p.17 #1 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
People would get more satisfaction out of their hobby...
gdanmitchell wrote:
I've often observed that if people put 1/10 of the energy into photographs that they put into arguing about photo gear that the world would be filled with astonishing photography. And they would be much happier.
Believe it or not there are times when one can't be out taking photos, a lot of people post here in their lunch breaks at work, or when it is dark/raining, they're looking after kids etc.
I am interested in cameras as pieces of technology as well as photography in general, so sue me
Finally, how can you possibly know what would make me happier, or how much enjoyment I get, or might get out of doing something?
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dhphoto wrote:
Dynamic range really isn't that big a deal for landscape shooters, how do you think we managed with slide film?
Landscapes don't move so are easily shot with brackets if need be.
You and many others are confusing necessity with convenience. A lot of that round here.
You can apply that arguement to anything, autofocus isn't a big deal, how do you think we managed with manual focus cameras? It used to be quite acceptable for a journey from York to London to take three days. Nowadays people would complain if there journey was anywhere near that long. We've moved on since slide film, it's ok to expect better.
p.17 #2 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dacop wrote:
2. Anyone know is there is exposure comp in manual mode?
Monito wrote:
Manual mode is 100% exposure compensation. It is only exposure compensation, with no automatic exposure, hence the name "manual mode".
Nope, in manual mode you can engage auto-ISO which applies a level of automatic exposure for you. But with no option for you to dial in any exposure compensation for those times when the world around isn't all 18% grey. This has been an obvious missing feature for a while.
p.17 #3 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
gdanmitchell wrote:
The instant angst in this thread is hilarious.
The sample shot of the downtown buildings is quite impressive. I'll be ordering one.
Right? This obviously isn't a "do everything" camera. If you want a 50mp FF camera this is your ONLY option on the market. If you don't, buy the one that best suits your needs. No need to sit in the forum and repeatedly state the things you wish it did.
p.17 #4 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Like I said, the most disappointing thing about this camera is we are going to see all of this arguing over DR continue for another few years.
Given the evidence so far in this thread that folks will be compelled to either voice their criticism of Canon, or voice their criticism of people who have criticism of Canon, I have a suggestion. Actually, just a plea: Please be civil about it.
I know it's real tempting to say something snarky or dismissive or to cleverly put someone down and collect a bunch of virtual high fives and likes from people who agree with you. But it has the overall effect if making this a less friendly place.
p.17 #5 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
snapsy wrote:
It should be roughly equivalent to the 6D in terms of shadow performance, maybe slightly higher due to the additional pixels available for noise averaging. Here is a +5EV 6D sample, as compared to the D800:
Wow, the big difference is the color shift, yet I don't see it in the color chart, both the Nikon df and Canon 6d show a blue suitcase versus green for the D800
p.17 #6 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
artd wrote:
Like I said, the most disappointing thing about this camera is we are going to see all of this arguing over DR continue for another few years.
Given the evidence so far in this thread that folks will be compelled to either voice their criticism of Canon, or voice their criticism of people who have criticism of Canon, I have a suggestion. Actually, just a plea: Please be civil about it.
I know it's real tempting to say something snarky or dismissive or to cleverly put someone down and collect a bunch of virtual high fives and likes from people who agree with you. But it has the overall effect if making this a less friendly place.
Agreed. I used to talk DR all the time (even did some technical youtube videos about it) but then I moved on to other areas of interest. I still occasionally respond to earnest questions about DR yet the few times I do I see snarky responses from others who weren't involved in the question. It perplexes me why those who don't care about DR side-discussions are so actively engaged in trying to squelch it. There are many topics discussed in these forums that hold no interest for me, including topics I feel are discussed ad nauseam, yet it would never occur to me to jump in and try to bully people into not discussing it anymore.
p.17 #7 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
When you look up readability studies, you will find that limiting columns to 60 or 72 characters is about right for having greatest ease of readability and greater comprehension. Much greater than 150 or 200 characters wide as you often get on modern wide screen monitors.
I suggest a scroll wheel mouse as a handy device for you.
I'm sure you have one now that it is 2015.
Users are free to limit the size of their browser window, and the page renderer will happily reduce the number of characters per line for them. By manually inserting carriage returns you are preventing other users and present/future forum implementations from formatting your text.
p.17 #8 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dacop wrote:
Exposure comp in Manual (as in the 7d2 and DX) allows me to auto the ISO
Then call it Auto ISO. Manual is manual. I gather some manufacturers
have muddied the water with the terminology, but you and we do not have
to do the same.
p.17 #9 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
If Canon tweaks firmware to allow Dual ISO (without a Magic Lantern hack job), much of this DR "issue" goes away. At 50MP, there is plenty of resolution to spare to do this. The DPAF in other bodies is ideal for it as well.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't make this a simple menu "on/off" option.
p.17 #10 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
ben egbert wrote:
Wow, the big difference is the color shift, yet I don't see it in the color chart, both the Nikon df and Canon 6d show a blue suitcase versus green for the D800
The color shift occurs in the deep shadows because that is where the noise floor is and where small differences in noise between the color channels starts to manifest as color casts. In that sample photo the green suitcase is darker and less reflective and thus is deeper into the shadows vs the color chart/stuffed animal. Btw the shadow cast can been improved somewhat by utilizing ACR/LR's shadow tint slider, although that usually introduces hue shifts for other parts of the image. Additionally, for important photos the black level of the individual channels can be modified by converting the raw to a DNG and using an EXIF tool, which can also help to remove the cast while still avoiding hue shifts.
p.17 #11 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
Then call it Auto ISO. Manual is manual. I gather some manufacturers
have muddied the water with the terminology, but you and we do not have
to do the same.
But as Canon have sensibly added this feature into it's most recent high end cameras (the ability to select M and have the camera decide the correct exposure using ISO) then it does make sense to add exposure compensation to this mode. To not add it to a flagship new model is a great shame. It's not like it would have cost them anything at all.
Canon really do appear to have made this camera down to a price - the old 5D3 body coupled with oversized sensors from the 7D2 production line. Much less investment and thought has gone into this than I had hoped.
p.17 #12 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
People would get more satisfaction out of their hobby...
Matt Grum wrote:
how can you possibly know what would make me happier, or how much enjoyment I get, or might get out of doing something?
I can't and I didn't try. Note: I wrote "People", not "All people" or "Everybody".
I was speaking generally, not all-inclusively.
And it was angst and screams and frustration that I was addressing. If you
enjoy the new gear and the analysis, great, so do I. But people (generally)
who experience pain and anger and gnash their teeth are not having an
enjoyable experience.
Matt Grum wrote:
Nope, in manual mode you can engage auto-ISO which applies a level of automatic exposure for you. But with no option for you to dial in any exposure compensation for those times when the world around isn't all 18% grey. This has been an obvious missing feature for a while.
p.17 #13 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
Then call it Auto ISO. Manual is manual. I gather some manufacturers
have muddied the water with the terminology, but you and we do not have
to do the same.
Pentax call it T/Av mode, in T you specify the shutter speed and in Av you specify the aperture, and in T/Av you specify both. M is fully manual and everyone is happy
p.17 #16 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Matt Grum wrote:
It comes down to this. Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Canon to do better in certain areas, such as dynamic range, because after all they are asking us for $4,000.
The marketplace will ultimately decide this, not personal requirements. If the DR people are as powerful a market force as many here would have us believe then this camera will fail and Canon will dump the price just like it did when the EOS-M failed.
p.17 #17 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
I understand what you are saying, and that only applies when you have the time to deal with all three numbers manually...shitter, f stop and ISO.
I have to say that I agree that shitter speed control is sometimes very important, though the idea of controlling it "manually" raises a few troubling questions... ;-)
jcolwell wrote:
Take a deep breath and then just ignore all of the useless talk...The trick is to navigate between the trolls and haters, without getting too pissed off.
We're going to have to ban you for your unreasonably reasonable perspective, too. ;-)
(Who reminds people that the "hide me" button can make forum participation a much more friendly proposition. If you don't like that, feel free to hide me! ;-)
howard wrote:
There is a forum (or forums) for that. This is a gear forum as such.
Yet, it seems to me that the meaning of the technical measurements and features is relative to their usefulness for "that" — the creation of photographs. It only matters that X has .1% more of Y to the extent that Y results in improvements in photographs. It is just about impossible — and certainly quite meaningless — to evaluate the technologies of photography without practical reference to their actual effects on the qualities that we value in photographs.
To my way of thinking, to do otherwise would be equivalent to having a forum on cooking gear that didn't care what the food tastes like.
p.17 #20 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Klaus Priebe wrote:
Dynamic range is a huge factor for landscape shooters. Have you ever seen a file from a 5D III pulling out 3 stops out of the shadow/dark areas. Its not a pretty sight.
14+ stops DR makes a huge difference. I have pulled out 3 + stops from my D810 and the files are still very clean. It makes life so much better. If the new Canon can still only produce 11+ stops of DR its like putting lipstick on a pig
Yes Klaus, I realize DR is a huge factor for landscape. My original question stands, though - Just how much DR are we going to need? How seriously does the DR limitation affect people?
Again, I realize it's nice to have more DR than less, and again I also mention I know the 6D's shadow lifting is noticeably nicer than the 5D3 shadow lifting.
According to DXOMark, 6D's DR is 12.1EV vs 11.7EV on the 5D3 -- not a huge difference, but it's there.
So, if Canon says the new cameras have the DR of the 5D3, but can lift shadows very close to the 6D, would that be a major hindrance to a lot of people?
I'm asking - not making a statement either way.
YES - having 20 stops of DR in a camera sensor would be awesome. YES, my D800's 3 more stops of DR is nice to have vs a 5D3 - but I have to wonder just how often others really need those extra stops.
If the camera lifts "good enough" (6D-ish), then is it really all that bad?
I'm playing devil's advocate here - if the camera lifts worse than the 6D (like the 5D3), then it may be a disappointment for some people, sure. But I'm betting it'll work for a great many, also.
