You could use a phone-holder to put the phone on the camera..
Besides: i don't think the Q has worse image quality than the A7 II or A7R.
It certainly performs better at high iso and it surely renders better colours (if you believe in a camera rendering colours when shooting RAW)..
adamdewilde wrote:
Hahaha... I was being semi sarcastic. Since that's what a Leica rep would tell you to do (download the app).
I don't need/like flip out screens.. I never have.
But since you asked. Yes I have with the Q. Just for fun. And it wasn't bad, but it's not something I'd want to do without a tripod obviously. So waste level shooting is out.
But I shoot my M without a flip out screen. And waste level. And I use the DOF scales..
yeah, i can hear that coming from a leica rep...
waist level shooting and just guessing the framing is not fun for me, definitely prefer the reverse image of a TLR to that.
i guess you're used to just guessing framing though shooting an m and all though.
i quite like handheld waist level shooting (one of my big complaints about the original rx1 was you couldn't do this), not sure how or why you'd use a tripod for that?
edwardkaraa wrote:
Is it impossible for them to introduce at a later stage a smaller prosumer model with the same mount? I don't see why not?
They could always build a better T (TL). Make it look like a Q. 24mp Sony APSC sensor. TL lenses. In fact, that's what they should have built for the first T.
Luvwine wrote:
I get the deep bias against Sony, but is there any evidence of problems with edge and corner performance with R lenses? I am not arguing, just genuinely curious. I have only had a few R lenses. I had the 28 v. II, which worked well, but was a bit soft in the absolute corners until stopped down. However, it seemed to match the MTF, so I did not infer it was a problem with any compatibility. The other two I have used are R telephotos--180/2.8 apo and 280/4 apo both of which seem to work exceedingly well.
I know about issues with some M glass on Sony, but never read there was an issue with R glass on Sony....Show more →
Assuming they follow through with the M's corrective profiles for the last-model ROM'd R's, then you'll get native corrective profiles based on performance with the sensor. From what I've been shown, this is particularly helpful for lenses like the vII 19, the UWA zoom, and the Summilux 35.
There's also the hope the adapter will allow for ROM reading and auto-aperture, both of which are on the wish list for many R shooters.
sebboh wrote:
for some people (me and at least 2 other guys) it is a miniaturization contest. the a7 is too damn big already.
I'll go on that list now. I'm very happy with the a7II's body-style for hand-held, but if someone came up with a way to pop the lens off the RX1II and replace it with an e-mount, it would make a near-perfect mini-DB. Flat and small, so no interference in movements, an EVF when you need it, an AA filter when you need it. The only way they could improve that is to get rid of the mount completely and make the front an open interface. And maybe slap their big-boy 50MP sensor in there.
sebboh wrote:
for some people (me and at least 2 other guys) it is a miniaturization contest. the a7 is too damn big already.
the size of the SL is fine for what it is (an R solution/continuation), but it's lame for people like me who were hoping for an evf based m lens platform.
Well I'm 110% with you, I doubt it's a surprise, but I don't think the SL means we'll never see one, as you probably agree. If anything all the innovation in this camera makes that prospect more likely.
No flip out LCD, but at least it is touch Problem with flip out is it's really vulnerable. This thing is meant for the gulf of Alaska, and it doesn't even need a boat.
I think where they have fallen most flat is the grip ergos, which considering how bad the M9 and 240 are, it's no surprise. I just mean how they hold in the hand. It's amazing: the M6 is fine. The M9 hurts my hand. A thumbs up helps, obviously or a decent half case. But this beast needs to be really good if you are going to use that huge zoom. Ming hated it. I believe him. Looks way too straight in the grip to me, and this fundamental issue for heavy rigs Canikon has been very good with. Leica has gone for high end espresso machine looks over the poor humans who will hold it.
Luvwine wrote
I get the deep bias against Sony.
You want to see puppy dog bias? Go to the bathroom, look in the mirror.
I just got back from Shenandoah NP for Autumn color several hours ago. But, providing the camera is at the Leica Booth tomorrow, I expect to handle the camera with an assortment of lenses, both R and M. As Doug (telyt) has mentioned, if the R adapter will not be available until the end of 2016 as far as I am concerned Leica has shot themselves in the foot and I will voice that opinion. At present I am not looking for AF lenses and I have 3 M mount, 17 R mount (including telephoto and Zoom lenses (plus Bellows system), plus 1 Canon FD lens that should work on the camera. So, right now, if I purchased the camera, I would have 17 orphans until the adapter is available.
sebboh wrote:
for some people (me and at least 2 other guys) it is a miniaturization contest. the a7 is too damn big already.
the size of the SL is fine for what it is (an R solution/continuation), but it's lame for people like me who were hoping for an evf based m lens platform.
uhoh7 wrote:
Well I'm 110% with you, I doubt it's a surprise, but I don't think the SL means we'll never see one, as you probably agree. If anything all the innovation in this camera makes that prospect more likely.
i was including you as one of the 2 other guys.
i don't really see a lot of innovation here, just putting together a bunch of stuff that leica already had elsewhere. this seems like a more serious commitment to T-mount though, which should increase the probability of getting a camera designed more for our preferences in the future...
naturephoto1 wrote:
I just got back from Shenandoah NP for Autumn color several hours ago. But, providing the camera is at the Leica Booth tomorrow, I expect to handle the camera with an assortment of lenses, both R and M. As Doug (telyt) has mentioned, if the R adapter will not be available until the end of 2016 as far as I am concerned Leica has shot themselves in the foot and I will voice that opinion. At present I am not looking for AF lenses and I have 3 M mount, 17 R mount (including telephoto and Zoom lenses (plus Bellows system), plus 1 Canon FD lens that should work on the camera. So, right now, if I purchased the camera, I would have 17 orphans until the adapter is available.
naturephoto1 wrote:
I just got back from Shenandoah NP for Autumn color several hours ago. But, providing the camera is at the Leica Booth tomorrow, I expect to handle the camera with an assortment of lenses, both R and M. As Doug (telyt) has mentioned, if the R adapter will not be available until the end of 2016 as far as I am concerned Leica has shot themselves in the foot and I will voice that opinion. At present I am not looking for AF lenses and I have 3 M mount, 17 R mount (including telephoto and Zoom lenses (plus Bellows system), plus 1 Canon FD lens that should work on the camera. So, right now, if I purchased the camera, I would have 17 orphans until the adapter is available.
freaklikeme wrote:
Assuming they follow through with the M's corrective profiles for the last-model ROM'd R's, then you'll get native corrective profiles based on performance with the sensor. From what I've been shown, this is particularly helpful for lenses like the vII 19, the UWA zoom, and the Summilux 35.
There's also the hope the adapter will allow for ROM reading and auto-aperture, both of which are on the wish list for many R shooters.
Interesting. I had read about the hope for auto aperture but don't find that a big deal. Metadata is also not a big deal to me. However, I had not previously considered corrective profiles. Will they be "baked in"'to the raw or simply applied after the fact? Lightroom profiles already cover most R lenses for distortion correction. Think there will be a quality advantage or is this another nice convenience but that ultimately does not improve what is already available?
Luvwine wrote:
Interesting. I had read about the hope for auto aperture but don't find that a big deal. Metadata is also not a big deal to me. However, I had not previously considered corrective profiles. Will they be "baked in"'to the raw or simply applied after the fact? Lightroom profiles already cover most R lenses for distortion correction. Think there will be a quality advantage or is this another nice convenience but that ultimately does not improve what is already available?
You'll have to get confirmation from an M-shooter, but I believe they're side-car'd on to the DNGs and picked up by LR.
The more I read and compare the specs of the SL 601, the more I feel Leica has missed the target.
For the size of this beast, there are many better options for FF, cost effective and a large range of lenses available. The SL 601 does not have the best sensor, it is large/heavy and it does not really do anything better than what is available. There is only one lens available for now and of course you can use M mount lenses. The M lenses do not even perform as well as on the M240!
Leica have some of the best lens designers, and really should be producing in parallel Leica FE mount lenses. The market for the A7 series is growing, and having high end Leica FE mount lenses would over shadow most of the Loxia lenses even at a higher cost. You don't need to compete with AF, but have small/light lenses that would bring out the best in the latest A7's.
Maybe the target are the professionals, but most pros I speak to are cost conscious and very mindful of what equipment they invest in. Knowing there is basically only one AF lens available for now, most will not take the plunge.
I have loved the M9/MM and M240 as these cameras are seriously "cool" and unique and fun to use.
freaklikeme wrote:
So the important ones are covered.
My first thought when I saw the initial pics and specs was, "Doug's going to be very excited about this."
I am still not to happy about the price or the fact that the camera is only 24 MP instead of 36. I do not think that the files will equal those from my A7r.
sebboh wrote:
i was including you as one of the 2 other guys.
i don't really see a lot of innovation here, just putting together a bunch of stuff that leica already had elsewhere. this seems like a more serious commitment to T-mount though, which should increase the probability of getting a camera designed more for our preferences in the future...
haha I can't even believe I swallowed an M9. It's size and weight are a huge comprimise, but my lenses kiss me for it
No innovation, oh, you are a hard sell!!
Best 4K specs period, no? 11FPS, no? Ming talks about the very fast selection of AF points, or something, you know how I feel about AF. Only use it for money. The mag steps, they have improved Sony's mag. The EVF is a light year ahead of everything, by all accounts. Very fast in every function.
I think you are blinded by the bulk
charles.K wrote:
Leica have some of the best lens designers, and really should be producing in parallel Leica FE mount lenses. The market for the A7 series is growing, and having high end Leica FE mount lenses would over shadow most of the Loxia lenses even at a higher cost. You don't need to compete with AF, but have small/light lenses that would bring out the best in the latest A7's.
Maybe the target are the professionals, but most pros I speak to are cost conscious and very mindful of what equipment they invest in. Knowing there is basically only one AF lens available for now, most will not take the plunge.
I have loved the M9/MM and M240 as these cameras are seriously "cool" and unique and fun to use.
You are right on all these counts, Charles. It seems, like Apple and Adobe, Sony and Leica just cannot get along, despite their customers cash. It's incredible. But, in the spirit of schoolyard fights, "Sony started it" The fight that is. Leica, of course, started the entire format. No gratitude form these upstarts, like Zeiss!
freaklikeme wrote:
My first thought when I saw the initial pics and specs was, "Doug's going to be very excited about this."
I really hope he makes the plunge and cannot wait to enjoy the results
freaklikeme wrote:
If you're going to sort it out that way, then Canon has EF, EF-S, M, GX, and PowerShot, Nikon has FX, DX, 1, A, and Coolpix, Sony has the original Alpha mount FF and APS-C, E FF and APS-C, 3 flavors of RX, whatever they call the cell-phone lensors, and the action cam.
So, no, Leica doesn't even come close to their total, and doesn't even beat just Sony.
freaklikeme wrote:
So the important ones are covered.
My first thought when I saw the initial pics and specs was, "Doug's going to be very excited about this."
The viewfinder sounds very enticing but I don't see it as a 'must-have' until the R adapter L becomes available, and then only if there's more to it than a dumb tube. I have to believe that if this adapter won't be available for another year there has to be more to it than just a dumb tube. I figure I can save enough $$$$ for it in a year.
However I reserve the right to contradict myself once I have the camera in my hands and peer into the viewfinder.
Oct 21, 2015 at 08:37 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
charles.K wrote:
The more I read and compare the specs of the SL 601, the more I feel Leica has missed the target.
For the size of this beast, there are many better options for FF, cost effective and a large range of lenses available. The SL 601 does not have the best sensor, it is large/heavy and it does not really do anything better than what is available. There is only one lens available for now and of course you can use M mount lenses. The M lenses do not even perform as well as on the M240!
Leica have some of the best lens designers, and really should be producing in parallel Leica FE mount lenses. The market for the A7 series is growing, and having high end Leica FE mount lenses would over shadow most of the Loxia lenses even at a higher cost. You don't need to compete with AF, but have small/light lenses that would bring out the best in the latest A7's.
Maybe the target are the professionals, but most pros I speak to are cost conscious and very mindful of what equipment they invest in. Knowing there is basically only one AF lens available for now, most will not take the plunge.
I have loved the M9/MM and M240 as these cameras are seriously "cool" and unique and fun to use.
My take is that as usual for Leica, shooting this Leica creates a unique and enjoyable shooting experience. This camera compared to any other mirrorless camera has a much better EVF, a much faster responsiveness, and a much simpler interface. it brings a nice view of the scene, a snappy responsiveness, and it is simple to operate. You may not like the size, but there will be people that prefer this to a smaller camera. it can use all the lenses that Leica makes right now. Together the shooting experience plus the range of lenses that can be used make this a compelling prospect to some and i would include myself in that group. I won't pre order or get it until I know a lot more about it, and it is really too expensive for me to get it, but I do find the package of features very compelling. By the way, I think M lenses performance will be very close to their performance on the M240, but we will have to wait to see how that testing pans out.
Steve Spencer wrote:
My take is that as usual for Leica, shooting this Leica creates a unique and enjoyable shooting experience. This camera compared to any other mirrorless camera has a much better EVF, a much faster responsiveness, and a much simpler interface. it brings a nice view of the scene, a snappy responsiveness, and it is simple to operate. You may not like the size, but there will be people that prefer this to a smaller camera. it can use all the lenses that Leica makes right now. Together the shooting experience plus the range of lenses that can be used make this a compelling prospect to some and i would include myself in that group. I won't pre order or get it until I know a lot more about it, and it is really too expensive for me to get it, but I do find the package of features very compelling. By the way, I think M lenses performance will be very close to their performance on the M240, but we will have to wait to see how that testing pans out....Show more →
Hi Steve,
I hope that Leica Reps can fill me in somewhat about the performance of M lenses on the camera tomorrow. I doubt that I will be able to get any usable files out of the camera to review after the show.
Problem with flip out is it's really vulnerable. This thing is meant for the gulf of Alaska, and it doesn't even need a boat. 
