p.4 #2 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Steve Wylie wrote:
If someone I do not know, or whose work I cannot see, conveys to me that my body of work or my style is somehow deficient (which is different than pointing out specific problems with details of my offered photograph), how am I to evaluate that opinion, other than to simply toss it off as useless or, more practically, not a prospective customer?
If everyone here took that approach to comments they disagree with or don't respect, discussions like this one wouldn't happen at all. Right?
p.4 #3 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Like I said in a previous post the great thing about the world wide web is everyone has a voice. The bad thing about the world wide web is everyone has a voice. There are people that are not on the same visual level making comments on work and then when the photographer defends the work they are then told that they are being defensive and they really didn't want feedback...BLAH BLAH BLAH...
If you can't defend your work then you had better get out now.
To many are looking for everyone to lke their work and I would say to that if everyone likes and understands your work then you are playing to the lowest common denominator. You are playing it safe. I get nervous if to many people like my work. It means I'm not pushing beyond the pedestrian.
A great quote by Martha Graham.
"No artist is ahead of his time. He is his time; it is just that others are behind the times."-Martha Graham
p.4 #6 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
airfrogusmc wrote:
Like I said in a previous post the great thing about the world wide web is everyone has a voice. The bad thing about the world wide web is everyone has a voice. There are people that are not on the same visual level making comments on work and then when the photographer defends the work they are then told that they are being defensive and they really didn't want feedback...BLAH BLAH BLAH...
If you can't defend your work then you had better get out now.
To many are looking for everyone to lke their work and I would say to that if everyone likes and understands your work then you are playing to the lowest common denominator. You are playing it safe. I get nervous if to many people like my work. It means I'm not pushing beyond the pedestrian.
A great quote by Martha Graham.
"No artist is ahead of his time. He is his time; it is just that others are behind the times."-Martha Graham
I agree. These are forums for review and C&C and help. Granted, some people can't say anything nice, and they should shut up. But there is a way to offer C&C while being polite and kind and firm. People never seem to mind getting C&C provided it's positive, but Lisa has, in my opinion, consistently posted images and then when people offer C&C, she deletes comments, deletes images, or ceases posting in the threads.
We all knows Lisa's work. It's stunning for what it is (although definitely not my taste). But if she continues to post similar things, and people start to grow tired of it, she may want to consider trying something new and heeding the advice of others. Even if someone doesn't post their own images, they may offer advice and C&C from their perspective.
Being so defensive after multiple "featured" awards on FM, and having a single thread span into the dozens of pages should be enough validation to grow a little bit of a thick skin, but Lisa... you don't have that. And you should. Stop being defensive. Leave your images up. There are a million people on FM who will consistently praise you regardless of what you do. There are a select few who will consistently slam you regardless of what you do. Listen to the middle 50-60% of those who may offer something of some advice, in way of editing, style, composition, vision. Otherwise, your posts of "Well, this is what I do and this is what I like" will fall on deaf ears, because you post - yet you don't want to hear what people say.
p.4 #7 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Prettym1k3 wrote:
I agree. These are forums for review and C&C and help. Granted, some people can't say anything nice, and they should shut up. But there is a way to offer C&C while being polite and kind and firm. People never seem to mind getting C&C provided it's positive, but Lisa has, in my opinion, consistently posted images and then when people offer C&C, she deletes comments, deletes images, or ceases posting in the threads.
We all knows Lisa's work. It's stunning for what it is (although definitely not my taste). But if she continues to post similar things, and people start to grow tired of it, she may want to consider trying something new and heeding the advice of others. Even if someone doesn't post their own images, they may offer advice and C&C from their perspective.
Being so defensive after multiple "featured" awards on FM, and having a single thread span into the dozens of pages should be enough validation to grow a little bit of a thick skin, but Lisa... you don't have that. And you should. Stop being defensive. Leave your images up. There are a million people on FM who will consistently praise you regardless of what you do. There are a select few who will consistently slam you regardless of what you do. Listen to the middle 50-60% of those who may offer something of some advice, in way of editing, style, composition, vision. Otherwise, your posts of "Well, this is what I do and this is what I like" will fall on deaf ears, because you post - yet you don't want to hear what people say.
p.4 #9 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Come on, love or hate her work she is like Geddes and Wegman in that she has something most will never achieve. A style. I don't see many folks telling those two they should change what they are doing. And she is starting to get some real recognition. All the experts that tell her she shouldn't be shooting what she is shooting just crack me up. A lot of petty and jealous folks for sure. Not to much unlike those that rip on photographs now fetching prices that were only reserved for paintings and other art forms. Instead of being happy that photographs are now being taken seriously by collectors they rip on the photograph, the people collecting the photograph and the photographers.
Lisa should also handle it better. If you can't defend your work in an appropriate way then it is going to indeed be a bumpy road. But even when you put up a strong argument folks say things like, if you don't want the critique don't post etc, instead of really debating the work. Art directors and account managers make those guys with those kind of comments look like pussycats. And they tell ya right to your face in person LoL If you can put forward a good argument to support your work you can occasionally win the debate but if you get emotional your done.
p.4 #10 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Yes, I'm sure I look like a total tool now. I get it. I should 'handle the CC' better. The problem here is that the comments saying 'Your work sucks, it's all boring, it all looks the same, it's meaningless' is NOT helpful CC. Helpful CC would be something along the lines of 'your skin tones in image #2 need work', etc. Example - when Jeremy told me I'd mushed up my skin tones too much on the little redhead I shot - I took it to heart and have made some adjustments to my post processing based on that critique. THAT was helpful. Either way, it is rare that I get that from people. It's always the old 'your stuff is boring and looks the same' comments. ALWAYS. So I have an established style that I'm happy with - is that really a bad thing?? I'm not an FPJ photographer - probably never will be. I can appreciate that type of work when done well but it isn't me. I sometimes think that is what these commentators are alluding to - but it's not likely to happen. It's just not my cup of tea. Yes, I realize that I look like an ass now and I should grow a thicker skin. I get it. But please, please refrain from telling me my work is boring and pointless - if that's what you think, I'd appreciate you not even wasting your precious time looking at it. Those types of comments are hurtful and not helpful in any way, shape, or form.
p.4 #11 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
There ya go Lisa. Great defense and I agree. Knowing who you are as a photographer and being very comfortable with it is half the battle. When you create, not everyone is going to like it. And that is a good thing...
Keep up the good work. Your PP is seamless as well as you having a strong ability to see light and then capturing the image in a specific way to allow for your PP.
p.4 #13 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Lisa, you know the people who make the comments about your work being boring are just jealous, right? Haha ;-) It's true but also seriously, you've made a very successful business for yourself and have gained admiration from many for not only your photographic abilities but your post processing skills as well. You're right that most of the "critique" comments you get are just jabs and not really critique at all. So I can see how it gets old. I say just keep on making fabulous photos and laugh to the bank at those who call you boring!
Lisa_Holloway wrote:
Yes, I'm sure I look like a total tool now. I get it. I should 'handle the CC' better. The problem here is that the comments saying 'Your work sucks, it's all boring, it all looks the same, it's meaningless' is NOT helpful CC. Helpful CC would be something along the lines of 'your skin tones in image #2 need work', etc. I don't get that from people. It's always the old 'your stuff is boring and looks the same' comments. ALWAYS. So I have an established style that I'm happy with - is that really a bad thing?? I'm not an FPJ photographer - probably never will be. I can appreciate that type of work when done well but it isn't me. I sometimes think that is what these commentators are alluding to - but it's not likely to happen. It's just not my cup of tea. Yes, I realize that I look like an ass now and I should grow a thicker skin. I get it. But please, please refrain from telling me my work is boring and pointless - if that's what you think, I'd appreciate you not even wasting your precious time looking at it. Those types of comments are hurtful and not helpful in any way, shape, or form....Show more →
p.4 #15 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
I've refrained from saying anything, but I'll add my two cents to Lisa right now. When a commenter says your work always looks the same and thus is boring, their opinion is biased and ignorant, in my opinion. It would be like telling Ansel Adams that he should stop taking nature shots, or landscapes, or whatever. That he should start doing fashion. Your work has evolved a lot since we first started seeing your posts here a couple years ago. You've tried new things, even OCF! But in the end, the evolution of your style has been driven by your own personal taste and interests. You weren't doing these interesting composites two years ago, that's part of how your work has changed. It's not the same.
I think my point is that when someone says those things to you, I'd like to see you reach a point that you simply chuckle about it, and totally ignore it. Listen to those offering helpful and constructive C&C, appreciate those offering praise, but turn a blind eye to those who seem to think you need to change to some way that they think you need to change. I don't even understand that. Who are we to tell someone that they should change their ways so they can be more interesting to us (?!), when that photog is now getting her work published on mag covers and has 4 million followers on Facebook.
Why does anyone need to change their style in a way that we (not me, or most of us) think they need to change? Who are we to even think that we know better?
So, Lisa, I just hope you get over this stuff. You can't please everyone, but you come pretty close to it.
p.4 #16 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Thank you, Ron. I feel like a jerk. I do need to grow a thicker skin - I've always struggled with that. I pour my heart and soul into my work so for someone to tell me it is meaningless and boring really hurts. I think that since I know I have a problem dealing with these types of comments, I will need to make use of the ignore feature here. Either way, I will not stop doing what moves me and what I love. I enjoy what I do and make a good living doing it - in the end, that's all that matters.
p.4 #17 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
friscoron wrote:
I've refrained from saying anything, but I'll add my two cents to Lisa right now. When a commenter says your work always looks the same and thus is boring, their opinion is biased and ignorant, in my opinion. It would be like telling Ansel Adams that he should stop taking nature shots, or landscapes, or whatever. That he should start doing fashion. Your work has evolved a lot since we first started seeing your posts here a couple years ago. You've tried new things, even OCF! But in the end, the evolution of your style has been driven by your own personal taste and interests. You weren't doing these interesting composites two years ago, that's part of how your work has changed. It's not the same.
I think my point is that when someone says those things to you, I'd like to see you reach a point that you simply chuckle about it, and totally ignore it. Listen to those offering helpful and constructive C&C, appreciate those offering praise, but turn a blind eye to those who seem to think you need to change to some way that they think you need to change. I don't even understand that. Who are we to tell someone that they should change their ways so they can be more interesting to us (?!), when that photog is now getting her work published on mag covers and has 4 million followers on Facebook.
Why does anyone need to change their style in a way that we (not me, or most of us) think they need to change? Who are we to even think that we know better?
So, Lisa, I just hope you get over this stuff. You can't please everyone, but you come pretty close to it....Show more →
p.4 #18 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Lisa_Holloway wrote:
Yes, I'm sure I look like a total tool now. I get it. I should 'handle the CC' better.
But please, please refrain from telling me my work is boring and pointless - if that's what you think, I'd appreciate you not even wasting your precious time looking at it.
"... not even wasting your precious time looking at it....
No, you don't get it . You're still being passive-aggressive.
Archive 2014 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
