p.15 #1 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
The real question is how much you can push shadows without introducing artifacts. I am not sure that is identical with DR.
I bracket and blend, I am not sure an extra 2 stops would always make this unnecessary.
Of course I would like lots of DR, but not enough to switch brands. My loyalty to Canon is based on my lens collection and my familiarization with the system. For me, the most exciting news is the 11-24, and mine is on preorder.
p.15 #2 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Gunzorro wrote:
Now, we have the 5Ds coming, with 5.0 FPS, and that's become some rallying cry for a FPS disgrace. ? I don't get it. It's nearly the same FPS as the 5D3, while pushing through images that are over twice the size...
I'm not saying any of these models has been "The Perfect Camera", but then again, I haven't found that unicorn of cameras among any of the manufacturers.
Ultimately, there is no one saying we can't own multiple brands. There's no disgrace in having a few Canon cameras, and a Nikon (or Sony) too. Each does something different, even if slightly. Each feels different and had a different UI. Lenses differ. But when push comes to shove, I don't see how we can go wrong if we chose only one specific body to use for all "normal" needs -- could be the new Pentax FF! Any of these brands has so much more to offer today than 10 years ago -- and those older cameras are still chugging out decent photos! ...Show more →
I agree.
I also have a great deal of success with the fps of the 5DII. 6fps is faster than 5fps, but you aren't going to get much better results from one additional frame in a second or worse results from one less. And if you really need high fps, you need a camera other than a high MP full frame body like this new one. You want a 1Dx or one of the fast cropped sensor models.
Everyone preferring a FF body with 50MP+, 15 stops of DR, 12fps, and a cost lower than that of the 5DIII should feel free to buy that camera instead of this one. ;-)
p.15 #3 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dhphoto wrote:
Dynamic range really isn't that big a deal for landscape shooters, how do you think we managed with slide film?
Landscapes don't move so are easily shot with brackets if need be.
You and many others are confusing necessity with convenience. A lot of that round here.
I think you're both right and wrong.
10 years ago people said "wedding photography can be done with ISO400. How do you think we managed with XYZ". It was the same argument.
However, by 10 years later by having "ISO6400", we expand creative our opportunities. There are photos we simply couldn't take 10 years ago, but it was still "wedding photography".
In the landscape world there are undoubtedly many landscape photos which don't need more DR. But there are some that you simply can't shoot any other way... because some landscapes DO move.
That said, some of it is for convenience and also some of it is because "they have something we don't". The ones in the latter camp would do well to sell Canon and move to Nikon. Beware though because we have stuff they don't too
p.15 #4 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
ben egbert wrote:
The real question is how much you can push shadows without introducing artifacts. I am not sure that is identical with DR.
I bracket and blend, I am not sure an extra 2 stops would always make this unnecessary.
Of course I would like lots of DR, but not enough to switch brands. My loyalty to Canon is based on my lens collection and my familiarization with the system. For me, the most exciting news is the 11-24, and mine is on preorder.
There are loads of things you can do, you can bracket, you can combine RAW conversions made at different densities, you can indroduce layer masks, selective noise removal, all sorts
The DR debate is both boring and pointless but yet here it is again. And again.
Once again we say we know the Nikons and Sonys are good but don't dismiss the Canons because they can do the job if you know how.
And no, once again, Canon have not covered themselves in glory today, not at all
p.15 #5 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
ben egbert wrote:
The real question is how much you can push shadows without introducing artifacts. I am not sure that is identical with DR.
Yes, that's true. "Engineering" dynamic range and "visual" dynamic range are IMO two different things. The 6d "engineering" dynamic range is the same as the 5d3 (give or take). However, I'd happily push the 6d much further.
p.15 #6 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
The funny thing is, those who complain now about lack of DR,lack of ISO and how the camera isn't what they hyped themselves to be - they will be the first to buy the camera anyways...
Although it's not for the work that I do, it's a great camera for studio photography. Maybe macro photographers, even a few real landscape photographers.
Though I am sure I'll see a tons of these in the hands of wedding photographers too,since new 50mp camera will make their work 20X better...
p.15 #9 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
ben egbert wrote:
The real question is how much you can push shadows without introducing artifacts. I am not sure that is identical with DR.
I bracket and blend, I am not sure an extra 2 stops would always make this unnecessary.
Of course I would like lots of DR, but not enough to switch brands. My loyalty to Canon is based on my lens collection and my familiarization with the system. For me, the most exciting news is the 11-24, and mine is on preorder.
It should be roughly equivalent to the 6D in terms of shadow performance, maybe slightly higher due to the additional pixels available for noise averaging. Here is a +5EV 6D sample, as compared to the D800:
p.15 #10 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
gdanmitchell wrote:
I agree.
I also have a great deal of success with the fps of the 5DII. 6fps is faster than 5fps, but you aren't going to get much better results from one additional frame in a second or worse results from one less. And if you really need high fps, you need a camera other than a high MP full frame body like this new one. You want a 1Dx or one of the fast cropped sensor models.
Everyone preferring a FF body with 50MP+, 15 stops of DR, 12fps, and a cost lower than that of the 5DIII should feel free to buy that camera instead of this one. ;-)...Show more →
I often shot in burst mode for brackets or to catch a breaking wave. I do this in live view which eliminates the mirror. I sometimes have subject movement when blending, but never see camera shake. And the fast capture greatly reduces subject motion.
p.15 #11 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
snapsy wrote:
The model photograph was a head and shoulders portrait @ 170mm so DOF is thin. Additionally, as pixel density increases the viewing magnification at 1:1 increases along with it, which reduces the effective DOF as DOF is a perceptual measurement based on viewing distance and magnification. This is one of the conundrums of higher MP imaging esp for DOF-limited shooting scenarios where you have to stop down; more MP means a smaller CoC which means a smaller aperture but higher MP also means diffraction effects become more noticeable at 1:1 at smaller apertures so you have a limited range of apertures to work with to extract the maximum acuity from the sensor....Show more →
Fortunately, with the EOS flange focal distance there is a decent selection of lenses that perform very well in the range of F/1.2 to the apparent diffraction limited aperture of around F/6 for the 5Ds(R). Rough calculations based on the released specs of 8688 x 5792 resolution on a 36x24mm sensor at pixel pitch of 4.14µm gives 120.66 lp/mm Spatial resolution and 2896 lp/ph image resolution.
As I've said earlier the Color Filter Array is hopefully going to be a great strength of these cameras. The example pics of skin tones are very promising.
One thing that no one has mentioned in regards to dynamic range is Magic Lantern Dual ISO and expose to the right, which has improved DR on past models. Possible there will be a way to have custom firmware to create 14 bit RAW files with logarithmic encoding to shift more bits to highlight areas at the expense of shadows or vice versa.
p.15 #13 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Good thread with a bowl of popcorn. Some of the usual DRones chimed in with predictable bitching even though they keep telling us they have moved on from Canon bodies.
My prediction is that it will sell quite well given it's limited user base. Canon has no problem selling 1DX's to a limited user base either and that's a $7000 body. Early adopters will pay the premium price no matter what and others will wait for rebates and price reductions. Like it or not there is a user base out there that doesn't seem bothered by Canon's low ISO DR.
Looking at the body and feature list it doesn't look like Canon spent a lot of developmental resources on it so they get a high MP body out there now but at minimum cost. Taking a cue from Nikon they could update the body/sensor later in a much shorter time frame.
p.15 #14 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
Manual mode is 100% exposure compensation. It is only exposure compensation, with no automatic exposure, hence the name "manual mode".
I understand what you are saying, and that only applies when you have the time to deal with all three numbers manually...shitter, f stop and ISO. When I am shooting indoor plays and concerts and need all images at -1 exposure. If all three numbers are manual, the exposure is constantly changing as the lighting changes on stage. Exposure comp in Manual (as in the 7d2 and DX) allows me to auto the ISO (because I dont care about that setting) and dial in the sutter and f stop i want, and still keep it at -1. The ISO changes but again that is not important to me.
That is why I need this feature. It worked perfectly for me on the 7d2, but i just never liked the image quality of that camera.
p.15 #15 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
ggreene wrote:
Good thread with a bowl of popcorn. Some of the usual DRones chimed in with predictable bitching even though they keep telling us they have moved on from Canon bodies.
My prediction is that it will sell quite well given it's limited user base. Canon has no problem selling 1DX's to that limited user base either and that's a $7000 body. Early adopters will pay the premium price no matter what and others will wait for rebates and price reductions. Like it or not there is a user base out there that doesn't seem bothered by Canon's low ISO DR.
Looking at the body and feature list it doesn't look like Canon spent a lot of developmental resources on it so they get a high MP body out there now but at minimum cost. Taking a cue from Nikon they could update the body/sensor later in a much shorter time frame.
Shame this place ALWAYS deteriorates into the DR debate, it really is boring. Perhaps those who want to argue it should have their own forum where they can all be happy together?
p.15 #16 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
I understand what you are saying, and that only applies when you have the time to deal with all three numbers manually...shitter, f stop and ISO. When I am shooting indoor plays and concerts and need all images at -1 exposure. If all three numbers are manual, the exposure is constantly changing as the lighting changes on stage. Exposure comp in Manual (as in the 7d2 and DX) allows me to auto the ISO (because I dont care about that setting) and dial in the sutter and f stop i want, and still keep it at -1. The ISO changes but again that is not important to me.
That is why I need this feature. It worked perfectly for me on the 7d2, but i just never liked the image quality of that camera. And from what I understand, this feature is basically standard in Nikon cameras.
p.15 #17 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
AndereObjektiv wrote:
Fortunately, with the EOS flange focal distance there is a decent selection of lenses that perform very well in the range of F/1.2 to the apparent diffraction limited aperture of around F/6 for the 5Ds(R). Rough calculations based on the released specs of 8688 x 5792 resolution on a 36x24mm sensor at pixel pitch of 4.14µm gives 120.66 lp/mm Spatial resolution and 2896 lp/ph image resolution.
As I've said earlier the Color Filter Array is hopefully going to be a great strength of these cameras. The example pics of skin tones are very promising.
One thing that no one has mentioned in regards to dynamic range is Magic Lantern Dual ISO and expose to the right, which has improved DR on past models. Possible there will be a way to have custom firmware to create 14 bit RAW files with logarithmic encoding to shift more bits to highlight areas at the expense of shadows or vice versa. ...Show more →
I agree, there are plenty of Canon lenses up to the task but it doesn't solve the DOF MP riddle, at least not without focus stacking. Good point on ML - hopefully Canon kept the dual ISO hardware logic in place for ML to utilize.
p.15 #18 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
I have never seen so much useless talk on this forum,when new gear was announced....
There are numerous threads already open, initially started by the 'rumors' and now fed by the official release....
Jesus Christ !!! when I first signed up on this forum it used to be more about photography and the process of creating photographs ..
If you people think this is your idea of a lucrative gear discussion, then you're way off.....
I can still remember all the stupid talk before the launch of 6D/5D3...countless threads, countless trolling,countless offensive remarks...
now it's all over again, but on steroids...
I understand the idea of talking about new gear, but just bitching and whining about new un-tested products , as if CANON is at your feet and its sole purpose is to design the camera FOR YOU it's really stupid...
If I were a pro and needed the best tool for the job, i'd switch or I'd buy the TOOL which gets the job done, I wouldn't waste hours bitching on fredmiranda forum...
It's ok to have an opinion, it's ok to disagree, it's ok to be disappointed, but there's a thin line between this and bitchin' and whinin' like it's Christmas and you didn't get the gift you were hoping for....
It's a Canon board, you don't like Canon products? Go buy Nikon, Pentax, Sony or whatever.....
Dynamic Range is the new holly grail of photography.... And it's as if somebody doesn't possess the ultimate gear as far as DR is concerned, then automatically he's a lame photographer and he will never be able to shoot landscape or whatever....
I am only disappointed in the way some people react here and how they express their opinions (whether it's on Canon gear or on other photographers/members)...That's my only disappointment
Gdanmitchell was 100% right. Of most of you would put your efforts in shooting rather in ranting, this forum would be a much nicer place ....
p.15 #19 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dhphoto wrote:
DRones, I like that
Shame this place ALWAYS deteriorates into the DR debate, it really is boring. Perhaps those who want to argue it should have their own forum where they can all be happy together?
Wish I could take credit for it but it's from Neuroanatomist on the Canon Rumors forum.
p.15 #20 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Jeff wrote:
Dratted Facebook for making me aware that his thread even existed! Think I'll log back off for a year and wait until the smoke clears...
Are you kidding? This is the best thing since the Romans sent criminals into the ring to get slaughtered by lions
I'm down with the flu but have this thread on a two minute refresh rate and these guys crack me up. Canon couldn't have picked a better date. Last time I had the flu was 1997, before FM existed, and it's so more bearable today
I only think Dan should be banned from this thread. Way too reasonable
