p.45 #2 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
TheEmrys wrote:
Not sure how anyone is not a fan of Sony sensors...
I've been trying to figure that out with my spare time. Since it bothers me to no end that I hate the output of my Sony gear. It really does bother me, honestly, I'm not trying to be controversial.
I'm shooting a lot of side by side (nonsense, not worth posting) but I think I've sort of figured it out, but I'm really not ready to post my findings.
I've used/have/own more then 8 different professional Sony cameras (or cameras made with Sony sensors). I have REALLY tried to make it work with Sony.
Anyway again, excited to see all the Batis lenses in action.. Especially that little 25/2. It looks great!
p.45 #3 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
adamdewilde wrote:
I've been trying to figure that out with my spare time. Since it bothers me to no end that I hate the output of my Sony gear. It really does bother me, honestly, I'm not trying to be controversial.
Then why are you still being here in this Sony forum?
p.45 #4 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
adamdewilde wrote:
I've used/have/own more then 8 different professional Sony cameras (or cameras made with Sony sensors). I have REALLY tried to make it work with Sony.
Adam, I'm not sure what is your Sony-problem, but I was kind of similar situation and about to give up with Sony. I really struggled to get greens properly out from the RAW-images in 2013&2014. I tried Apple Aperture (what I mainly used with 5DmkII cameras, and was really satisfied to Canon color reproduction), Capture One and Adobe Lightroom (+of course Sony's own software). Always the result was that there was hue shift on greens towards yellow varying by brightness of green. Due to ultra crappy and simplified calibration methods of today (e.g. the stupid and faulty "Adobe Camera Calibration" method, which is too simplified to take account this kind of errors), this was not even fixed by shooting camera profile calibration pictures on every shooting location & light (gigantic extra work and really kills my mood for creativity).
I solved my Sony issue by staying VERY far away from any RAW software, which is any way infected by Sony (e.g. all mentioned software). I do currently my processing using custom coded process based to dcraw in color calibrated Linux environment(s). If I really need the Adobe sliders, then I process image with dcraw to ProPhoto TIFF and edit in PhotoShop using Filter -> ACR, and bring the TIFF back to Linux. By using dcraw I have also got less issues with artificial "plastic" colors (like subjects would be covered by thin layer of translucent wax or something), what you have mentioned few times as well (thou I don't know what "plastic" means for you as it's little subjective how one understands it from image quality aspect).
My method is not practical if you shoot large number of images requiring lots of mass processing e.g. weddings. Over the years I have moved from shooting hundreds of shots to taking only few photos each time I go to shooting - if we would not have digital I would definitely be large format shooter as I prefer slow tripod based process.
Seeing and analyzing what actually is inside the RAW-files, I can't see much wrong in Sony A7/A7r sensor and camera electronics, except the lossy packing causing issues on some kind of scenarios. In the end I just don't prefer the output of Sony influenced software on certain scene types. I do understand that my approach is not for everyone, but based on what I learned I would advice to try some independent RAW software (e.g. Iridient Developer if you are OS X user) before giving up with Sony.
Back to on-topic; I cancelled my pre-order as I would have needed Batis 25 for next two weeks, and then maybe next time on November or February I have shoot needing this kind of lens. Some of the review samples had too much boke CA for my taste, and as I can't get it for next week, I have no hurry getting one. So now I have all the time in world to review the real photos posted to see if production lenses have same kind of boke issues as some review copies did. Unfortunately due to postponed start of sales there is not much Batis 25 images to review for a while...
p.45 #5 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
adamdewilde wrote:
I've been trying to figure that out with my spare time. Since it bothers me to no end that I hate the output of my Sony gear. It really does bother me, honestly, I'm not trying to be controversial.
I'm shooting a lot of side by side (nonsense, not worth posting) but I think I've sort of figured it out, but I'm really not ready to post my findings.
I've used/have/own more then 8 different professional Sony cameras (or cameras made with Sony sensors). I have REALLY tried to make it work with Sony.
Anyway again, excited to see all the Batis lenses in action.. Especially that little 25/2. It looks great!...Show more →
In Lightroom try HSL settings for yellow at -10,-20,+15 as a starting point.
p.45 #8 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Wanted to repeat this here
Quote Originally Posted by davidstock View Post
Thanks Pradeep and Guy. Guy, was that shot with or without in-camera distortion correction?
Without. I turn all that stuff off in camera. I processed in C1 also..
I still have some shots I want to do as well. But between the few of us that actually have them in our hands, some answers will come around.
Now this coming from me because I am used to big lenses , I find the 85 very well balanced both with and without the vertical grip. It's also very light weight too. To me it's smaller than any 85 1.4 but bigger than some 85 1.8 lenses. I would say middle of the road but you won't hear me complain about any of that.
Focusing by wire is interesting, it's not as bad as the 55 which I had a hard time with. This seems a bit more manual focus friendly. I have no problem nailing it both with zoom on and off. Maybe because it's a longer lens the throw seems nice and smooth. I have not tried to go really fast and reality is if you wanted to that, I would think your just better off in AF. You could do both with rear button on camera in manual focus mode hit middle button to get there than release and fine tune manually. But AF does seem fairly accurate.
I have to play with the speed versus feel a little more with fly by wire. But it's better than the 55 that I know for sure.
p.45 #9 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Got my 85mm today from Pro Photo Supply in Portland OR. Not sure how many more they have still. I was told I was the first one bought the Batis in the store.
p.45 #10 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
flash wrote:
In Lightroom try HSL settings for yellow at -10,-20,+15 as a starting point.
Gordon
Thanks, I've tried to LR my photos to death. Maybe I should toss up some RAW files, see what you all can do with them. I'd be the first to admit that since I do a lot of batch work, it's more ideal for me to make a color profile once, and just apply to everything. Then it is for me to sit and play with each photo until it's perfect. Even with profiling software/hardware I can't seem to get results I'm happy with.
p.45 #11 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Adam, I'm not sure what is your Sony-problem, but I was kind of similar situation and about to give up with Sony. I really struggled to get greens properly out from the RAW-images in 2013&2014. I tried Apple Aperture (what I mainly used with 5DmkII cameras, and was really satisfied to Canon color reproduction), Capture One and Adobe Lightroom (+of course Sony's own software). Always the result was that there was hue shift on greens towards yellow varying by brightness of green. Due to ultra crappy and simplified calibration methods of today (e.g. the stupid and faulty "Adobe Camera Calibration" method, which is too simplified to take account this kind of errors), this was not even fixed by shooting camera profile calibration pictures on every shooting location & light (gigantic extra work and really kills my mood for creativity).
I solved my Sony issue by staying VERY far away from any RAW software, which is any way infected by Sony (e.g. all mentioned software). I do currently my processing using custom coded process based to dcraw in color calibrated Linux environment(s). If I really need the Adobe sliders, then I process image with dcraw to ProPhoto TIFF and edit in PhotoShop using Filter -> ACR, and bring the TIFF back to Linux. By using dcraw I have also got less issues with artificial "plastic" colors (like subjects would be covered by thin layer of translucent wax or something), what you have mentioned few times as well (thou I don't know what "plastic" means for you as it's little subjective how one understands it from image quality aspect).
My method is not practical if you shoot large number of images requiring lots of mass processing e.g. weddings. Over the years I have moved from shooting hundreds of shots to taking only few photos each time I go to shooting - if we would not have digital I would definitely be large format shooter as I prefer slow tripod based process.
Seeing and analyzing what actually is inside the RAW-files, I can't see much wrong in Sony A7/A7r sensor and camera electronics, except the lossy packing causing issues on some kind of scenarios. In the end I just don't prefer the output of Sony influenced software on certain scene types. I do understand that my approach is not for everyone, but based on what I learned I would advice to try some independent RAW software (e.g. Iridient Developer if you are OS X user) before giving up with Sony.
Back to on-topic; I cancelled my pre-order as I would have needed Batis 25 for next two weeks, and then maybe next time on November or February I have shoot needing this kind of lens. Some of the review samples had too much boke CA for my taste, and as I can't get it for next week, I have no hurry getting one. So now I have all the time in world to review the real photos posted to see if production lenses have same kind of boke issues as some review copies did. Unfortunately due to postponed start of sales there is not much Batis 25 images to review for a while...
Samuli - Very interesting read. I had to read it twice to take it all in. I think I'll do what you suggest. See if I can get something out of the files. It's not just the colors, but also the way they bleed together (which is more noticeable in print). I'm not really in a position where I need Sony to work for me. So it's not something I'll pursue much more then what you suggested. I'm actually just more curious as to why I don't like the sensors.
It's really just a curiosity of mine. Really the only reason why I bother shooting some Sony frames amidst Leica shooting. I like knowing why I don't like something, so I can appreciate what I do like.
That and, I do see amazing work coming from Sony, so I'm not discrediting the brand, I'm just saying it doesn't work for me.. Though again I wish it did. It's a lot easier to shoot and nail focus with ZE lenses on a A7 then on a 5DIII.
p.45 #12 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
For anyone who pre-ordered from B&H, I talked to the customer service department and this is what they said.
"We were informed by Zeiss that the expected delivery date has been changed to 8/15/15 for all orders. We have received some shipments, but it is being released in limited quantities by the manufacturer."
So I guess most of us missed the first small shipments and are going to have to wait for the next run of lenses
p.45 #16 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Raws I can't upload on these. This is a model about to attend our convention. I will upload more but I have a nasty tooth ache so Im going to take care of that but here is one at 1.8
p.45 #17 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Couple things, Guy. First, hope the tooth settles down. Second, I like the rendering. Great 3D pop. Light looks really harsh. Looks decently sharp for the resolution. Color is hard to jude because of the light. Her hair has good tone in the nuances. Would love a larger image, but take care of yourself.
p.45 #18 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Light was reflected off buildings. I did move to another spot. We did this so fast since it was so extremely hot with about 100 percent humidity and I was in a lot of pain. I will reshoot this with another model in a day or two. I'm not satisfied yet but it is screaming sharp wide wide. It really is a great lens but I want to test it more . As far as buying one don't hesitate for a second . That's not the case for me, I just want to test more and get a better feel for it, IQ wise it's there no question.
Honestly it's not my best effort. Blame me not the lens. I'm not playing games this molar is completely history tommorrow.
