p.14 #2 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
cputeq wrote:
I have a question to pose - Why all the complaints about 5D's dynamic range?
YES - Sony/Nikon DR is better, that's a given.
But, currently an owner of D800 (and former A7), I rarely ran into that limitation with my 5D3 or 6D, and I rarely USE that ability with my D800.
Sometimes? Sure - I accidentally underexpose a shot by a ridiculous 5 stops and I'm thinking "hey, I wonder how good I can rescue this in Lightroom", more as a technical exercise than trying to actually make a good shot.
Realistically, though? If the new 5D cameras can reach the shadow raising ability of the 6D (does this affect DR ratings?), I think shooters will be fine with it.
I'm not trying to defend Canon's apparently lack of progress (or, slower-than-we'd-want progress) in the DR area, but I have to really wonder if "good enough" has won the day in DR.
More is better, sure, but at least with the 6D (and mostly with the 5D3, though some yuckiness could show up in extremes), the DR seemed to be good enough -- maybe I'm not as picky as I used to be? ...Show more →
Dynamic range is a huge factor for landscape shooters. Have you ever seen a file from a 5D III pulling out 3 stops out of the shadow/dark areas. Its not a pretty sight.
14+ stops DR makes a huge difference. I have pulled out 3 + stops from my D810 and the files are still very clean. It makes life so much better. If the new Canon can still only produce 11+ stops of DR its like putting lipstick on a pig
p.14 #3 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Scott Stoness wrote:
5 fps with better sd performance - sounds great
it does not say that it has the 7dii feature of shutter speeds timed beyond 30s but I expect it does
new feature of auto-delay on mirror lock up - sounds great
50mpx
My gut feel is that I will buy it but I will wait to see some tests.
The d810 does not work with my ts17. The a7r requires adapters and is just awkward. And I mostly shoot bracketed shots for dynamic range for landscape. I am just tired of that clunky, battery using, adapter using a7r.
p.14 #4 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dacop wrote:
I have not read through the 13 pages so I apologize if this has been asked and discussed...
1. So this is the NEXT "5D..." camera? This is one up from 5d3 or will there be a 5d4?
2. Anyone know is there is exposure comp in manual mode?
Thanks
Rumors are of a 5D4 announcement in August, no info on specs, some speculation it might have 4K video, otherwise there is little known. These new 5D's are simply high-res monsters, some are disappointed that DR hasn't been extended like EXMOR tech has and that's understandable. Canon's claim for these two bodies is much better color fidelity, but that's not proved as of yet given there are no samples for comparison.
This is just their announcement, I've not seen a firm delivery date, nor any 'real' reviews, we must wait for the finer details and conclusions...
p.14 #5 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Monito wrote:
People would get more satisfaction out of their hobby...
I've often observed that if people put 1/10 of the energy into photographs that they put into arguing about photo gear that the world would be filled with astonishing photography. And they would be much happier.
(I say this about people who are extraordinarily passionate for or against any type of gear. )
A reader could be forgiven for thinking that some actually enjoy getting worked up about this stuff.
Dan
By the way, there are "fanboys," but there are equally obsessive "anti-fanboys." Fundamentally, in terms or relationships with things, both are expressions of similar ways of thinking.
p.14 #6 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
I'm a pro photographer and use my 5D3 camera every week. I imagine most of the whining on this thread is from hobbyists who want one camera to do nearly everything, and possibly cook eggs.
For me, this camera provides amazing opportunities to create large, detailed prints without the need to invest in an expensive medium format camera. Sure, it won't be as terrific as a MFD, but for a relatively inexpensive price it will get you close to that. And if you have problems with dynamic range, then you possibly need to expand your own photographic skills. No camera is perfect, as nearly all photographers are not perfect, and I can't help wonder if those complaining about a camera that they've never held or used are as judgmental about their own skills as they are on a camera they have had absolutely no experience with. My decision will be made after I go to a camera store, shoot a few test shots and look at them on my monitor. Then I can make an accurate decision on whether this camera suits my needs.
For those who need dynamic range, they can put their money where their mouth is by buying a Pentax 645z, which is an amazing camera at an affordable price, and you can buy some inexpensive lenses on ebay.
p.14 #7 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Klaus Priebe wrote:
Dynamic range is a huge factor for landscape shooters. Have you ever seen a file from a 5D III pulling out 3 stops out of the shadow/dark areas. Its not a pretty sight.
14+ stops DR makes a huge difference. I have pulled out 3 + stops from my D810 and the files are still very clean. It makes life so much better. If the new Canon can still only produce 11+ stops of DR its like putting lipstick on a pig
Dynamic range really isn't that big a deal for landscape shooters, how do you think we managed with slide film?
Landscapes don't move so are easily shot with brackets if need be.
You and many others are confusing necessity with convenience. A lot of that round here.
p.14 #8 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Pixel Perfect wrote:
There's nothing left to argue, the war is lost for the DR naysayers, this is not religion this is scientifically demonstrable effect, not believing the data doesn't make it wrong.
Unfortunately scientific facts don't always exert the persuasive power you'd expect, either in the case of sensors or religions
And when Sony releases its inevitable 50mp sensor with better DR there will be plenty of arguments.
I admit, it's disappointing that Canon apparently hasn't made any huge technological leaps here, but still, I am interested in seeing how this sensor performs overall. Assuming that fixed pattern noise has been mitigated, that will help a lot. So I'll temper my disappointment and wait for sample files to become available.
p.14 #9 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Ziffl3 wrote:
The sample image of the model in white .... am I the only one who is questioning the f8?
Her face is in focus but the earring on her right ear is out of focus.
and most of the top part of the dress (her left)is out of focus and nearly blown out.
Considering the cropping includes space around her face ... this feels more like f4.
My expectation would be able to see just about everything in focus.
The model photograph was a head and shoulders portrait @ 170mm so DOF is thin. Additionally, as pixel density increases the viewing magnification at 1:1 increases along with it, which reduces the effective DOF as DOF is a perceptual measurement based on viewing distance and magnification. This is one of the conundrums of higher MP imaging esp for DOF-limited shooting scenarios where you have to stop down; more MP means a smaller CoC which means a smaller aperture but higher MP also means diffraction effects become more noticeable at 1:1 at smaller apertures so you have a limited range of apertures to work with to extract the maximum acuity from the sensor.
p.14 #10 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
Thanks Finger...I have been saving my dollars for the 5d4 if and when it is ever announced. I would have gone with the 5d3 but need exposure comp in manual mode. The DX is too expensive and I didn't like the 7d2 image quality. I'm hoping a 5d4 will have this feature.
p.14 #12 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dhphoto wrote:
Dynamic range really isn't that big a deal for landscape shooters, how do you think we managed with slide film?
Landscapes don't move so are easily shot with brackets if need be.
You and many others are confusing necessity with convenience. A lot of that round here.
So you want to go down that road again?
There are cases when multiple exposures (bracketing) is just not practical, or even possible. Cases in point: moving waters, moving clouds, flapping flags, etc.
p.14 #13 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
As usual, I am astonished at all the drivel from the complainers. I have no idea whether I'll get one (I resent paying this much for any camera), but it looks a great addition to me and probably just what the doctor ordered.
p.14 #15 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
dhphoto wrote:
Dynamic range really isn't that big a deal for landscape shooters, how do you think we managed with slide film?...
I had almost replied to Klaus's post, but then thought better of it.
Dynamic range is important to landscape photographers, but it isn't the only important thing, nor is it necessarily the most important thing. (By the way, Klaus knows landscape photography, so his comments about print quality should not be dismissed out of hand. At the same time, others who know landscape photography equally well come to a different conclusion.)
I'm not invested in the choices that others make about cameras. There are fine reasons to shoot Nikon, to continue shooting Sony, or to use the new Canon 5DS bodies. (Or to move from DSLRs to MF.) I know excellent landscape photographers who do beautiful work who have made (or will soon make) each of these choices.
There are certainly differences among the various options — higher or lower sensor resolution, AA filter or not, mirrorless or DSLR, small or large, X amount of DR or X+ amount of DR, functionality for things outside of landscape photography, compatibility with existing gear, cost issues... you name it.
Frankly, I don't think there is one "right" answer to the DR question. First, I want to actually see production models of the new camera before we get too riled up about something like DR. Second, there are reasonable differences of opinion about the amount of value to assign to X amount of additional DR, and there are questions about what each photographer might give up to get it.
I think it is a bit unrealistic to generalize to all landscape photographers (either saying that DR is the most important thing to them or that it doesn't matter) since each will come to a different conclusion. Of course, if I'm wrong (or right) about that, all the forum arguing in the world won't matter — we'll see fine landscape photographers (not just a few forum posters) leave Canon in droves, continue to use Canon in number similar to what they are now, or flock to Canon because they like the camera.
I'm betting on the middle of those two options ending up being the case.
p.14 #16 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
pKai wrote:
Agreement or disagreement with the features of the 5DS aside.... the only thing that absolutely does not make sense about this camera is the lack of higher frame rates in the crop modes.
It makes ZERO sense to have in-camera crop modes in the first place if you don't get anything from it.... Might as well shoot FF and crop in post.... WTF, Canon.... I want to hear a technical reason why you could no do this....
Other than making smaller files -- and if this matters to you, you need a better computer even without the 5DS -- there is ZERO benefit to the crop modes as implemented in the 5DS/R....Show more →
I think someone else holds a patent that prevents them implementing that. Just like the on-chip ADC is patented by someone else preventing Canon from achieving the low ISO DR that Exmor provides.
p.14 #17 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
howard wrote:
So you want to go down that road again?
There are cases when multiple exposures (bracketing) is just not practical, or even possible. Cases in point: moving waters, moving clouds, flapping flags, etc.
Besides, landscape isn't the only application.
If you had bothered to read my posts you would see I'm not actually very impressed with today's offerings, I think Canon have fallen behind
But that doesn't alter the fact a lot of bollocks is talked and that was some of it. There are always ways of getting round issues if you know your trade, which is one of the reasons I don't have the same issues as some users here.
p.14 #20 · Official: Canon 5DS, 5DS R and 11-24mm lens announced!
I wanted to put a little perspective into the 5Ds' 5.0 FPS debate and how it seemingly disappoints a lot of potential owners.
I can certainly see a legit complaint from people like pKai, who would like the 1.6X crop mode to offer a much faster FPS when it is engaged. That would be sweet, and who knows? Maybe it will be addressed by firmware update later on.
I'm not an action or sports shooter, so I don't need super-high FPS. If I did, my choices would be simple and excellent: the 1DX or new 7D2 (maybe even the 1D4).
For general picture taking, I am always on the single shot mode, almost never in continuous. That might put me in the minority or majority, I don't know. But that's how I shoot.
My first FF camera was the 5D, now nearly a decade old (come October 2015). That camera offered 3.0 FPS, and I got along fine with it photographing everything from architecture to corporate events, never using continuous FPS. It was never intended to rival the 1D2 as the reigning speed king.
Next was the wonderful (and to me, still wonderful) 5D2, and it only raised the FPS to 3.9. Still, no change in my methods and it fully satisfied me, pushing the shutter multiple times to get shots needed (composing was always more important than speed for me).
I skipped purchasing (but tried twice as a CPS loaner) the newer 5D3, but never took advantage of its higher 6.0 FPS. I'll admit that is a benefit, especially compared to the original 3.0 FPS. And I don't begrudge anyone wanting to use it all the time in continuous mode -- just not a tool I need.
Now, we have the 5Ds coming, with 5.0 FPS, and that's become some rallying cry for a FPS disgrace. ? I don't get it. It's nearly the same FPS as the 5D3, while pushing through images that are over twice the size.
I could go on with many more areas where the once wonderful 5D has been improved upon greatly in a step by step process up to the newest model. DR has certainly improved. LV and video didn't even exist in the first model. Lots of great features and processing speed. Price is still in the same affordable range that made the 5D a huge hit and has carried if forward.
I'm not saying any of these models has been "The Perfect Camera", but then again, I haven't found that unicorn of cameras among any of the manufacturers.
Ultimately, there is no one saying we can't own multiple brands. There's no disgrace in having a few Canon cameras, and a Nikon (or Sony) too. Each does something different, even if slightly. Each feels different and had a different UI. Lenses differ. But when push comes to shove, I don't see how we can go wrong if we chose only one specific body to use for all "normal" needs -- could be the new Pentax FF! Any of these brands has so much more to offer today than 10 years ago -- and those older cameras are still chugging out decent photos!
