2019 at 01:39 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.17 #16 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


Audii-Dudii wrote:
I know this is a bit off-topic, so I apologize in advance. It's also not my intention to single-out this poster, because this is more of a general issue among photographers and cameras, and not just specific to the ZX1 or this post, but this post has triggered me -- no doubt because I haven't yet my morning cup of caffeine yet, so am still a bit grumbly -- but here goes nothing...

I continue to be puzzled by complaints about battery life and the number of photos that can be taken using one camera battery.

My walkaround camera is an RX1
...Show more

That's my issue with the RX1 battery--in town, for casual shootings it's fine. But as someone who hikes in very cold terrain, will do multi-day stuff, the RX1's batteries are a deal breaker. A couple winters ago I had 4 full charged batteries while snowshoeing for a day, couldn't even get 30 minutes of use out of all 4. Or when I was in Guatemala, shooting astro photography while camping without a place to charge batteries. I had to ration my shooting each day and at night even with 4 batteries.

For me though, I think having to carry around 4 batteries isn't a matter of price, it's annoying. And it takes me out of the shooting experience. It's more things to loose, keep track of which are charged and which aren't, makes sure you have a charger with you if you don't want to/have multiple batteries with you. I want to be untethered and just focusing on shooting. I am quickly rationing my usage when I've hiked with the RX1 as I don't want to drain the battery. The RX1 is supposed to be a travel camera, and in other ways it's unmatched.

I think Sony could slightly redesign the RX1 with modest size increases (slight EVF hump, better battery/grip, lens stabilization, and joystick) and still be smaller than anything else like this on the market. This would probably be my favorite piece of gear.



Jan 12, 2019 at 02:32 PM
Nick Dakota
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p.17 #17 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera




Fred Miranda wrote:
What I was saying is that adding a built-in grip could allow for a big battery. (It happened with the A7R3)
Two major requests solved without increasing the camera's overall size and adding a much needed grip.

Very few shooters use the RX1 series without some type of front or thumb grip anyways.


It's not like it's pocketable naked, so the grip and thumb grip is kind of a no-brainer. I don't remember shooting without them. It adds very little size imo, but enough where they could figure out how to put a double the capacity battery. The question would be whether the increased battery life would increase sales more than a slightly bigger body would decrease sales. I think it would increase, but I'd buy it either way.



Jan 12, 2019 at 06:21 PM
DmitriM
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p.17 #18 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


I am not surprised this camera is still not out. Back in September I shook my head and was surprised it is coming out and actually asked myself if it's September or perhaps April 1 as the camera makes no sense...
Who would use it? At first, you'd think journalists,but then for that it is missing a lot of features required. Instagram girls? For that, you don't need this camera at all. Professionals who like Zeiss? Not really, because that would make them amateurs
Travel photographers? Nope, not versatile at all for travel with the fixed lens and there are better options on the market for that.
Vacation/hobby? Not really versatile for that either.If had a choice of the latest cell phone or this, I'd choose cell phone for vacation photos any day.


Who is left? Just photo enthusiasts who want to try new equipment. That's it. The cam has a few good features, but lacks in a lot of areas and bet it won't be cheap either alienating any and all consumers leaving only photo enthusiasts to try this thing. The main issue here is a fixed prime lens which makes the camera confusing. At least if was something like 24-70, it would've been another interesting travel camera, competing with Sony RX line. Now it is just competing with my cell phone and so far phone wins for versatility.



Jan 12, 2019 at 11:45 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.17 #19 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


thrice wrote:
Hi Fred, off topic but what is the transfer speed like?



It's ~ 10 seconds per ARW file.



Jan 13, 2019 at 12:48 PM
hotel117
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p.17 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera


I agree. I think Sony PlayMemories (or whatever it's called) is a decent way to send stuff to Android right now. To make it totally seamless, you'd have to have social media apps directly interface with the camera, and if you're working with 24 MP files (to say nothing of 42) that's a lot to ask from a wireless connection. I know smartphone integration seems counter to professional quality, but so much of business is determined by someone's social media presence (if they're relatively new to the game, like me).


Jan 13, 2019 at 07:15 PM
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